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2000-10-17
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #120
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, October 18 2000 Volume 03 : Number 120
In this issue:
-
RE: AMM
Re: AMM
Re: Delerue's "Contempt"
Re: What is the worst Zorn release
Re: AMM
Re: AMM
absinthe live? (was: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?)
Masada
Crush
Odp: Zero Masada would be enough
Re: unheard music
Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
Re: merkin masada (long)
Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
Re: Zero Masada would be enough
chris speed
Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
answer to several threads...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:17:31 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
Subject: RE: AMM
>That sounds very, very odd. Who set that up? Has he played with
>non-improvising types before?
can't tell you who set it up but FWIW the Pygmies do quite a bit of
improvising albeit a bit more ?genre/idiom/culture? specific than Rowe.
thanks for the AMM comments folks. -- hope I'm able to see them in April.
Matt Wirzbicki
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:31:07 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@idt.net>
Subject: Re: AMM
Jesse Kudler wrote:
> Brian, did Rowe speak to a group, or did you just talk to him privately?
> Sounds like he was very interesting.
Thanks to Jon, I was able to horn in on some of his conversations with
Rowe. But he seemed quite open to and patient with anyone who
approached, no matter how annoying (and believe me, I overheard a
couple....). I thought I heard that all three were at NEC on Friday
though, and gave some kind of talks.
Brian Olewnick
(Go Yanks!)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:36:48 -0700
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: Re: Delerue's "Contempt"
Dear Julian and Zorn list,
I found the CD in my collection: It is called "Bandes Originales des Films
de Jean-Luc Godard" The label is Hortensia distributed by BMG in Japan.
The serial no. is BVCP-1064.
The cd features the music from :
A bout de Souffl=E9 (Breathless)
Pierrot Le Fou
Alphavlle
Le Mepris (Contempt)
I strongly recommend this cd. Again, I bought this cd at HMV Tokyo - so
maybe a HMV store in your neighborhood may be able to order it for you.
- --=20
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:08:29 +0950
From: "Case" <sinkas@camtech.net.au>
Subject: Re: What is the worst Zorn release
Hi all,
I think that trying a Zorn record will really tell you little about how you'll
feel about it in a years time,
Case
At least I didn't buy it... so you could say I learned that "listen
to Zorn before buying" lesson.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 0:40:15 -0400
From: "R. Lynn Rardin" <RARDIN@orion.rose.brandeis.edu>
Subject: Re: AMM
Brian Olewnick wrote:
>AMM's performance was also wonderful but (only for me, perhaps) I
>found it "suffered" through no fault of its own from the preceding
>acts. That is to say, though many of them were attempting to plow
>similar areas, they were relatively unsuccessful, especially the
>immediately preceding group who, I thought, were god-awful. So,
>when AMM began playing I (stupidly, granted) began critically examing
>why, for example, when Eddie Prevost dragged the point of a stick
>across a drum, it sounded great but when player X did it, it sound,
>well, like someone dragging a stick across a drum...
My enjoyment of the set suffered a tad from this, too. Whether or not
the preceeding groups were successful, the simple fact that we heard 4
groups prior to AMM taking the stage, several of which "plowed similar
areas" to use your words, probably made my ears a little less receptive
to AMM. Come to think of it, this makes it even more impressive that I
was blown away by AMM's set. In defense of the local guys, can you
imagine how tough it would be to play on the same bill as AMM, especially
if your music was in a similar vein to their work?! It might have been a
smart move to program a bit more variety on Saturday night.
- -Lynn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:41:23 -0700
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: AMM
Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> Tilbury, instead of, say, reaching into the
> piano and banging away or producing a Cecilish flurry, played some quiet
> beautiful figures as if to say, this too can exist in this space, at the
> same time. I'm pretty confident that no members of other bands there
> last weekend would've had the balls to inject such "prettiness" into the
> proceedings. Wouldn't have been cool, you know.
This reminds me of seeing a gig by the lineup Michael Snow/Henry Kaiser/John
Oswald/Buckethead a number of years ago ... at one point, Buckethead just sort
of *took off* into a one-man festival of chopsmanship, laying waste around
himself Grim Reaper-like with an amplified scythe; after a minute or so, Kaiser
& Oswald gave up, grinned at each other & folded their arms over their
instruments, waiting for the end of the onslaught, and Snow just sat there,
playing these quiet, big open chords, somehow knowing exactly where to drop the
punctuation points into the primordial swirl of notes, somehow always
harmonically right w/ the moment they were dropped into.</drool>
Folks, seek out those old CCMC LPs. Really.
- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com
"The trouble with writing stirring manifestos is that one has
to read them years later and ponder where things went wrong."
-- Jaxon
np: _Charlie Watts/Jim Keltner Project_ (don't laugh!)
nr: Miles Harvey, _The Island of Lost Maps_
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:55:18 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: absinthe live? (was: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?)
>
> >
> > BTW, did they play any absinthe - like shows?
> > Marcin Gokieli
>
>
i'm not quite sure about this myself, but if i remember correctly i once met a
guy who told me he'd seen a live performance of "absinthe" in germany
(cologne?). must have been around 1991/92/93. i also think i remember him
telling me that it wasn't the "standard" naked city line-up. maybe marc ribot
played, too - plus some others.
sorry, but i only remember this very vaguely...
patRice
np: sweet f.a.
nr: eiji yoshikawa "musashi"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:30:30 +0200
From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" <rob@llaert.nu>
Subject: Masada
C'mon guys, wake up. Even after seven Masada releases they managed to
release essential songs like 'Shechem', 'Kodashim', 'Ne'eman' and 'Khebar'
on HET. Listen to them now and evaluate. These songs are not just good songs
they are shockingly wonderful and totally justify the release. And the same
can be said about TET and YOD.
The problem is that a lot of us have a short attention span and fail to
invest the appropriate time into the powerful Masada Songbook which should
still be expanding.
Rob@llaert.NU _______________░░░░░░
np: Equal Interest - 1999 (Melford/Jarman/Jenkins)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:46:40 +0200
From: "Rob, the Belgian guy" <rob@llaert.nu>
Subject: Crush
Crush live yesterday. Myra has a friendly and charming presence. I must
confess that I didn't like Takeishi's fretless sound too much. I am aware
that Myra's compositions are quite challenging to play simultaneous and I
somehow felt they didn't succeed in doing so all the time. Still, a nice
concert. She said that 'Same River Twice' was up to something CD-wise.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:17:42 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: Zero Masada would be enough
From: Nuno Barreiro <nbar@di.fc.ul.pt>
> Joseph Zitt wrote:
> > > songbook, like Monk. Of course this is a joke...
> > In what sense?
> In the sense that anyone may easily produce such statements...
> One doesn't write a songbook with the intention of writing a
> songbook (at least when refering to jazz musicians). One
> writes songs and, eventually, the songs will become a songbook.
> It's not an absolute activity...
> It's like saying: "I am planing to write a few standards..."
What's wrong with that? Remember that JZ arranges those tunes for different
lineups. Reinevetnting the notion of a standard?
I must say that i think there's something wrong with those masada
complaints. First, I think that, as i wrote in my previous post, saying that
masada = OC + jewish scales is completely wrong. Listen to 'kaztatz' form
gimmel, and you'll see what i mean (or you'll tell me that i'm wrong).
Second, I do not like the 'progressive' ideas that undrelie what some of you
write. In fact, everybody seems to agree that the musical abilities of the
band are great. The wrong thing is that there's no 'revolution', no 'new
things' in the masada stuff (well, and what about those bar kokhba and
circle maker etc. stuff?). It's like if the music was wrong from a moral,
not musical, standpoint. I do not like that. One can use the past if one
wants to. Look at the beauty of Stravinsky's neoclassical works (Look at
them and flame on...;-)). Look at the way IS used the old themes and ideas
in a new, creative way. JZ is doing the VERY SAME THING imo.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:29:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: unheard music
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
> sven-ake johansson - schlingerland/dynamische schwingungen: this is what you
> fear from a solo drum record. prolonged sonic experiments that never go anywhere
> and kind of amount to so many minutes of undeveloped rumble. maybe innovative in
> 1972, but bored me. i think i recall someone here praising it, tho.
interesting... what little i heard
from his new record on hat-hut, i had a
similar impression.
> nachtluft - belle-view i-iv: pretty interesting electroacoustic inventions from
> 1986. need to listen more.
the comparissons to amm seemed accurate.
started off sounding interesting.
i probably need to listen to it more as well.
> haven't heard the joe mcphee from this series, but it sounds interesting.
> opinions?
i liked it quite a bit, but it's a far cry
from "tenor".
hasta.
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:35:10 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
From: Julian <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
>There are
> 2 albums that come to mind that people generally seem to agree on that
> aren't so hot: "Nani Nani" (with Yamatsuka Eye) and the infamous guest
spot
> with the Intergalactic Maiden Ballet (I haven't actually heard it myself
due
> to all the warnings). "Nani Nani" actually has it's moment(s) but
generally
> it's just Zorn and Eye screwing around...
Nani nani is quite fun IMO. As to Intergalactic Maiden Ballet... ain't there
anybody who'd like to trade for my copy of that brillant fusion album?
Easily the worst thing JZ was involved with.
Marcin Gokieli
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:08:37 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
Hello,
Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list some
time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be so kind to
go through the archive for the rest of us? :-)
ARTHUR_G
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:34:43 +0200
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <Vuilleumier@micro.biol.ethz.ch>
Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Mittwoch, 18. Oktober 2000 12:08
Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
> Fred Frith wrote a good answer to that question on his mailing list some
> time ago. Maybe somebody out there have it, or somebody would be so kind
to
> go through the archive for the rest of us? :-)
What I found in my archives was actually an answer of Fred regarding why
Keep the Dog stopped, where he mentioned Naked City in passing:
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Frith" <frith@mills.edu>
Cc: <fred@music.ch>
Sent: Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2000 17:35
Subject: [fred] Re: [fred] Re: [fred] Keep The Dog
> Keep the Dog was, as Tod, describes, primarily concerned with pre-existing
> material. I wanted to perform it, but also to see what would happen to it
in a
> performance context. We did songs from just about every previous project
I'd
> been involved in, from Henry Cow and Art Bears through Gravity, Speechless
and
> Cheap, also Massacre and the Kaiser Thompson French Frith project, as well
as
> material from Technology of Tears and Allies. It was a lot of fun, and I
have
> countless live recordings from our several European tours, some of which
may
> eventually see the light of day. I stopped the group, however, because it
> seemed a bit odd to put so much energy into something that I wasn't
actively
> composing for - I would always rather be writing something new than
rehashing
> the past, however much I like the material. In the last days we did a
lot of
> structured improvising, and I enjoyed that rather more than the
'repertoire',
> but it was too large a group and scattered a group (New York, Montreal,
London,
> Germany) to consider continuing in that direction) and I learned from
Henry Cow
> never to prolong the life of a project beyond the point where it's useful,
> however successful it may be (see Skeleton Crew, also Naked City, which
could
> still be out there making a ton of money if John had wanted it, but he'd
done
> everything he set out to do with the group and wisely moved on)
> cheers
> Fred
maybe there was something else, but I don't have it
Stephane
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:39:10 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: merkin masada (long)
Has the Bar Kokhbah ensemble ever played any of the Ennio Morricone songs in
concert? I think they do one or two on the new version of The Big Gundown,
right?
ARTHUR_G
_________________________________________________________________________
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http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:47:08 GMT
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
Hey
>What I found in my archives was actually an answer of Fred regarding >why
>Keep the Dog stopped, where he mentioned Naked City in passing:
There was also another one, specifically about Naked City. But it was more
or less the same thing, only longer :-) They felt it was about time to end
it, so they did...
Still the mystery about "Radio Part 2" remains. Frith was also asked about
this but more or less avoided answering. Why did they feel to stop it in the
middle of a record?
ARTHUR_G
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:42:30 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steve Berman <steve@IMS.Uni-Stuttgart.DE>
Subject: Re: Zero Masada would be enough
>>>>> "Dave" == DRoyko <DRoyko@aol.com> writes:
Dave> [...] Is some other music, maybe Derek Bailey's,
Dave> more "important"? I have no idea, but from what I have
Dave> listened to of his (exectly two recordings), I could care
On rec.music.bluenote a week or two ago you said you'd only heard the
duo with Cecil Taylor; what have you heard since?
Dave> less, because I'd rather listen to a jackhammer.[...]
Ah, maybe that's why you don't like DB -- I really don't hear much
jackhammer sonority in his playing (though he comes close a couple of
times on _Saisoro_ with the Ruins). If jackhammer guitar is what
you're looking for, check out Jean-Marc Montera's _Hang Around Shout_
(FMP) (there's also a couple of jackhammerish tracks on Erhard Hirt's
_Gute und schlechte Zeiten_ (FMP OWN), which is among the most
eclectic free improv guitar records I've heard).
- --Steve Berman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:04:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com>
Subject: chris speed
interesting article.
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/iviews/CSpeed.htm
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:40:15 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
On Tue, Oct 17, 2000 at 06:11:22PM -0400, Neil H. Enet wrote:
> Finally, I'm not saying that SPY VS, SPY shouldn't be bought by a new Zorn
> fan ... actually I think they should ... but I just wanna know if there is
> somebody out there who thinks this album is not so hot.
I hated this disc when it first came out (partially because I'd heard
and enjoyed the band's previous non-hardcore incarnation live). I
recently got a copy again, and enjoy it a lot more -- what had sounded
to me like a wall of noise now seems almost lucid. But I don't listen
to it nearly as much as some others (such as Absinthe and Bar Kokhba).
np. King Crimson: Red (24 bit remaster... ooh...)
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:58:49 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: answer to several threads...
Hi folks!
sorry to do it like this but i'm getting the digested version and
sometimes it's just to much info for the time i've got in hands. so...
Naninani - i've given it a listen this morning at a cd store and he first
track got my first smile this week. the disparity between the sax solo and
the machingun and suffering is just hillarious.
best/worst zorn - as has been said (alot of times) that depends on our
tastes. something that could help is knowing someones musical background
(in question of taste). the kind of musical review i find more usefull is
the one that establishes links between what is heard and potencial
references. even if they are inexistent. anyway the ear first is a good
motus...
masada -zero? - why? if zorn wants to do 100 masada (reaaly hope not)
records let him do it. i would regret it but to the point they should
never happen? and if it's in 98th record that he strikes a music or piece
that really sets one off? them what? like previously is a question of
taste. last year i couldn't hear "the classic guide to strategy". today i
really like it.
book - i've come across a book on zorn edited by materiallu sonori that
bings also a cd with him and eugene chadbourne. any comments from fellaw
zornfans?
salut!
Ricardo Reis
"NON SERVIAM"
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #120
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