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2000-09-22
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #68
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, September 22 2000 Volume 03 : Number 068
In this issue:
-
Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Cuong Vu - Pure
Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Neil Hamburger (Was: Re: Trans Am)
Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
copraphagy
Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
Re: Neil Hamburger (Was: Re: Trans Am)
s~Z S/Z
[none]
Ishmael Calvino
Re: Ishmael Calvino
Naked City database
Re: Ishmael Calvino
Re: Ishmael Calvino
[none]
Re: Ishmael Calvino
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:36:51 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
DMG just listed:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. CORNELIUS CARDEW-The Great Learning (Cortical 21) Performed
by the Scratch Orchestra live in Queen Elizabeth Hall in May of
1982. Conducted by Cornelius Cardew - founding member of AMM.
$15.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it new? Also, there is the following reissue (with Otomo):
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. HACO-Happiness Proof (Detector 22) Charming/wacky lead
singer from After Dinner and Hoahio solo effort and originally
an expensive import now only $9.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does somebody know where is this label (Detector) from?
Thanks,
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:05:03 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 01:36:51PM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> DMG just listed:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 4. CORNELIUS CARDEW-The Great Learning (Cortical 21) Performed
> by the Scratch Orchestra live in Queen Elizabeth Hall in May of
> 1982. Conducted by Cornelius Cardew - founding member of AMM.
> $15.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm pretty sure it's new. I ordered it within seconds of receiving
the blurb (as well as 5 others in the list -- having one's info on
file at a store is dangerous ;-]).
Unfortunately, http://www.cortical.org/ doesn't appear to have been
updated in a very long time, so there's little direct info.
Since it's a single CD, I'm guessing it's just Paragraph 7.
Hey, waitaminnit -- is this the same recording that was on Deutsche
Grammophon a long time ago? Eno discographies might shed light.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:56:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Cuong Vu - Pure
Anyone heard this yet? I just stumbled upon it on amazon, apparently it
came out very recently on Knitting Factory (naturally the KF site contains
absolutely no mention of it). I know he was shopping around demos of his
quintet (w/ Speed, Hasselbring, Takeshi, and Black) a while back, I would
certainly be the last person to protest a release by that band...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:08:24 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
<<Hey, waitaminnit -- is this the same recording that was on Deutsche
Grammophon a long time ago? >>
yes. Bruce's description isn't really correct. it's three pieces, all roughly
20 minutes long, paragraphs 2 and 7 recorded in 1971 which constituted the DG
record, and paragraph 1 recorded in 1982, and previously unissued, I believe.
DMG is already out of stock, but I'm sure they'll get more soon. Other Music
has copies, but for $17 instead of $15. there should be a full description at
the Forced Exposure site.
<<Eno discographies might shed light.>>
Tom Pratt just told me this is the first record that Eno ever appeared on.
haven't heard it yet, but Tom was raving about it...
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:58:17 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: Neil Hamburger (Was: Re: Trans Am)
What was Hamburger live like? I can't imagine what he'd be like in front of
a real, appreciative audience.
- -Jesse
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 3:03 PM
Subject: Trans Am
> I am not a big fan or "student" of Trans Am's music. I did see them live a
> few nights ago, though (although I was mainly there to see the
> almighty/pathetic Neil Hamburger...). I don't see too many connections
with
> Zorn, and unless I'm mistaken there aren't any personnel connections
either.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:27:19 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
"As you may know, Joyce was a writer who asked his reader to give him a
lifetime," he said. "I am that reader, and I can tell you it was a wasted
life."
The fact that he did what Joyce asked is indicative of the outcome.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:34:20 -0700
From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com
Subject: copraphagy
from Joseph Zittt:
<The most instructive point i think burroughs ever made is the
following:
"copraphagy is the most redundant of vices.">
Michael J. Williams comments:
Having looked the word up in the dictionary, coprography, with an "o"
apparently
is the act of feeding oneself on dung.
By inference, then, copraphagy should be the act of feeding oneself
with dried
coconut meat, the source of coconut oil. Not such a bad vice, but
undoubtedly
high in cholesterol.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:25:49 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
Subject: Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
>From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@hotmail.com>
>Standardizing those parameters legislates mediocrity. So-called purveyors
>of PoMo---let's say, Cultural Studies or critical theory---have their share
>of hacks and careerists, but probably no more than their share. I find
>myself torqued when the suggestion is made that it's somehow an utter "waste
>of a life" to spend one's years in pursuit of the worthless or illusory
>(i.e. "postmodernism"---which, BTW, is.......?) as opposed to the worthwhile
>or "substantial". Which is....? Classics? "Real" scholarship? Wynton
>Marsalis? Having kids? Mainstream music that is somehow quanitifiably
>(measured by record sales) more relevant to the human condition?
What I have provided to the zornlist through the Levine quote is anecdotal
evidence that someone who has carefully studied Joyce, comes to the
conclusion
that it was a waste of time. I don't believe that there exists a better
authority to pronounce judgment on Joyce than someone who has devoted their
life to it.
I understand your point that the study of Joyce is instrinsically no more
a waste of time than the study of Shakespeare. I wouldn't (and didn't)
suggest otherwise. I also agree that the point at which one draws the line
between what is worthwhile and a waste is, in an absolute sense, arbitrary,
which I think is the point of your statements above. This theme has been
beaten
to death on the zorn list. We all take it for granted. But again,
I am not laying down some standard that says Joyce is a waste of time for
everyone. Just supplying anecdotal evidence that, even for someone who
consciously strove to understand Joyce, he found the experience a waste
of time. (All the same, I have never run across someone who pronounced
a life devoted to Shakespeare a waste. Have you?) I am not standardizing
anything or relying on a culturally biased value scale. I am simply
providing an
example from that fine well called the reservoir of human experience.
David "Legislator of Mediocrity" K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:35:08 GMT
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Neil Hamburger (Was: Re: Trans Am)
>What was Hamburger live like? I can't imagine what he'd be like in >front
>of a real, appreciative audience.
Hmm, probably not as good as he'd be in front of an unappreciative audience,
like he is on his albums. I saw him twice within a few weeks -- once in
Sacramento and then in San Francisco -- and he did basically the same act.
Both times, there were too many people trying too demonstate how well they
"get the schtick" -- like yelling out heckling remarks from straight off the
albums, or just being over-demonstrative with their laughter. (Strange,
because I have always used the concept of one getting Neil Hamburger as a
fail-safe sign of intelligence....insert smiley face thingy here).
But it was still pretty funny: lots of shamelessly offensive, stupid jokes
with questionable-to-non-existant punchlines. Just like the albums, with
about 25% of the jokes actually on the albums. It's really amazing how far
he has taken this.
If you have no idea what I am talking about, this:
http://neilhamburger.tvheaven.com/index.html
kind of explains it. If you dig a little deeper, you see that he's really
not so far from Zorn-land, at least in his past life.
WY
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:35:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sigmund Nonanima <absurdbastard@yahoo.com>
Subject: s~Z S/Z
okay, I thought that maybe this was a Barthes
reference...this s~Z
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:44:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sigmund Nonanima <absurdbastard@yahoo.com>
Subject: [none]
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:38:22 -0700 Dave Trenkel
wrote:
>
> At 3:54 PM 9/21/00, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> >On Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:49:49 -0700 "s~Z" wrote:
> >>
> >> I'd say reading Moby Dick is bringing out the
best in Steve Smith.
> >
> >But the scary thing is: what's left to do in life
once you have read
> >MOBY DICK ? :-)
> >
> > Patrice Roussel.
> >
> Finnegan's Wake?
>Too hard
Isn't that kinda the point? (not the WHOLE point,
but...)
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:56:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sigmund Nonanima <absurdbastard@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ishmael Calvino
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> wrote:
>The assault on the immersive quality of
>narrativity found in authors like Italo Calvino
YES! I just read If on a winter's night a traveler,
for the first time, and I gotta say that I've never
watched a book uncurl more beautifully and absurdly at
the same time...
which reminds me--since Calvino is in mind--I've been
reading various Oulipo essays and histories lately,
and I'm still curious if anyone knows of any
Zorn-Oulipo connections (stretch?)
oh, and concerning Moby Dick (and Oulipo): I was
reading that wonderful volume, but got sidetracked by
other things, one of which was Georges Perec's A Void,
the best parlor-trick book of all time, and I came to
a part in Anton Vowl's diary which contains an E-less
synopsis of Moby Dick...so I had to stop reading A
Void and pick up Moby Dick again before the synopsis
ruined some of it for me
(hot air)
SissyFist
EnnPee: Burroughs' spoken word
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:12:50 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <maurice@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Ishmael Calvino
At 4:56 PM -0700 9/22/00, Sigmund Nonanima wrote:
>From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>The assault on the immersive quality of
>>narrativity found in authors like Italo Calvino
>
>other things, one of which was Georges Perec's A Void,
>the best parlor-trick book of all time,
_A Void_ is pretty neat indeed, but Perec's peak achievement was
_Life, a User's Manual_ (La vie, mode d'emploi), a massive jigsaw
puzzle/detective story/catalog/encyclopedia/life history of an
apartment building. One of the books making up my own canon of
essential works. (Others, if anyone cares to know, are Pynchon's
_Gravity's Rainbow_, Gaddis's _The Recognitions_ and _JR_, Kobo Abe's
_The Box Man_, and Haruki Murakami's _A Wild Sheep Chase_. All books
that hit me in a certain way and really changed the way I thought
about literature.) I got turned onto Perec by Calvino's rave about
_Life..._ in _Six Memos for the Next Millenium_. Man, am I glad I
read Perec. And Calvino's sure no slouch, either. _Invisible Cities_
might be one of the most beautiful books I've ever read as well...
Back to "deeply engaged, but too busy to respond" mode,
Maurice
- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 02:25:07 +0200
From: 2L <laurent.levy@fnac.net>
Subject: Naked City database
Hi everybody,
Do you know if a Naked City database (especially concerning live shows)
exists somewhere?
It would be a great source of information and morevover, I'm trying to
find out where a live show I got on CD has been recorded.
Thanx in advance.
2L
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:25:50 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Ishmael Calvino
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:12:50 -0400 Maurice Rickard wrote:
>
> read Perec. And Calvino's sure no slouch, either. _Invisible Cities_
> might be one of the most beautiful books I've ever read as well...
Of all the books of modern literature, INVISIBLE CITIES is the only
one that I found unbearable (I was almost ready not to finish it --
something that I never do). It sounded to me that his descriptions
of cities were just thrown at random without any proofreading, with
total indulgence just as a rethoric game (did he write it in one
evening?). Of the 50 descriptions (more or less) that the book
contains, I can't even remember one that really meant anything to
me. It was full of this exalted style where (to give an example)
something that is small is big and where complexity is easy... And
this for 100 pages (fortunately a short one).
On the opposite side, I really loved IF A TRAVELLER... due to its playfulness
and the way he is trying to put establish a dialog with the reader.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:45:11 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <maurice@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Ishmael Calvino
At 5:25 PM -0700 9/22/00, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:12:50 -0400 Maurice Rickard wrote:
>>
>> read Perec. And Calvino's sure no slouch, either. _Invisible Cities_
>> might be one of the most beautiful books I've ever read as well...
>
>Of all the books of modern literature, INVISIBLE CITIES is the only
>one that I found unbearable .... It sounded to me that his descriptions
>of cities were just thrown at random without any proofreading, with
>total indulgence just as a rethoric game (did he write it in one
>evening?).
I dunno, I guess you either respond to it or you don't. It could
definitely be experienced as "overwritten," but the language worked
for me, and it didn't matter whether it all added up to anything or
not. It works for me more as a pleasure than a challenge. Hey,
nothing wrong with that. And Calvino's language makes him much more
engaging for me than, say Borges. Certainly _Cities_ is a product of
a different kind of playfulness from things like _Cosmicomics_ or _If
on a winter's night a traveller_ (which is indeed an achievement).
- -Maurice
>On the opposite side, I really loved IF A TRAVELLER... due to its playfulness
>and the way he is trying to put establish a dialog with the reader.
>
> Patrice.
>
>-
- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:52:14 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: [none]
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Sigmund Nonanima wrote:
>
> > >MOBY DICK ? :-)
> > >
> > > Patrice Roussel.
> > >
> > Finnegan's Wake?
>
> >Too hard
>
> Isn't that kinda the point? (not the WHOLE point,
> but...)
Wasn't it obvious that the thread was ironic? Just to put
this point straight, I do not believe that once you have
read MOBY DICK, you should commit suicide. In fact, the
day I decide to read it, I swear that I will start to
take care of the garden during the weekends.
Since we are full swing on litterature, I have always been
surprised that my favorite American writer (after Faulkner)
John Hawkes was barely ever mentioned by anybody. I just
read for the second time his first novel (THE CANNIBAL) and
it is almost like a surrealistic Faulkner! And he was barely
21 years old when he wrote it... And I saw BLOOD ORANGES on
video! Finally, now that he is dead, somebody...
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:55:29 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Ishmael Calvino
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:45:11 -0400 Maurice Rickard wrote:
>
> At 5:25 PM -0700 9/22/00, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> >On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:12:50 -0400 Maurice Rickard wrote:
> >>
> >> read Perec. And Calvino's sure no slouch, either. _Invisible Cities_
> >> might be one of the most beautiful books I've ever read as well...
> >
> >Of all the books of modern literature, INVISIBLE CITIES is the only
> >one that I found unbearable .... It sounded to me that his descriptions
> >of cities were just thrown at random without any proofreading, with
> >total indulgence just as a rethoric game (did he write it in one
> >evening?).
>
> I dunno, I guess you either respond to it or you don't. It could
> definitely be experienced as "overwritten," but the language worked
> for me, and it didn't matter whether it all added up to anything or
> not. It works for me more as a pleasure than a challenge. Hey,
> nothing wrong with that. And Calvino's language makes him much more
> engaging for me than, say Borges. Certainly _Cities_ is a product of
> a different kind of playfulness from things like _Cosmicomics_ or _If
> on a winter's night a traveller_ (which is indeed an achievement).
>
> -Maurice
>
> >On the opposite side, I really loved IF A TRAVELLER... due to its playfulness
> >and the way he is trying to put establish a dialog with the reader.
> >
> > Patrice.
> >
> >-
>
> --
> Maurice Rickard
> http://mauricerickard.com/
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #68
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