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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, January 10 2001      Volume 03 : Number 238



In this issue:
-
       Re: shows in vt or nh?
       Re: Burn the Smithsonian as well...
       Re: Ken Burns
       Re: (no zorn content) Wolfi
       re: thurston moore improv
       Re: Ken Burns
       efzeg live on the web
       marsalis as historian
       Re: Two things I do not understand (Bailey, Moore)
       Re: marsalis as hysterian
       Re: Two things I do not understand (Bailey, Moore)
       Burns, Marsalis, and etc

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 19:10:34 -0500
From: Otis Wheeler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: shows in vt or nh?

>I recently moved to vt, any advice on venues and musicians? Burlington
>is my first bet, or nothampton. Two weeks out of nyc and I am itching
>to see some live groups. Thanks in advance.

Flywheel (http://www.flywheelarts.org/), ten minutes outside of
Northampton, schedules some good shows from time to time, especially
in their New Music series. Artists I've seen play there include Kevin
Drumm, Major Stars, High Rise, Volcano the Bear, Paul Flaherty, and
Nmperign (in fact, Bhob Rainey is playing there in Feb).

Michael Ehlers runs Eremite Records in Northampton and heads the
Conway New Music Society, which puts on ecstatic-jazz and more
out-there shows at a church in Amherst. I wish the performances were
more regular, but I shouldn't complain about a venue which has hosted
Loren Mazzacane Connors, NNCK, and 3/8ths of the original Peter
Brotzmann Octet (separately, of course). Check Eremite's page for
info (http://www.eremite.com/). Brotzmann's Die Like A Dog Trio is
actually touring in April, I'm sure they'll play Burlington and
Amherst.

Godfigure Byron Coley, he of Forced Exposure and Ecstatic Peace fame,
lives in the area and occasionally hosts ungodly good concerts
(Stefan Jaworzyn, Pelt, Six Organs of Admittance, etc.) at his loft
in Florence, a couple minutes outside Northampton, at which you will
invariably run into people like the girls in Sleater-Kinney or
Thurston Moore (but then, you'll run into Thurston no matter where
you go, especially since he and Kim live in Noho). The concerts are
rare and hardly publicized; emailing Coley and asking to be put on
the mailing list is probably your best bet. Coley's Ecstatic Yod
store (http://www.yod.com/) is in that same building in Florence and
definitely worth checking out for tasty avant-garde flotsam.

As far as local musicians, Chris Corsano, who works at Coley's store,
is a great up-and-coming drummer. I've seen him put on dandy shows
with Paul Flaherty and Matt Heyner, among others. Ben Karetnick of
Greenfield or Brattleboro (I forget) is another ace free-jazz
drummer, who I've seen play with Joe McPhee and Sabir Mateen. Joshua
Burkett is a nice gent who works at Mystery Train in Amherst and is
definitely worth hearing if you have a chance, he plays at Coley's
store sometimes - great fragile bedroom psych. Yusef Lateef and
Milford Graves both teach at local colleges, but enrolling in their
classes is really your only chance at hearing them play, as they
don't get out much.

The Hooker-Dunham gallery in Brattleboro is worth watching for the
occasional avant-garde concert or theatre project. Also notable for
being the greatest cellarhole venue I've ever seen, with good gallery
walks and cheap b-movies. Pearl St., the Iron Horse, and the Calvin
are all owned by the same guy, who holds fascistic reign over the
Northampton scene, but at least they schedule decent big-name acts
time to time. Frank Black will be at the Iron Horse this Saturday.
The Higher Ground (http://www.highergroundmusic.com/), just outside
Burlington, gets a lot of the same acts as Pearl St. and the Iron
Horse. Signal to Noise magazine
(http://www.signaltonoisemagazine.org/) is run out of Burlington and
in addition to being a decent rag covering improv, experimental, and
roots shit, holds its own concert series.

Otis

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:32:07 -0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Burn the Smithsonian as well...

>From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>

>Yes, it's brilliant in what it chooses to cover, especially the early
>stuff.
>It's a valuable tool and the basis of most beginning jazz history courses.
>But
>remember that when the set was updated for CD in 1991, it suffered from
>exactly
>the same problem that has marred Burns' gameplan: an intentional myopia
>about
>contemporary musical trends since Coltrane, Ornette and Taylor.

Well, I basically agree with you Steve with a few qualifications.  As I
recall, the Smithsonian referred to the period it covered "classic jazz."  I
took this to mean, or perhaps, one could take this to mean a "classical
period" in jazz, which is to say, prior to the "modern" period.  Unlike Mr.
Burns, it did not suggest in such a phrase an exhaustive account.  And
unlike the CD tie-ins to this series, the Smithsonian was quite thorough in
its coverage of particular artists--multiple LP boxes.  What the Smithsonian
series suffered from was the tendentious view of the history associated with
its advisor Martin Williams, who nonetheless is a capable and important
scholar of the music.  Certainly, he's a lot smarter than either Burns or
Marsalis, though his bias against fusion was one of his limitations.

That Marsalis is so prominently featured in Burn's series suggests both the
marketing intent of this particular "history" and the bad ideological
construct of the narrative.  The "Wyntonization" of jazz and of "Jazz" has
grooved all too nicely with capital process and a calcification of the
music, one that would elide its more progressive and challenging elements
and its radical fringes.  Burn's account and Marsalis' ideology are just
nostalgia masquerading as aesthetic certitude and being sold rather easily
to a maudlin middle-class quick to grab Walmart packaging.  Wynton is the
"Walmartization" of jazz, and Ken Burns is the librarian of this
well-scrubbed storehouse.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 23:01:03 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Burns

>Sigh, here we go. Yes history is still being written
>and rewritten and altered. But it doesn't change the
>fact that Burns encapsulated 40 years of jazz history
>-- i.e. 2/5 ths of its existence into his final
>program.

I have a belief that there are some fundamental reasons why popular
forms of music are more popular and that is that they appeal to a
larger audience.  I don't like it but Britney Spears is immensely
popular.  I have a gut feeling that it can't be wholly a result of
the Britney marketing machine and boob job.  There are some things
that are just more important to Ken Burns, Wynton, and other folks.
We on this email list are in a minority and when we say "how can one
not include Weather Report" (or another influential "jazz" group that
existed after 1970) many people can think of a lot of reasons why
not.  I'm not saying they're right but I am not saying that they're
wrong either.  If it wasn't for Armstrong, Ellington, and some of the
others mentioned in the first two episodes, there may not exist the
"jazz" that we have today and without jazz as it is we may not have
Zorn as he is now.  It is interesting to talk about the origins and
history of an art form.  I also believe that it's interesting to talk
about where things are today.  But I would bet that my parents would
be more interested in the jazz story Ken tells than they would be in
Zorn or Ornette.  Is the film only for people like my parents and not
for us?  No.  I have already learned something and I bet most of us
have/would too.  Would I like there to be extensive coverage of
Berne, Frisell, Jarrett, Corea, Zorn, etc.?  Yes.  Someone ought to
make a film.  It took me  along time to get into even Frisell's
music.  At first I didn't like it at all.  I bought and sold Bitches
Brew because I didn't like it at all and found I had to buy it again.
Things aren't extremely popular because they aren't accessible to a
large audience.  And perhaps that may be a metric for wheat to
include and what not to include in the film.

>If half the money and publicity that is going into the
>series went to a living jazz musician ...

We'd have ONE well funded musician.

Dan Hewins

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:04:32 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (no zorn content) Wolfi

>From: perdida  <[e-mail]>

>Subject: (no zorn content) Woelfli and Cronenburg

>I've finally exhausted all my leads to find two CDs:  Necropolis,
>Amphibians and Insects (music composed by Adolphe Woelfli but possibly
>performed by SPK...

The CD is called 'Musique Brut Collection' and combines 2 LPs originally
released separately: 'The Insect Musicians' & 'Necropolis, Amphibians &
Reptiles'. The music is 'performed' by Graeme Revell(the mainstay in SPK),
in the case of 'The Insect Musicians' he has taken insect sounds and sampled
them through the Fairlight computer, in the case of Adolf Wolfi's music, he
gives little indication of instrumentation, other than to indicate that
violin is featured on one piece (I think the Fairlight was used for these
recordings as well). There is a spoken piece 'Allgebrah', done by Matthias
Boehm in (Swiss?) German. Comes in a slipcase with a nifty booklet,
interesting info about Wolfi. It was put out in 1994 by Mute Records. If you
have no luck finding it, contact me offlist...

Peace Out!
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:36:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: thurston moore improv

david keffer escrito:

Has anyone ever heard a good Thurston Moore improv album?

i reply:

i only have one: 'the promise', thurston moore/evan parker/walter prati,
materiali sonori MASO CD 90106. i like this one, perhaps because of the
presence of prati, whose computer processing lends the proceedings a
distinctly 'evan parker electroacoustic ensemble' sound.  moore's guitar
gives the music a sort of punkish sound by virtue of his distorted guitar.
the last time i listened to it, i decided it started out sort of weak (or
perhaps 'standard-prati-manipulates-parker' with moore adding not much by
way of his guitar), but then developed into distinctly new territory,
blending moore's low-brow american-punk guitar with prati and parker's
academic euro-noise.  fun stuff.  i haven't been moved to look into any
other of moore's improv, as it isn't necessarily moore who makes the album
work for me - it's the three of them together.

right, then.  that's that.

claythorps,
whit



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 20:49:57 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ken Burns

>>>Things aren't extremely popular because they aren't accessible to a
large audience.<<<

That's why I just want to fall on my knees in gratitude when I sit
with 30 or 40 people in one of the largest cities in the world and
watch and listen to the likes of Cecil Taylor.

Sure beats seeing him at the Staples Center.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 22:50:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: efzeg live on the web

I ran across this on another list and thought it might
be of interest; hope this isn't redundant.

- ----s

>From: "n0!s" <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: [chi-improv] efzeg
>Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2001 09:48:47 +0100
>
>efzeg impft rhiz  (josefstΣdter gⁿrtel)
>
>hauf.13.roisz.siewert.stangl
>
>sunday 14.1.01
>
>be there.
>or.
>watch life web-stream @ http://www.rhiz.org
>vienna - 21h
>jarkarta - 3 am
>bay area - noon
>chicago - 2pm
>ny - 3pm
>london - 8pm
>
>http://www.sil.at/hauf
>HTTP://dieb13.klingt.org/
>http://www.klingt.org/gnu/
>http://www.charhizma.com/comforts/siewert.html
>http://www.durian.at/scripts/duriart.cgi?index=11
>http://www.durian.at
>
>
>"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
>                       ....George W. Bush, Jr.
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online!
http://photos.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 09:46:35 -0800
From: "Martin Wisckol" <[e-mail]>
Subject: marsalis as historian

thought the second episode was much better, thorough, informative. i found
the bit on paul whiteman enlightening, and i was delighted to learn of
james reece europe, who i'd never heard of before.

someone said something to the effect of marsalis "acting like a
historian." IMHO, he's pretty darn good historian acting like a musician.
i enjoy his bits when he picks up the horn.

martin


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:33:17 -0500
From: "Joslyn Layne" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Two things I do not understand (Bailey, Moore)

- ------
"Recently read the blurb on the new Christian Marclay, Thurston Moore, and
Lee Ranaldo cd, "Fuck Shit Up" on Victo..."
- ------
    I was at this show, too, and was bored silly and pissed off that the Victo
festival ended on such a self-indulgent note (and this, keeping in mind the
higher self-indulgence tolerance level that need accompany the usually
interesting FIMAV). especially disappointing when you consider some of the
really excellent - or at least intriguing - concerts that year, including
the Brotzmann Tentet's performance.
    i could not recommend a recording of the Marclay/Moore/Ranaldo concert
considering there are so many really interesting records out there, by these
3 as well.
    i'm also interested to hear what Patrice and Brian thought of the Fatima
Miranda show (wasn't that the same year?)?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 20:03:56 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: marsalis as hysterian

>someone said something to the effect of marsalis "acting like a
>historian." IMHO, he's pretty darn good historian acting like a musician.

Beware! Marsalis is trying to rewrite the history of jazz to suit his own
needs and retro tastes...perhaps that is why this series spends so little
time on the revolutionary developments in jazz from the '60s on...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:45:36 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Two things I do not understand (Bailey, Moore)

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:33:17 -0500  "Joslyn Layne" wrote:
>
>     i'm also interested to hear what Patrice and Brian thought of the
> Fatima Miranda show (wasn't that the same year?)?

I was not too crazy about it. It was quite theatrical and, in my opinion, did
not fit too well the spirit of the festival. She is definitely an amazing
singer and she has a strong presence. It is just that, past the first 10 mn,
the emphasis moved away from music to theatrical performance. In short, you
do not go to Victo to listen to artists like Fatima.

Every year, Victo has an opening show (or almost opening) which I assume is
intended to please the officials/sponsors. In 1998, it was "Riel" by
Guilbeault (a grand spectacle for the whole family, with joy and tears,
including singing a la Celine Dion). In 1999, I thought it was Fatima. Last
year, it was Paul Cram (sp?). It is almost like a bad pill to take, but
you feel much better after :-). That may be why some people seem to skip the
first day.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:55:19 -0800
From: Reuben Radding <[e-mail]>
Subject: Burns, Marsalis, and etc

Ten years ago I would have been just as critical as the rest of you when it
comes to the assumed exclusion of recent Jazz and improvised music in Ken
Burns' PBS documentary. Today I really don't see what the big deal is.
Burns' previous documentary, BASEBALL, could be criticized for the same
greater attention to the past than the present, and yet any fan can easily
admit that his documentation of the history or "golden era" of that sport
was phenomenal. If the first two installments of JAZZ are typical of what
follows it looks like this piece will be more of the same, and I welcome it.

So far, many things have impressed me:  the photos, the music, the sense of
culture, the willingness to recognize the white contributions to the
artform, the accurate representation of the spread of Jazz to Chicago and
New York, and the cultural migrations associated with it...this is a good
thing. Of course there is nostalgia and a retrocentric attitude at work. So
what? The resentment being thrown at Burns and Marsalis strikes me as sour
grapes.

Creative music or the avant garde is played with different criteria from
so-called Jazz. There is Jazz in it, but also elements of many other
musics, more and more all the time. What gives us the right any more than
Wynton to claim to be the "real" manifestation of the creative spirit of
Jazz? I say let them have Jazz. The cultural concensus is clear, and Jazz
is the property of the retrocentric replicators. I have grown to feel that
we (creative musicians) are better off thinking of ourselves as the modern
manifestation of the avant garde tradition, not the so-called Jazz tradition.

What is to be gained from claiming to be Jazz? Legitimacy? Audience?
Setting the record straight? With all the Rock sensibilities in creative
music, and the european experimental elements, Cagean constructs, world
folk music, and the myriad other things now sometimes even overpowering
the  contributuions of the Free Jazz 60's and 70's, how do we judge
ourselves as being more legitimately Jazz than we are avant garde or folk,
or whatever?

But really, what is the point? The argument over what is Jazz, or real
Jazz, or not Jazz is an old tired one that never had much relevance anyway!
The arguments of 70 years ago about Swing vs. Jazz were dumb then and they
didn't get any smarter when the argument changed to questioning "Does Bebop
Swing?" or "Is Free Jazz still Jazz?" Does the swing eighth-note define
Jazz as a genre? We need questions and arguments that are more relevant to
the proccess of how our music is made and presented. Just because it's
often improvised and sometimes uses Jazz instruments isn't good enough for
me anymore.

Is Wynton's music Jazz?
Are there non-Jazz influences in early Jazz?
If so, do our non-Jazz influences make us something else, or are we also Jazz?
If the so-called Jazz establishment thinks we aren't Jazz, or aren't
important, is there another history        that is more relevant to us?
Is Wynton's music avant garde?
Are there so-called straight-ahead Jazz musicians who display an influence
by the avant garde?
Would we include them in a history of our tradition?
Where does our tradition begin? With Ornette? Coltrane? Ellington? Cage?
Stravinsky? Schoenberg?     Bach? Ancient China or India?
Isn't our tradition both older than Jazz as well as parallel to it?

We love unchanged folk traditions and consider them seperate from modern
fusions of same, but     Jazz, we seem to think, needs to be unified? Why?
Is Hip Hop music funk? Is it Rock? If a Hip Hop group uses Rock elements is
it a part of Rock?
If a Hip Hop group uses Jazz elements is it part of Jazz? Who decides?
What's in it for whom?

What are we trying to do?
Are we trying to do something different?
Are we trying to do something new?
Or are we satisfied with the old?
Do we love the old for what it is and want to continue on from it? Or do we
wish to destroy the past to     make a future? Do we fear the future without
it? Do we know what to call our future if we     cannot call it Jazz?
Why should we?

- -Reuben Radding, bass
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #238
*******************************


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