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Zorn List Digest       Thursday, March 15 2001       Volume 03 : Number 340



In this issue:
-
       borbetomagus
       any web site to host discographies?
       new archival Zorn CD
       Peacock
       Re: borbetomagus
       Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: ...exists
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Re: Odp: Religion/Music
       Plea to the Zorn Listers
       Re: Bewitched
       BGuy
       Re: BGuy
       Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers
       Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers
       Re: BGuy
       Re: wanna buy a bridge?
       Re: BGuy
       Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:04:55 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: borbetomagus

Are they still together?  I haven't heard about any new records for a couple of years (or more?).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:41:30 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: any web site to host discographies?

    As many of you know, I am taking care, with a few other persons, of
discographies. These discographies are available at the WNUR web site. Unfor-
tunately, this site has been without an administrator for almost a year. From
what I understand, the site is practically dead since there is no intent to
do any updates (yes, this is the reason why many of them are stale, although
we have never stopped updating our master copies).

    We are facing the decision of having to find another web site where
to put them. Do people know of web sites owned by organizations that could
host these discographies? I would prefer not to use individual web sites
(since their lifetimes are too erratic, and I don't see myself moving
everything to a new site on a 6-month basis).

    Thanks,

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:59:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: new archival Zorn CD

from www.jazz-improvised.de:

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Allelopathy, a japanese independent label which is run by musician Yoshiaki=20
Kinno (Onnyk),already released in 1994 a now out of print and highly sought=20
after CD "To Whom It May Concern"=A0featuring Evan Parker, Barry Guy, Ken=
=B4ich=20
Takeda, Kunio Nakamura and Onnyk himself, is offering now its new CD=20
(released february 2001) distributed in germany exclusively through=20
jazz-improvised

zorn john - frith fred - onnyk - toyozumi yoshisaburo."ars longa dens=20
brevis".jap.allelopathy=20

rec april 2, =B485. john zorn(as,birdcalls), onnyk(as,ss,key), yoshisaburo=20
toyozumi(dr,per) /
=A0=A0 john zorn(solo)(as,birdcalls)=A0 //
=A0=A0 rec december 13, =B487. fred frith(g), onnyk(as,ss,g), yoshisaburo=20
toyozumi(dr,per) /
=A0=A0 fred frith(solo)(g)
=A0=A0 note: limited edition of 500 copies

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:06:11 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Peter=20Marsh?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Peacock

stephen wrote:

>Has anybody heard the recent ECM release by Annette
Peacock (something
with "Acrobat" in the title) and care to opine?<

it's "An Acrobat's Heart'. putting my ego aside, you
might like to have a look at my motion review at
http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/689.html

hope that's of some use

peter



=====
lob - astralpunkfunkambientnoisejazz
http://www.lentils.demon.co.uk
http://www.mp3.com/lobstuff

____________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk
or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:13:56 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: borbetomagus

In a message dated 3/15/01 3:05:50 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Are they still together?  I haven't heard about any new records for a
couple of years (or more?).  >>

I think they're still together; I'm just not sure how interested anyone is
anymore. they've done a couple of shows here in the last few years at Tonic,
solo and with Voice Crack.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:48:48 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Religion/Music

on 3/15/01 6:10 AM, Marcin Gokieli at [e-mail] wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>

>> manifestation of my psyche.  Lack of certainty?  My hand, I know, is
> typing
>> these words, and I have proof that this fantastic computer network works.
> It
>> seems that the physical stuff, we can be pretty certain of that.  Lots of
>> evidence, lots of replication of results.
>
> Well, you do not.

This is just silly.  The earth rotates in a counterclockwise direction.
Winter is colder than summer.  I make a "th" sound by putting the tip of my
tongue between my teeth and then pulling it back as I send air out of my
mouth.  If the moon falls out of the sky and lands on the earth, we'll all
be screwed.  I'm talking about the really obvious and easy shit.

>Of course, it depends on what you take a proof  is (a
> minal requirement for being a proof: to be a proof of *p* must be easier to
> recognize and state then to state *p*. 'Easier' should be read as in
> principle easier). But you can be put in a small network where someone
> prepares all the replies and sends them from various 'accounts' (OK, it's me
> and Patrice who are trying to sell to you some inetenet company and
> therefore need to convince you what a huge thing the internet is...;-)).
> So we do not have proofs for most of the statements we accept. We do
> accept them, however, and we do it on rational grounds (i believing that
> eating eggs in the morning is good for me. I do not have aby proof of ot,
> but my idea is quite rational). And we (ie some of us) reject the existence
> of god for similiar reasons we reject the existence of a big plot that is
> aimed to destruct the world: we do not need it, we do not have intyerest in
> it, etc. No proof, but rational.

If you don't need to believe in "spirits" and you have no interest in it,
then fine.
>
>>> what i heard from strongly
>>> religius people is quite far from oridinary.
>>
>> Could you explain this last statement?
>
> I ment that the religious perspective is something quite strange: the
> reasons for the existence of god offered by people who were seriously
> religious I heard were hardly simliar to what we are discussing here (of
> course i do not mean that you are not a good beleiver).  The most
> interesting case i've heard was that my ideas were based on a strong
> acceptance of my personal ideas, reasons, and beliefs: i take them at the
> start point. And this is not how it should be: the first 'epistemological'
> step should be to accept the bible, and the fact that i should accept what
> is written there (quite catholic...).

I'm with you.  The only test I base my belief on is that I have called upon
"spirits" to work in my life, and on a couple of occasions, they have.  They
succeeded where nothing else I'd tried had.  Delusion?  Maybe.  But if I
depended on the Bible or any other holy book, I'd still be an agnostic.

- --Mike

- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:57:31 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ...exists

on 3/14/01 6:49 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:24:04 -0500 (EST)  Ken Waxman wrote:
>>
>> Ken Waxman
>> (who sometimes has days when he's not sure that he
>> exists)
>
> I testify: Ken exists.
>
> Patrice.
>
> -
>
Today, at least.

- --Mike
- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:54:17 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

on 3/15/01 4:49 AM, Marcin Gokieli at [e-mail] wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 08:33:24PM -0500, Mike Chamberlain wrote:
>>
>>> If there is no God, then there is no downside in not believing in God.
> If
>>> there is a God, then I presume there is a downside to not believing. I
>>> figure I might as well believe....in something. Maybe I'm wrong.
>>
>> Well, what is missing here (and Pascal missed it too) is that it's too
>> simply binary as to whether God does/not exist. It misses the case that
>> a deity exists but is completely different from what we believe. What
>> if there is a God who *rewards* sinners? Those who took Pascal's wager
>> would be in cosiderably worse shape.
>

We are all sinners.  Anyway, in gambling, there is no dead solid perfect
bet.  You have to play the odds.  The chances that there is a malevolent god
I think are not so great.  I think.

> On the other hand, if we decide to really take care of religious
> practices, and god does not exist, we have wasted THE ONLY LIVE WE HAD on
> living according to some restrictions. We wasted all we had.

This only makes sense if the sole reason for your religious practice is to
earn a place in some kind of paradise after death.  If, however, your
spiritual practice is about making yourself a better person (NOT better than
other people, but better than you would be without the spiritual practice),
then it is time well spent, whether there is an afterlife or not.

- --Mike

- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:14:11 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

The main objective behind religion
is to provide those who would be
overwhelmed by a genuine and
immediate spiritual experience
with something to believe in, or
not believe in, instead.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:16:21 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

on 3/15/01 4:54 PM, Mike Chamberlain at [e-mail] mewled endlessly:

> The chances that there is a malevolent god
> I think are not so great.  I think.

One of my favorite quotes has it that in order to posit a god that makes any
sense at all, the god would have to be 100% malevolent, and only 90%
successful.

I think that's right on the mark, human existence being the trail of tears
that it is...

lighting up our days,
RL

 ----------
Sessionographies:
~~~   CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.
Discographies:
~~~  COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI,; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Also:
 --Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things
 --Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--The Interview--ETC.

all at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

WHERE THE HELL HAVE I BEEN??? :
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/LUCILLE/splash.html



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:49:01 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:16:21 -0500  Rick Lopez wrote:
>
> on 3/15/01 4:54 PM, Mike Chamberlain at [e-mail] mewled endlessly:
>
> > The chances that there is a malevolent god
> > I think are not so great.  I think.
>
> One of my favorite quotes has it that in order to posit a god that makes any
> sense at all, the god would have to be 100% malevolent, and only 90%
> successful.

My favorite statement on the topic by Steven Weinberg:

  "Remembrance of the Holocaust leaves me unsympathetic to attempts to justify
  the ways of God to man. If there is a God that has special plans for humans,
  then He has taken very great pains to hide His concern for us. To me it
  would seem impolite if not impious to bother such a God with our prayers."

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:54:10 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

>>>One of my favorite quotes
has it that in order to posit
a god that makes any sense
at all, the god would have to
be 100% malevolent, and only
90% successful.<<<

Some call this god, the demiurge.

Carlos Santana calls him Abraxas.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:17:36 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

on 3/15/01 5:16 PM, Rick Lopez at [e-mail] wrote:

> on 3/15/01 4:54 PM, Mike Chamberlain at [e-mail] mewled endlessly:

>
> One of my favorite quotes has it that in order to posit a god that makes any
> sense at all, the god would have to be 100% malevolent, and only 90%
> successful.
>
> I think that's right on the mark, human existence being the trail of tears
> that it is...
>
> lighting up our days,
> RL

We make plans, and God laughs.
>

- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:38:54 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Religion/Music

on 3/15/01 5:49 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:16:21 -0500  Rick Lopez wrote:

>> One of my favorite quotes has it that in order to posit a god that makes any
>> sense at all, the god would have to be 100% malevolent, and only 90%
>> successful.
>
> My favorite statement on the topic by Steven Weinberg:
>
> "Remembrance of the Holocaust leaves me unsympathetic to attempts to justify
> the ways of God to man. If there is a God that has special plans for humans,
> then He has taken very great pains to hide His concern for us. To me it
> would seem impolite if not impious to bother such a God with our prayers."
>

We all die, right?  That's the only guarantee.  How or when we die would
seem to me to be of little account to a deity.  The question then is, why
did the Nazis do it?  Couldn't have been lack of spiritual fitness on their
part, could it?

- --Mike
- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:53:40 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Plea to the Zorn Listers

Hi All,

In the unlikely event that we start to talk about politics on the list,
please put me in your kill files until the thread has run out--those of you
who haven't done it already, that is.

BTW, who's going to Victo?

- --Mike (Finally, finally, religion-talked out)


- --



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:01:29 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bewitched

> >me too, but not covers that destroy the song completely.
>
> ok, what about, say.....Marc Ribot's versions of "Wind Cries Mary" or
> "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"?

I can't really remember those versions, but I think I've at least heard them
a few times. I think it really comes down to mood/emotion. The originals had
a lot of heart to them, and so do Ribot's versions (from memory). Hammond's
versions of Waits just seem to miss the point...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:08:15 -0500
From: "Ryan W. Blum" <[e-mail]>
Subject: BGuy

Curious what recordings I should get to be introduced to Barry Guy... A
cursory search on Amazon doesn't bring up much, and the impression I get is
that he's a prolific monster.

BTW, is Forced Exposure an actual store or just a mail order place? If it
exists, I should make a pilgrimage there through the snow this weekend...

Thanks,
Ryan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:08:20 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: BGuy

Ryan W. Blum wrote:
>
> Curious what recordings I should get to be introduced to Barry Guy... A
> cursory search on Amazon doesn't bring up much, and the impression I get is
> that he's a prolific monster.

Most anything, but I love the LJCO stuff the best. 'Harmos', 'Theoria',
Double Trouble Two', all just superb, imho. The new tentet release,
"Inscape-Tableaux" is in my early running for record of the year.

Brian Olewnick

NP - Cardew - Treatise

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:09:52 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers

Mike Chamberlain wrote:
>
> Hi All,

> BTW, who's going to Victo?

Me.  See ya there.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:42:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers

In a message dated 3/15/01 7:54:51 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< BTW, who's going to Victo? >>

unfortunately, I'm going to miss my second straight Victo, even though the
program looks much better this year than last. after my two day festival at
Tonic earlier that week, I'm flying to Bologna to see the MIMEO/John Tilbury
show on 5/20. for those of you who'd like to be there but can't, it will most
likely be an Erstwhile release in early 2002, barring any unforeseen problems.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:47:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: BGuy

In a message dated 3/15/01 8:09:09 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Curious what recordings I should get to be introduced to Barry Guy... A
cursory search on Amazon doesn't bring up much, and the impression I get is
that he's a prolific monster.>>

Brian's LJCO recommendations are good if you're interested in Guy's composing
skills, but I'd suggest a smaller group setting to hear his playing, maybe
Obliquities, a duo disc with Evan Parker on Maya. there's a full discography
at:

www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mguy.html

<<BTW, is Forced Exposure an actual store or just a mail order place? If it
exists, I should make a pilgrimage there through the snow this weekend... >>

I don't think it's an actual store, sorry. Other Music, which recently opened
a store in Cambridge, pretty much stocks everything that FE carries, at least
in the NYC store.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:06:38 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanna buy a bridge?

skip heller

> Did this Rough Trade compilation ever appear on CD?  Looking at that Rough
> Trade box set made me think of this.  Back when RT had a US mail order
> business I used to get their catalogs filled with all this mysterious stuff,
> especially for somebody from a small town in Alabama.  The compilation looked
> like a good way to find out who these people were which it not only did but
> remained a favorite for years even after I'd heard entire albums by most of
> the musicians.
>
> -
>
either world domination or razor & tie put this out on cd a few yrs back.
in print now? who knows?

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:43:12 -0500
From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: BGuy

Speaking of Guy, does anyone have any words on his duet with Maya Homburger
titled 'Ceremony'?

Nirav
- --
AIM: Icefactory37
OnNow- Micro-East Collective- Out of My Face
"And when, alas! our brains are gone/what nobler substitute than wine?" -
Lord Byron, "Lines Inscribed Upon a Cup Formed From a Skull"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 23:22:41 -0500
From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Plea to the Zorn Listers

Hello,

>BTW, who's going to Victo?

Talking of Victo... Anybody knows who's playing when? They had told me it
would be avaialble on March 13th, but still nothing. I know of a few, but not
enough to plan if I'll stay there or drive back to Montreal a few days and
all these pragmatic details! Any info would be nice.

Thank you,

Mathieu


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #340
*******************************


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