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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #101
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, October 6 2000 Volume 03 : Number 101
In this issue:
-
Re: Good Rock Records Of '84
RE: cool your jets, fogies
Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content)and typo.
Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse
Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!)
Re: Last Well
Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse
Re: Good Rock Records Of '84
tangerine dream
Re: tangerine dream
Taborn/Chadbourne
Re: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet
Chadbourne/Lovens
Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid
cyro & trilok
Re: Ringo/Beatles
Re: Last Well
Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:09:48 +0100
From: "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84
Good Rock Records Of '84My question was meant to be rheorical - apologies
for clogging up the list with lists again!
Unless you were a lonely 15 year old living in England, the full horror of
1984 is not something you can easily comprehend. I spent most of my time
listening to my Quicksilver Messenger Service albums whilst all around me
was Culture Club. Those of you who read the NME around this time will
remember articles that seriously suggested that the guitar was dead. They
obviously weren't paying attention to what was happening in the States...
But anyway. Tell the next person that says "but weren't the eighties great?"
to actually try and remember how awful they really were. Musically,
culturally and politically.
And before I get flamed, remember that there may well have been good stuff
out there (as mentioned on previous posts and not forgetting Zorn's output)
but how easy was it to get hold of? Nothing like today. It amazes (and
pleases) me how the 18-22 year olds on this list can have such an informed
view of as wide a range of musics as we discuss. The information revolution
in action!
But hey! enough of my yakkin'...
NP Spinal Tap - Hell Hole
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:16:12 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: cool your jets, fogies
>From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
>FWIW - Some of the funniest stuff I've seen on the list have been the -
>I'll
>call them matches - between Patrice + Bill A.
>
Indeed they were. And I'm glad they're over now so I don't have to sweat
anymore. :-)
And where's Siggy when I need him.
NP: Oval, Diskont '94
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:20:57 EDT
From: User384726@aol.com
Subject: Mozart/ modern music (no zorn content)and typo.
>Handy wrote 104 symphonies and Mozart wrote 41 but today most composers
can't write the same kind of piece over and over again.
I apologize for misspelling Haydn name. I let it go through my spell checker
and didn't catch it but I'll assume some of you new who I was talking about.
As far as W. C. Handy goes I'm not sure how many symphonies he wrote.
Sorry,
Aaron Solomon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:32:18 +0100
From: "Alastair Wilson" <wilsonah@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse
Maurice Rickard mentioned:
>Have you heard the Corin Curschellas _Valdun:
>Voices of Rumantsch_ record? Quine, Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ikue Mori,
>Christian Marclay... I would have liked to have heard Quine on every
>track, but there are some fine ones on there, notably "Violenza," "Al
>Mar," "Da Not," "Crisa," and "Sainza S÷n" (not all of which have
>Quine on them).
Sounds fascinating! Do you have any more information - label, date etc - so
I can track it down?
Cheers
Alastair
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:44:10 -0700
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!)
If one can use the word 'enjoy,' I enjoyed Cioran's Anathemas and
Admirations.
ciao,
Tosh
- -
------------------------------
Date: 6 Oct 2000 01:11:38 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: Re: Last Well
> I don't mean to be rude, but this shows how much effort
you put into understanding Laswell's work: none. Laswell's
a bass player. Regardless of that, Laswell *is* giving a
unique new twist to the material he reconstructs ... and
in the case of the Miles Davis remixes, the point is
obviously that there is no original version. Macero's
version is just as valid as Laswell's one, as the original
recordings feature endless studio jamming by the band
which was then comprised by Macero into song-like
structures. On IN A SILENT WAY, the first track
> has the first 5 minutes or so repeated at the end of the
track... so please don't tell us that Laswell spent five
minutes doing his remixes and Macero worked months on
them. If you're so sure that these remixes can be done
with two turntables within such a short amount of time,
then why don't you try it yourself?
>
Man, am I sick of this thread! And you may not be trying
to be rude, but you sure are condescending! I've buying
and selling Laswell music (i.e. supporting the artist)
since his very first Material release in the early '80s.
Sorry I ever mentioned an opposing opinion to all you
Panthalassa lovin' dudes.
Just 2 things and then I finished (thank Kerrist!),
Laswell plays the bass guitar, i.e. it's a guitar with
bass strings, not the bass violin, not bass vocals, and
not very well I might add (technically speaking!), but hey
I do love his playing, especially with Painkiller (there's
our Zorn content!), Material, Massacre, and Last Exit. I
know these remixes can be knocked off in a hour, because
I've done them many times at the radio station where I
used to do a weekly show. And without effects racks, etc.
In fact, I had a pretty interesting one where Hendrix was
jamming with Miles! Finally if you were interested in what
someone can really accomplish using the studio as an
instrument, you would be listening to Pierre Schaeffer,
Pierre Henry, Iannis Xenakis, Karlheinz Stockhausen,
Edgard Varese, Bernard Parmegiani, Phil Spector, Joe Meek,
George Martin (not those Beatles again!), Norman Smith
(ala Pink Floyd, Pretty Things), Lee Scratch Perry, Jack
Ruby, Joe Gibbs, Mad Professor, Scientist, Adrian
Sherwood, etc. So hey, ultimately I know it's just me, I
listened to Laswell's reconstitutions when they came out,
I went back to them when friends suggested I listen to
them again, and you know what happened? I sat there
listening, waiting for something to happen, anything,
especially something I didn't get from the originals, and
you know what, nothing happened, I got nothing, so I'm
back listening to the originals and enjoying them as
usual. I still hope that someday someone will do an
interesting dub of Marley, and as for Miles, well his
stuff was perfect first time around, i.e. the ORIGINAL
records as the ARTIST had them released, so really what
was the point? Is it any different than Kenny G. recording
a duet with Loui
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:20:32 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <maurice@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Quine/Maher/Prelapse
Alastair--
Yup, got a copy right here. The info:
Artist: Corin Curschellas
Title: Valdun: Voices of Rumantsch
Label: Musikszene Schweiz
Copyright 1997 and 1996 Migros-Genossenschafts-Bund, Kultur und
Soziales, CH-8031 Zurich.
The official site: http://www.corin.ch/
and--hey!--distribution info: http://www.corin.ch/distribution.htm
Best of luck...but don't be alarmed by the occasional yodel. (My
wife, on hearing it, suggested that it should have carried a
"Warning: contains yodeling" sticker.)
- -Maurice
At 1:32 AM +0100 10/6/00, Alastair Wilson wrote:
>Maurice Rickard mentioned:
>
>>Have you heard the Corin Curschellas _Valdun:
>>Voices of Rumantsch_ record? Quine, Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ikue Mori,
>>Christian Marclay... I would have liked to have heard Quine on every
>>track, but there are some fine ones on there, notably "Violenza," "Al
>>Mar," "Da Not," "Crisa," and "Sainza S=F6n" (not all of which have
>>Quine on them).
>
>Sounds fascinating! Do you have any more information - label, date etc - so
>I can track it down?
>
>Cheers
>Alastair
>
>
>
>
>
>-
- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:15:46 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Good Rock Records Of '84
On Fri, Oct 06, 2000 at 01:09:48AM +0100, Alastair Wilson wrote:
> But anyway. Tell the next person that says "but weren't the eighties great?"
> to actually try and remember how awful they really were. Musically,
> culturally and politically.
Oh yeah? What about the bozos who did the 70s revivals? Why, in the
seventies we had to haul disco records and Jefferson Starship 45s
back and forth from the record store as we trudged in our goldfish-
bearing platform shoes, the records trailing behind us in Partridge
Family wheelbarrows tied to our waist-length hair while Richard Nixon
speeches boomed from every AM radio.
You whippersnappers have no *idea* how good you had it!
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:04:09 EDT
From: ObviousEye@aol.com
Subject: tangerine dream
just got "Phaedra."
mindboggling.
ben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 23:14:38 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: tangerine dream
In a message dated Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:05:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ObviousEye@aol.com writes:
<< just got "Phaedra."
mindboggling.
>>
Ain't that so. Tis my favorite TD, with _Zeit_ close behind.
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:45:27 EDT
From: Fastian@aol.com
Subject: Taborn/Chadbourne
I was booted offline,lost my posting and original email to what I was
responding to. Anyway, Steve Smith was mentioning the"Blue Decco" cd by
Maneri. There's great material and playing on that cd but Taborne is barely
audible. He's really buried in the mix. You can barely hear even the solos.
A really fine recent Maneri release is with Joe Morris "At The Old Office".
Very dynamic music, really driving one minute and then there's some of their
best more quieter moments that I've heard as well. The interest never flags.
Lightcap and Cleaver contribute mightily also.
Regarding Chadbourne:
I think there's a new cd out on Avant with Dr. Chad , Joe Morris, Mark
Dresser, and a drummer who's name I forgot. Anyone heard this? This sounds
like a must have. Eugene wrote a lengthy article in the latest issue of
Signal To Noise mag poking fun at some of the mags writers and critics. He
likes the mag overall, but takes some of them to task for their sloppy,
cliched, and lazy writing. He's very light hearted and humorous about it,
but it rings true none the less. I'm glad STN printed it. Anyone read his
"I Hate The Man Who Runs This Bar" book? I've only gotten through a little
of it, but it reads like a survival guide for musicians. He swears all names
and accounts are fictitious but they sound pretty real to me.
John Threadgould(40 year old west coaster)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:05:57 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Philip Johnston's Transparent Quartet
> I heard him twice: first time with Transparent Quartet and second time
> with reunited The Microscopic Septet. Both gigs were great and very
> joyful. Though I cannot say that it was really creative music. It
> sounds and feels good but don't expect something exciting in
> compositions and arrangements. Just lots of fun stuff.
>
> Transparent Quartet is less energetic and theatrical I think but the
> music is still good although it sounds like a music for a movie even
> if it was not composed to it. Still interesting and relaxing.
It's funny you should say that since from reading some of the pages of that
website it looks like a large portion of his music was in fact written for
films. Incidentally, I think his compositional style is very interesting and
quite unique, even if sometimes the recordings seem to hold back a bit on
the energy...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:17:15 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Chadbourne/Lovens
Someone asked about the Chadbourne/Lovens 2-CD on Leo. Sorry, but I
apparently deleted the message,
Anyway: It's just about all song material, not improv, with Eugene singing
and playing guitar and Lovens accompanying on percussion. There's a bunch
of standards and some originals. Also included are several celebrity
impressions by Dr. Chadbourne and some curse-filled rants from actual
celebrities, like Marlon Brando talking shit about Burt Reynolds. Needless
to say, it's an odd record.
- -Jesse
- -
------------------------------
Date: 6 Oct 2000 04:39:32 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
Subject: Re:Uncle Bill's the Minute Maid
<bashline@snotmail.com> wrote:
>
. What makes you think I
>haven't heard this stuff?
>snipsnip
>It's obvious...
_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:50:33 -0700
From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com
Subject: cyro & trilok
first, could siggy and S~z go stand over there, ken and kurt and
anybody else with a name starting with k, come over here. ok ok
perfect. the rest of you don't be shy. just don't come too close.
ah, so.
Cyro Baptista has a top shelf CD called ViraLoucos. And he just came
out with something with Kevin Breit, Supergenerous, that's not bad. You
know, forgettable, but not bad. then i catch wind of something by Cyro
called BEAT THE DONKEY. should i spend the cat food money on it or not?
Now Trilok had a very nice outing called Uhfret or something like that
(gremlins are rearranging my collection just now) and another, Crazy
Saints I think it was called, you might still be able to find my copy
down at Moby Discs on Beach Blvd. So I saw an ad for a new Trilok.
Should I allow my acquisitiveness to get the better of me (down boy!)?
np. charlie mariano -- bangalore (indian heff)
nd. just a little jim beam
nr. le grand tango (astor piazzolla bio)
p.s. i've been enjoying the list since everyone starting drinking more
these last few days. salud! how bouts a little party at the la knit one
of these evenings? or before the lake-hopkins-cyrille gig in san diego
on 10-14?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:44:16 +0200
From: "Friedrich Kapitzke" <fkapitzke@cityweb.de>
Subject: Re: Ringo/Beatles
Who could really describe that boaring drumming of Ringo to be genius ???---
would be the same to call Charlie Watts a perfect drummer,who never could
keep the time
The groups did nice Music but the drummers were the weakest part of it
Friedrich
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
To: "Zornlist" <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:15 PM
>Subject: RE: Ringo/Beatles
> Just can't think of the Beatles as boring!!!!!!!!!! NEVER!!!!!!
>
> Greatest Band on Earth - call it *POP*, call it whatever you want. It's
not
> nostalgia (i'm 21). I won't say anything more about it.
>
> OASIS on the other hand ... :-)
>
> Neil H. Enet
> ------------
>
> NP. RECOIL - liquid
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:35:57 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Last Well
>From: "Tim Keenliside" <timkeen@disinfo.net>
>Man, am I sick of this thread!
Me too. Don't start threads that you easily become sick of.
>So hey, ultimately I know it's just me, I
>listened to Laswell's reconstitutions when they came out,
>I went back to them when friends suggested I listen to
>them again, and you know what happened? I sat there
>listening, waiting for something to happen, anything,
>especially something I didn't get from the originals, and
>you know what, nothing happened, I got nothing, so I'm
>back listening to the originals and enjoying them as
>usual.
You're right it's just you and that's fine. The music didn't hit you, so
you did something else and that's great. That's productive. When something
doesn't interest or move you, you simply move on into some more interesting
and exciting territory for yourself. It's a lot smarter than presumptuously
trying to lecture those who cathect differently about their taste. Telling
them they're wasting their aural lives and turning yourself into the butt of
their jokes, so to speak.
>I still hope that someday someone will do an
>interesting dub of Marley, and as for Miles, well his
>stuff was perfect first time around, i.e. the ORIGINAL
>records as the ARTIST had them released, so really what
>was the point?
It was just an interpretation through ambient music, a recent obsession of
the mixer and one of the more accursed forms of the avant folks. Yes the
originals are great when they've been digitally remastered but they
themselves are but interpretations too--Teo and his tape splicer, Columbia's
businessman. How much control did Miles actually wield at Columbia anyway?
>Is it any different than Kenny G. recording
>a duet with Loui
I'd say it's a lot different, but since you claim to be able to read other
people's aural histories without knowing them via their musical tastes, then
I suspect there's no use in trying to convince you otherwise.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:06:46 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: recommended books (some actual Zorn content!)
"Caleb T. Deupree" wrote:
> Zorn provides a list of books without commentary: Artaud's Oeuvres
> Compl=E8tes, volume XXV;
caleb,
thanks a lot for posting that list! very informative; some interesting st=
uff
on it. (especially the encrypted messages thing in berg's work...)
now that we're talking books again, let me mention a few that i've read
recently:
william duckworth: talking music
have only read zorn's interview in this book; thought it was quite good a=
nd
interesting.
claude samuel: conversations with olivier messiaen
have only read a few of the interviews so far, but they're all interestin=
g.
the only thing that really gets on my tits is messiaen's constant referen=
ce to
the roman catholic faith.
for all you german speaking/reading people on the list, i'd like to point=
out
the german publishing company edition text und kritik and their series
musik-konzepte. they have some very interesting books out about the likes=
of
var=E8se, feldman, webern, berg, schoenberg, nono, xenakis, etc. etc. (fi=
nd out
more from their website: http://www.etk-muenchen.de/)
donald richie: public people, private people - portraits of some japanese
some very informative and interesting articles about japanese people; fam=
ous
and non-famous.
w. r. van gulik: irezumi - the pattern of dermatography in japan
this is quite definitely the best and most in-depth book ever written in
english about japanese tattooing, its development, its background and its
history.
it is out of print, but copies can be found through bookfinder.com.
michael mccabe: new york city tattoo, the oral history of an urban art
interviews with old-time tattoo artists from ny. interesting, plus a few =
nice
anecdotes.
patRice
np: iron maiden, live after death
nr: uwe schmitt, tokyo tango / hadland, myths and legends of japan
nd: water
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #101
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