ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n119

Internet Message Format | 2000-10-17 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #119
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, October 17 2000       Volume 03 : Number 119



In this issue:
-
       Re: what about speed?
       re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
       Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
       RE: What is the Worst Zorn Release?
       Re: Delerue's "Contempt"
       Re: AMM
       Re: greg kelley's TRUMPET (review)
       Re: what about speed?
       Re: AMM
       Re: AMM
       Re: AMM
       KF
       Re: AMM
       Re: AMM

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:18:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: what about speed?

Rob the Belgian was saying...

> I didn't like "Iffy" too much either, but Speed's sound and melody with
> Pachora is majestic. He still has to prove that same level in other
> environments.

I found that "Iffy" really took some time to grow on me - my first couple
of listens I was rather let down but now it qualifies as a total
thumbs-up.  One thing that's really interesting to me about Chris is
that he seems to save all of his really burning soloing for other people's
bands - Tim Berne's Bloodcount and Dave Douglas' Sextet are the two that
really come to mind for me.  With his own groups he seems to lay a bit
lower, as if he's diverting his efforts towards acting as a ringleader in
refining the group dynamic.  Which, I think, is the real star of both of
his quartet records - everyone has an opportunity to step out front and
blow, but what really hits me are those moments when the whole band is
just burning all together.

And since you mention Pachora (this actually occurred to me listening to
Matt Moran's Slavic Soul Party disc last night): if I had to choose
between listening to his clarinet or his tenor, I'd pick the clarinet,
no question.  I feel like I can hear his tenor playing really turning into
something interesting as compared to releases from several years ago, but
his clarinet playing is consistently the absolute shit.  He seems to be
able to do sweet'n'pretty, fucking ripping, and everywhere in between with
total conviction.  Yes, more clarinet please.

According to Amazon, they just dropped "Emit" and "Alasnoaxis" in the mail
yesterday.  Listened to a bit of Emit on Amazon this morning - sounds very
very nice indeed...

(I recognized 'Kosmia' from hearing it at the record release gig for
"Deviantics" a while back - the folks I was sitting with [a couple of
unnamed members of Sideshow who should probably have known better] seemed
convinced that it was by Cyndi Lauper.  I got drunk and kept referring to
Cuong's pedals as "toys", which I don't think he appreciated one bit at
all...)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:36:02 +0200
From: fas <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?

> From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Odp: Why did Naked City Stop Perfoming?
>
> From: Ari <[e-mail]>
> > 2) they didn't like the audience asking them to play the NC-"hits" again
> and
> > again...
>
> BTW, did they play any absinthe - like shows?
> Marcin Gokieli

don't know for sure, but i don't think so.

but that's another point of the masada vs. naked city
discussion: why aren't there any naked city live cds
in the tzadik archival series?

he started floating us with masadas but still no naked city
in sigh(t). that's sad because i think naked city live cds
would be very popular.
(i know some bootlegs of naked city concerts and all of them
are awesome, but all have *awful* sound-quality.
something official is due!)

f.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:53:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: What is the Worst Zorn Release?

Weird Little Boy.

I was hugely disappointed when I heard it, because I expected a
little bit more than pointless improvisations by 5 great musicians.

At least I didn't buy it... so you could say I learned that "listen
to Zorn before buying" lesson.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!  It's FREE.
http://im.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:03:02 -0700
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: What is the Worst Zorn Release?

Okay, I'll bite. These are the three (and only) Zorn CDs I actually sold
back:

- - The Book of Heads
- - Aporias
- - Cobra Live at the Knitting Factory

The first I don't like because I just don't get solo guitar. Solo bass, yes,
but I'd rather listen to a jackhammer than have to listen to, say, Derek
Bailey. =)

The third I don't get because I probably really have to see the game pieces
performed live.

Essential Zorn CDs (clearly there's no consensus on these):

- - the first Naked City album
- - Masada: Gimel
- - Painkiller: Execution Ground
- - Spy vs Spy

and on some days,

- - Naked City: Leng T'che
- - Bar Kokhba

I have to agree that the Masada releases are getting a little repetitive,
but I still feel compelled (I might add, *joyfully* compelled) to get 'em
all. Seeing Masada live two years ago was a religious experience for me,
so...

Later,
Ben

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:17:14 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Delerue's "Contempt"

> There was (and still is?) a collection of early Godard films on one cd.
It
> was issued in Japan in the mid-90's.  Also you may find the piece in a
best
> of Delerue collection.  As far as I know I don't think there was ever a
> full-length album of the Contempt soundtrack.

Thanks a lot for the help, but I was after some titles too, since many
internet music sites list their items with no track lists or sound
samples... Also, I know there is at least one cd with 'selections' from
Contempt i.e. a few pieces and I think maybe some dialogue too, I am really
looking for something like this...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:13 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I'm really curious to hear other people's reactions to the AMM show in Boston
> on Saturday. I know there were more people from the list there than have
> spoken up as of yet...

Well, first, because it hasn't really been discussed, I wanted to

mention Keith Rowe's solo performance on Firday night. This really

knocked me out, even, dare I say, more so than AMM the next day. Rowe

displayed an enormous amount of concentration, imagination, depth of

feeling and pure obsession with sound that was really awe-inspiring. I

felt that Rowe was playing as if no one else was in the room,

experimenting with sound for his own delight and knowledge. He tended to

maintain a drone of one sort or another, sometimes emerging from slight

feedback interference, other times from the tapping of the blades of

small, handheld fans against the guitar strings. This provided a rich

and complex "bed" from which to overlay and integrate other sounds.

Often the generation of these sounds involved the slightest, most subtle

manipulation of his devices, for example moving those fans a

quarter-inch one way or another, sometimes to drastic effect, sometimes
producing no immediately appreciable change in sound (though I bet it
was there, in Rowe's ears). He mentioned after the show that his
shortwave radio was activating itself in some manner which he could
control, so he decided to "simply" intergrate its occasional bursts into
the performance; very nice. Overall, it was about an hour of gorgeous,
difficult, deep music.



AMM's performance was also wonderful but (only for me, perhaps) I found

it "suffered" through no fault of its own from the preceding acts. That

is to say, though many of them were attempting to plow similar areas,
they were relatively unsuccessful, especially the immediately preceding
group who, I thought, were god-awful. So, when AMM began playing I
(stupidly, granted) began critically examing why, for example, when
Eddie Prevost dragged the point of a stick across a drum, it sounded
great but when player X did it, it sound, well, like someone dragging a
stick across a drum. So it took me a while to relax into the show. Even
so, it's a complex enough performance that, under the best of
circumstances, I'd want to listen to many times because there's so much
going on, so many connections made and...missed. Earlier in the evening,
Rowe was talking about his growing fascination with "failure" as regards
improv performances. How, if I'm remembering righttly (Correct me if I'm
wrong here, Jon), they had done some shows in Japan which "failed" for
what Rowe thought were reasons both fascinating and worth investigating
further. He seems to have put paid to the notion of "communication"
within the group and indeed thought it was impossible, but found great
potential beauty in that impossibility. (and I'm sure he expressed it
more cogently than I am). Anyway, with that in mind, I found myself
listening for a failed performance--certainly an odd way to try and
appreciate a concert, kind of a negative image thing, "hearing" missed
opportunities.

Hell, what other band induces nutso thoughts like this? After the show,
I wished Rowe continued success in his attempts at failure, with
apologies to Tom Johnson.

Beautiful shows; three astounding musicians.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:08:53 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: greg kelley's TRUMPET (review)

Oger wrote:

> >From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
> >Greg Kelley - TRUMPET  (Meniscus, 2000)
> >[Kelley, unaccompanied trumpet]
>
> I just listened this new CD once.
> I definitely agree with you.
> Very good, very deep music.
> Very good player.
>
> There is another trumpet player who plays in that direction : Axel Dorner
> (german).

Who also, I think it's been mentioned, has an excellent new CD on the same
label, Meniscus: 'Claque,' with Fred Lonberg-Holm and Michael Zerang.  But
it's a very different kind of recording, more conventional free improv as
opposed to the ultra close-up, ultra intimate solo disc by Kelley.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Yankees, failing to clinch the AL playoffs again (so far...)

Personal P.S.  Jacques, drop me a line if you didn't get the message I sent
to you through Jon (e-mail problems)...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:16:24 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: what about speed?

Tom Benton wrote:

> (I recognized 'Kosmia' from hearing it at the record release gig for
> "Deviantics" a while back - the folks I was sitting with [a couple of
> unnamed members of Sideshow who should probably have known better] seemed
> convinced that it was by Cyndi Lauper.

You know, the first time I heard it, I didn't have the CD case nearby, and I
wondered if it was in fact a strange arrangement of "Time After Time."

Of course, to me, that's FAR from an insult.  It was good enough for Miles
Davis, too...

Such sweet clarinet...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - The Yanks continuing to clutch at straws...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:50:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: AMM

great description by Brian of the solo Rowe set. a few additions:

<< He mentioned after the show that his shortwave radio was activating itself
in some manner which he couldn't control, so he decided to "simply" integrate
its occasional bursts into the performance; very nice. >>

the electricity was spiking in and out on him.

a couple of other notes as to what he was actually doing: besides the fans,
he was using both a FM and a shortwave radio, both simultaneously for a
while. he also used some springs, which he attaches near the bottom of the
guitar.

<<Earlier in the evening, Rowe was talking about his growing fascination with
"failure" as regards improv performances. How, if I'm remembering rightly
(Correct me if I'm wrong here, Jon), they had done some shows in Japan which
"failed" for
what Rowe thought were reasons both fascinating and worth investigating
further.>>

that's pretty much right. AMM just finished doing 8 or 10 shows in Japan, and
Rowe was saying that some of the performances were "difficult", but he said
that was what kept things interesting after 35 years. he didn't say that
those specific performances failed though (to me anyway); the talk of failure
came from the lecture that Tilbury gave at the New England Conservatory
Friday morning, where at the end, the three members all answered questions,
and there was evidently much discussion of failure in improv and how it's
more important than success. I wasn't there though; anyone who was want to
give more details?

<<He seems to have put paid to the notion of "communication"
within the group and indeed thought it was impossible, but found great
potential beauty in that impossibility. (and I'm sure he expressed it
more cogently than I am). >>

this I don't recall, but I'd like to hear more about it, if you remember
anything else, Brian.

<<Beautiful shows; three astounding musicians.>>

no argument there.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:08:52 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM

[e-mail] wrote:

> this [the impossibility of communication] I don't recall, but I'd like to hear  > more about it, if you remember anything else, Brian.

My recollection was something on the order of (paraphrasing, of course):
"You begin to realize that true communication is impossible, but THAT,
in and of itself, is a fertile area for exploration that I'm finding
increasingly fascinating." I think that was when one of us mentioned
"meta-communication" as an alternative to what one might think of
"traditional" improv communication, ie, the players overtly accomodating
and acknowledging their fellow musicians. This was one of the (many)
problems with some of the other bands at the fest; eg, "Well, he just
started playing loud, so I guess I should play loud"...you know the
routine. In fact, one of several things I picked up on during AMM's
performance was Prevost's willingness (eagerness, even) to disrupt the
proceedings by playing loud when it would have seemed that quiet was the
way to go. Tilbury's Feldmanesque consonance has also always worked this
way for me. There was a section where Rowe had set up an abrasive,
discordant drone and Prevost was intensely bowing a cymbal, the two
creating a howling whine; Tilbury, instead of, say, reaching into the
piano and banging away or producing a Cecilish flurry, played some quiet
beautiful figures as if to say, this too can exist in this space, at the
same time. I'm pretty confident that no members of other bands there
last weekend would've had the balls to inject such "prettiness" into the
proceedings. Wouldn't have been cool, you know.

I don't know if it's typical of him (though I wouldn't doubt it), but
aside from his music, Rowe was awfully impressive in his apparently
constant thinking about (and openly talking about) his musical
philosophy. Jon, I think you mentioned on the way back that Rowe once
said he spends every morning re-evaluating his approach to guitar
playing. I don't doubt it.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:37:19 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:09 PM
Subject: AMM



> another interesting Keith Rowe tidbit: in a few weeks, he'll be travelling
> somewhere in Central Africa and jamming with pygmies. he didn't know
whether
> he was going to need a generator, but he was sure that he couldn't play
> without electricity.


That sounds very, very odd.  Who set that up?  Has he played with
non-improvising types before?

- -Jesse



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:46:09 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: KF

For all the Knitting Factory train-spotters: there's an article in this
week's Village Voice about their financial troubles

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0042/sotc.shtml

- -Jesse


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:45:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: AMM

In a message dated 10/17/00 11:35:26 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< That sounds very, very odd.  Who set that up? >>

it had something to do with an AMM performance at the same festival as a
project of Lukas Ligeti's involving some African musicians.

<< Has he played with non-improvising types before?>>

I'm guessing that what he played in Mike Westbrook's jazz band in the sixties
was much more structured than this will be. but no, off the top of my head, I
can't think of anyone he's played with who's entirely outside of the
jazz/improv tradition.

so what did you think of AMM, Jesse?

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

NP: the Yankees, who aren't really struggling so much anymore

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:12:36 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>

> it had something to do with an AMM performance at the same festival as a
> project of Lukas Ligeti's involving some African musicians.

Hmm. . . I'd like to hear how that goes.  I wonder if the African
(traditional, I assume?) musicians will take well to Rowe's table-top
guitar.

> so what did you think of AMM, Jesse?

Heh.  I've been meaning to post a review, but this is a very busy week for
me, and I think I actually have to (pretend to) be a real college student
tonight.  But I plan to write something about AMM and some records I got
this weekend (new Sugimoto/Drumm duo, Gustaffson/O'rourke duo, new
Intransitive comp., Greg Kelley, Matt Weston, Kurzmann/Stangl duo) when I
find time.  I will say that I enjoyed AMM a lot, but I wasn't nearly as
jaw-droppingly floored as most people I talked to or who've reported here.
Like Brian, I'm thinking this may have more to do with me than with their
set.  I had a hectic night trying to find parking, I found the house lights
on the audience distracting (they were dimmed but still on), and I was
psyched up from seeing Melt-Banana the night before (really fast, crazy,
noisy spazz band; pretty great, but quite antithetical to AMM).  However, I
still found the set quite engrossing, and I barely noticed the time passing.
Actually, does anyone know exactly how long they played for?

I have some more specific observations, but I'll hold up until I have more
time and I've thought about it a bit more.

RE: Rowe's solo set, I'm really wishing I hadn't missed it now after reading
Brian's description.  Sounds fascinating, and it may have helped to give me
another angle with which to view the AMM set.  Does anybody else find that
they like to compare a player's solo and group work?  I find that they
illuminate each other a lot, and I love to see how a player adapts his/her
"language" to a specific event.

Brian, did Rowe speak to a group, or did you just talk to him privately?
Sounds like he was very interesting.  Did anyone interview those guys when
they were over here?

- -Jesse


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #119
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]