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Zorn List Digest       Monday, October 30 2000       Volume 03 : Number 147



In this issue:
-
       Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content...
       Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine
       Re: Ruiz/Godard
       ~~~~~~> GYBE
       Re: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine
       Re: Sigur Ros
       Re: the truth of deconstruction
       Re: the truth of deconstruction
       RE: the truth of deconstruction
       Re: the truth of deconstruction
       Re: favourite soundtracks
       Re: ~~~~~~> GYBE
       Re: Ruiz/Godard
       Re: SCHRADER and SMITH
       Re: favourite soundtracks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:18:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Harry Browne/Libertarian candidate - no Zorn content...

Gee,

I woulda thought 1984 would been your key date.

Ken Waxman
- --- Jeffrey Zima <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I can't believe it !! another libertarian -
> card-carrying member since 1994.
> "Z"


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:05:47 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine

Seeking opinions on Evan Parker's recordings with a supposedly
electroacoustic ensemble called Ghost in the Machine.  How does this
compare with his EA Ensemble recordings on ECM?


- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:32:18 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Joseph Neff)
Subject: Re: Ruiz/Godard

Hello,
         ...I'll agree with Lang Thompson that it is impossible to
imagine Godard adapting Proust. JLG's "King Lear" is probably the best
example of what the guy can do to completely disconnect from the subject
matter/theme of an already existing artwork (though "First Name: Carmen"
also applies). "King Lear" completely abandons narrative in it's
"storytelling" about JLG's difficulties in making the movie. This theme
mingles with his original idea of "King Lear" in modern times with
William Shakespeare Jr. the Fifth struggling to interpret the original
work. It's a difficult, rewarding work that has become one of my
favorites. I'd also venture to say that it's the most avant-garde
oriented film to have anything resembling a star cast. Burgess Merideth,
Molly Ringwald, Woody Allen. If you get a chance, definitely see it.

      ...Ruiz's "Genealogies of a Crime" is playing a few times this
month on the Sundance Channel if anyone's interested. I am.
      ...my favorite Godard quote is from "Le Petit Soldat"
"Photography is truth, and cinema is truth twenty-four ties a second"

np: Phi Ochs "The War is Over. The Best of..."
nr: Drawn and Quarterly Vol. 3"

I remain....

Joseph

"There's no boundary line to art"   Charlie Parker


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:41:12 +0100
From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ~~~~~~> GYBE

Ok, I napstered, now tell me the story. What has GYBE to do with Pink Floyd
:) ?

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Mathieu
|
|I still prefer gybe! but that's another story...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 14:08:55 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Evan Parker & Ghost in the Machine

In a message dated 10/29/00 12:03:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Seeking opinions on Evan Parker's recordings with a supposedly
electroacoustic ensemble called Ghost in the Machine.  How does this
compare with his EA Ensemble recordings on ECM? >>

there are two CDs, I have the first on Leo Lab, not the newer one on Ninth
World. Ghost In the Machine is a Danish quartet, primarily piano, bass,
drums, and electronics. the electronics are supplied by Martin Klapper, who
has a superb duo CD on Acta with Roger Turner, which I'd recommend over this
disc, which is cool, but not essential.

how does it compare to the Parker ECM discs? well, it's not Parker's group,
he's just sitting in with an established band (together since 1987). also,
there's no live processing, which is what the ECM CDs are all about. oh, and
it's not rendered much less listenable by a production ethos which smooths
out all the rough edges.

whoever recommended the new Howard Riley reissue on Emanem, Synopsis (John
Thomas and Steve Koenig, if I recall correctly), thanks! a really, really
nice record, the best thing I've heard from Emanem in quite some time.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 20:14:10 -0000
From: "Alastair Wilson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sigur Ros

> >I recommend their latest album "agaetis byrjun" , which has not long been
> >released in England,
>
> Wasn't it released on August 14th?


Time flies, etc....

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:09:32 GMT
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction

>Subject: the truth of deconstruction

>The Truths of Deconstruction: A Zorn-curated festival at Tonic (107 Norfolk
>St. NY  212-358-7501 - but you know that) somehow connected to the work of
>Jacques Derrida (Mr. Deconstrution to you)

Hi, I'm new to the list, and have just started getting into the music of
John Zorn thru his connection with Bill Laswell, whom I feel is one of the
most important artists in contemporary music. So I was wondering if this
festival and the work of Derrida were somehow connected to Laswell's
deconstruction projects (Panthalassa, Lost In The Translation, Emerald
Aether). Also I have heard rumors that Laswell will next be doing a trilogy
of Zorn deconstructions, using the music of Naked City, Filmworks, and
Masada as the sources. Anyone else know anything about this?

Peace Out!

Tom

NP: Bill Laswell 'Panthalassa'



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 19:25:07 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction

>festival and the work of Derrida were somehow connected to Laswell's
>deconstruction projects (Panthalassa, Lost In The Translation, Emerald

Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians.
Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man, etc) doesn't
translate to music.  It relies too much on actual language, a deferral of
meaning and a speech/writing dichotomy.  This is even more confused by the
number of people who have poorly understood any of this but insist on
applying it anyway (for example, DJ Spooky's weak grasp of philosophy).
The best way to get into it would be Derrida's "Writing and Difference"
(and "Acts of Literature" for more literary form) along with Jonathan
Culler's book as a gloss.  And it takes a long time to grasp even the
fundamentals, esp if you're not coming from a philosophy background.

LT

- -------------------------------------------
Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Documentary Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:53:40 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the truth of deconstruction

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Lang Thompson
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 4:25 PM

> Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians.
> Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man,
> etc) doesn't
> translate to music.

Nonetheless, the liner notes to "Aporias" sound awfully close to Derrida's
book of the same name -- death as the possibility of impossibility, and
Zorn's creative force somehow bridging that impasse. In any case I wouldn't
doubt that Zorn *does* understand deconstruction -- at least not in the same
way as Woody Allen does in "Deconstructing Harry." =)

Later,
Ben

np: bach, "the well-tempered clavier book 2" (gould)

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:25:02 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the truth of deconstruction

>From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>

>Don't be misled by the word or even by any claims by the musicians.
>Deconstruction in the philosophical sense (ie Derrida, De Man, etc) doesn't
>translate to music.

Not to digress too much on this topic, but Derrida was never opposed to
seeing his work applied to other forms, including art, and he was much
interested in the cultural reception of "deconstruction" as such, a term
that was not in any way foregrounded in his first book but was rather
privileged by later critics.

>It relies too much on actual language, a deferral of
>meaning and a speech/writing dichotomy.

Derrida never "dichotomized" speech and writing as such.  He saw writing as
primary and as setting the conditions of possibility for speech.

>This is even more confused by the
>number of people who have poorly understood any of this but insist on
>applying it anyway (for example, DJ Spooky's weak grasp of philosophy).

Well, I would say that Spooky has embraced Deleuze much more than Derrida.
A good cult/critic would take Spooky to task for appropriating a certain
kind of philosophical rhetoric as a legitimizing rhetoric for his own art,
raising the status of his art by such an appropriation.  And the same
criticism could be leveled against Laswell, Zorn, and the Mille Plateaux
artists especially.  On the other hand, a good cult/critic would also see
such appropriation as a necessary integration of diverse areas in order to
enter the question of modernity.  Spooky is certainly no Derrida, but he's
no slouch either, and his interview with Manuel De Landa was rather
compelling IMO.  As for Laswell, the seeing of his remixing projects as
deconstructive was rather in the spirit of Derrida's particular and
idiosyncratic readings of the history of philosophy.  On the other hand,
Laswell's appropriation of vacuous "Burroughsisms" (and I don't mean to
suggest that I find Burroughs vacuous) is perhaps the most unfortunate fact
of his self-publicity.

>The best way to get into it would be Derrida's "Writing and Difference"
>(and "Acts of Literature" for more literary form) along with Jonathan
>Culler's book as a gloss.  And it takes a long time to grasp even the
>fundamentals, esp if you're not coming from a philosophy background.

Well, deconstruction has no "fundamentals" as such, nor is it a procedure or
a method as Derrida has written constantly.  And it isn't as
incomprehensible or impossible to understand as many say.  I'd say the best
road would be Derrida himself, as in "Points," a collection of interviews.
His piece on the tape recorder is brilliant, and his castigation of the NY
Review of Books is a stellar exercise in what Christopher Norris would call
"tu quoc polemics." (BTW Norris is a much better secondary source than
Culler).

BTW I very much enjoyed and appreciated you explanations of various aspects
of film aesthetics.  Quite interesting.

Oh and any poststructuralist worth his or her salt would never associate
deconstruction with a grand conception of "the truth" as implied by the
title of the performance in question.  Only with certain "truths,"
manufactured though they are.
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 04:42:17 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks

>From: Matt Laferty <[e-mail]>
>Eating in an Indian restaraunt about 6 or 7 years ago, the music was
>uncontrollably happy (compared to the Indian classical music I was used to)
>and when I asked the owner what it was, he pulled out an unmarked tape.  He
>said it was some old film soundtrack. He wouldn't give or sell it to me,
>but
>he sent me ACROSS THE STREET to an Indian grocery store.

Good choice.  Indian cinema soundtracks are hilarious but not nearly as
funny as watching them being performed in the films.  The kitsch is the most
redeeming "quality" of Bollywood cinema.  Yes, "uncontrollably happy," an
apropos phrase.
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:55:10 -0500
From: Mathieu Belanger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ~~~~~~> GYBE

Hello,

>Ok, I napstered, now tell me the story. What has GYBE to do with Pink Floyd
>:) ?

It depends on who you ask... Personally, I don't see a lot of similarities.
Of course, both bands play (usually) long songs that are instrumental (mainly
for Pink Floyd). Also, both bands put the music in the front and not the
image of the members. However, gybe! has taken the concept further by
according very few interviews: less than 20(?) in the last two years for a
band who toured three times both in Europe and in North America during this
period, maybe even four in Europe, I can't remembe exactly...

A few weeks ago, I introduced a frind of mine to the band. He listened to it
and saw a lot of similarities with _Wish Your Were Here_. Also, I've heard
that the chord progression in "Blaise Bailey Finnegan III" was quite similar
to the one in "Welcome to the Machine". I don't remember this last one so I
really can't say...

On the other hand, gybe! music is much more powerful. Some members have a
punk background and you can feel it, not really hear it though.  Their music
is more based on raw emotions. There is also a social conotation that comes
from their titles, the projections during their live shows and their politic/
social opinions they often state. In fact, they almost caused a riot during
their last show in Ireland because the way security was arrassing kids
sitting between the stage and the barrier. A few days ago in Vancouver, they
clearly stated that they were not aware that the audiance would be frisked by
the secutiry before entering the venue and this would have nver happened if
they had knew itbefore. These are definitely examples of how they reject
auority when it deals with repression, etc. They also care alot about the
prices they have to charged. Last March, they played three benefit shows in a
very small venue (300 persons) in Montreal called L'X. Believe it or not, the
price was 5$ per tickets... and this is Canadian dollars! Very few bands of
this status would ask 5$ for a show... They alsums are not so expensive also;
I paid 16$ for _lift your skinny fists like antennas to heavden_, their
recent double LP. If my memory serves me right, Pink Floyd tickets were not
less than 40$ last tme they came in Montreal. Of course, the venue was bigger
and they carry a lot of "visuals", but still...

Thanks for reading,

Mathieu


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 22:15:16 -0800
From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ruiz/Godard

Joseph Neff wrote:
>
>       ...my favorite Godard quote is from "Le Petit Soldat"
> "Photography is truth, and cinema is truth twenty-four ties a second"

Which of course reminds me of Jim McBride's _David Holzman's Diary_, which takes
that line as a spoken epigraph and then proceeds to demonstrate that it is also
a lie, twenty-four times a second.

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

      "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has
       to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong."
                                                          -- Jaxon
np: Company Flow, _Funcrusherplus_
nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps_

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 23:06:47 -0800
From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SCHRADER and SMITH

Philippe Dupuis wrote:
>
> i must agree that the MISHIMA music is really good. what is the film
> about and how good is SHRADER (sp?) i've only seen AFFLICTION and
> thought it was pretty good.

Usually at least watchable (except for the execrable _Hardcore_) and often
brilliant. _Mishima_ is one of his best.

> what kind of music is used in HEAVEN & EARTH MAGIC?
> does anyone have it out there, i've been looking for it with no luck.

It's available (NTSC only) from Mystic Fire Video (http://www.mysticfire.com/ --
click on the Catalog and then on Film; just going to "Harry Smith" only brings
up _Early Abstractions_ (also essential I might add) for some reason).

The soundtrack is not really "music" (well, perhaps by some definitions); it's
more a collection of sound effects which are combined and recombined according
to, um, Harry's process, in the same manner as the cutouts.

One of my personal top ten films; impossible to consider the soundtrack
separately.

(The films on the _Early Abstractions_ tape are accompanied by a fairly sleepy
piece by Teiji Ito, btw (i usually turn the sound down & choose something else);
16mm prints from the early 70s have a butt-spliced collection of beatles songs;
when he was resident at Naropa during his last years he would sometimes project
them accompanied by a Butthole Surfers record, just to demonstrate that at
*some* point, *anything* would make some sort of synchrony with the images.)

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

      "The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has
       to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong."
                                                          -- Jaxon
np: Current 93, _Faust_
nr: Charles Williams, _The Greater Trumps

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:24:08 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: favourite soundtracks

>Fargo - Carter Burwell

Is it just me, or does some of this sound remarkable similiar to the song
which Naked City used to cover, from a Japanese gangster movie called
"Graveyard of the Brotherhood"?
I'd be surprise if Burwell knew about that music, but still the melody is
almost the same.

ARTHUR_G
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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #147
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