home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
zorn-list
/
archive
/
v03.n069
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
2000-09-22
|
21KB
From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #69
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, September 23 2000 Volume 03 : Number 069
In this issue:
-
Re:
Surrealist music
Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
don byron/thinking plague
Re: big books (was great REVIEW)
Re: don byron/thinking plague
Re: Peter Epstein
oulipo
Re: Large Groups
[none]
Re: Peter Epstein
Raleigh improv scene
Re:
Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Lois V Vierk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:41:50 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re:
>>>In fact, the day I decide to read it, I swear that I will start to
take care of the garden during the weekends.<<<
Grab your hoe, the soil is calling.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:28:57 +0930
From: "Michael Vandelaar" <mikerita@ihug.com.au>
Subject: Surrealist music
The 'question' of surrealist music has always been problematic. Can some
music be objectively surrealist? Or is surrealist music just music performed
by people who call themselves surrealist?
There is no doubt that music played an enormous influence on surrealists
from the very begininng ... from Satie who has been mentioned here already
to the jazz 78s played incessantly at the house on the rue Chateau where
Tanguy, Masson & Prevert stayed in the 20s.
Many of the post-war surrealists were influenced by jazz ... Gerard Legrand
of the Paris group even wrote a book called, 'La Puissance du Jazz'.
There are several people who call themselves surrealist who also perform
music.
Johannes Bergmark http://www.flashback.net/~bergmark/
Hal Rammel http://www.execpc.com/~penumbra/ for his music and
http://www.execpc.com/~bogartte/ for his surrealism.
Members of the surrealist group in Chicago have written extensively on
music, in their own magazine, ARSENAL:SURREALIST SUBVERSION & other
publications. http://www.surrealism-usa.org/index.html
Cheers,
Michael
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:20:57 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: How Much Effort is Post-Modernism Worth?
On Fri, Sep 22, 2000 at 07:25:49PM -0400, David Keffer wrote:
> I understand your point that the study of Joyce is instrinsically no more
> a waste of time than the study of Shakespeare. I wouldn't (and didn't)
> suggest otherwise. I also agree that the point at which one draws the line
> between what is worthwhile and a waste is, in an absolute sense, arbitrary,
> which I think is the point of your statements above. This theme has been
> beaten
> to death on the zorn list. We all take it for granted. But again,
> I am not laying down some standard that says Joyce is a waste of time for
> everyone. Just supplying anecdotal evidence that, even for someone who
> consciously strove to understand Joyce, he found the experience a waste
> of time. (All the same, I have never run across someone who pronounced
> a life devoted to Shakespeare a waste. Have you?) I am not standardizing
> anything or relying on a culturally biased value scale. I am simply
> providing an
> example from that fine well called the reservoir of human experience.
OTOH, I spent some wonderful afternoons when I was a teenager going
through pages on Finnegans Wake with the intensity, detail, and
devotion of someone studying Talmud, aided by a scholar who had been
studying Joyce for some 40 years and hadn't lost his zeal for his
writings. (His approach struck a chord in me: he called the Wake "A
sacred text in the comic mode" -- too many people forget, when trying
too hard to "understand" it, that just on the phonemic level much of
the book is falling down funny.)
I have heard tales woefully similar to that of your professor, who
burned out and turned sour on their life's pursuits after decades of
study. Noting the wide distribution of such experiences across
professions, I suspect that the subject matter itself may not be the
most significant parameter here.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:56:19 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: don byron/thinking plague
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C02566.0CB5B220
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No, not collaborating yet, but I could certainly imagine them getting =
together to cover some Stravinsky or something...
Firstly, just letting everyone know that both of these artists have new =
releases (I don't have either of them, have only heard about them). Don =
Byron's sounds like it could be Caine-esque in that it tackles I think =
arias and leider and features among others Caine and Mark Ledford =
(vocalist on Caine's Schumann project). It is called "A Fine Line". And =
Thinking Plague's is actually a collection of their earlier material, =
named "Early Plague Years"...
And secondly while I'm here I should ask, any comments on these two yet?
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C02566.0CB5B220
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No, not collaborating yet, but I could =
certainly=20
imagine them getting together to cover some Stravinsky or=20
something...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Firstly, just letting everyone know =
that both of=20
these artists have new releases (I don't have either of them, have only =
heard=20
about them). Don Byron's sounds like it could be Caine-esque in that it =
tackles=20
I think arias and leider and features among others Caine and Mark =
Ledford=20
(vocalist on Caine's Schumann project). It is called "A Fine Line". And =
Thinking=20
Plague's is actually a collection of their earlier material, named =
"Early Plague=20
Years"...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And secondly while I'm here =
I should ask, any=20
comments on these two yet?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C02566.0CB5B220--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:06:12 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: big books (was great REVIEW)
>From: Matt Laferty <bg60009@binghamton.edu>
>I must also
>add what I consider to be the big ol' birth of this stuff: Lawrence
>Stern's
>"Tristram Shandy" Eighteenth Century England never got so postmodern.
Yes, a great book. The prototype of the shaggy dog story. I always liked
what Joyce said about the 18th century's major satirists, that they were
misnamed: Swift was stern, and Sterne was swift. Very apropos.
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:55:27 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: don byron/thinking plague
Well, as a member of Thinking Plague, but someone who's not on either of the
albums collected in Early Plague Years (I was 6 when they began recording the
first album), I like the CD quite a lot. It had to be slightly edited to
make it fit, but according to Mike Johnson (guitarist/composer) and Bob Drake
(bass/drums/engineering), it actually tightens it up a bit. If you follow
Bob Drake's work at all, either with his own solo albums or 5uu's, these
albums begin the self-taught home-grown recording method that he's pretty
much mastered by now, and I think the sound of the albums is quite charming,
albeit slightly dated. Warheads is actually the closer in our live set.
Incidentally, a new album is in the works, though it won't be done any
earlier that a year from now, most likely, due to geographic/realisitic
circumstances.
Also, maybe a Don Byron/Plague collaboration wouldn't be completely
ludicrous; I'm friends with Ralph Alessi and I've played with him quite a
bit, and I know he's played on numerous occasions with Don Byron, so
six-degrees-of-separation-wise its feasible....:) The Plague guys, mostly
being from Denver (this would not include me) are actually friends with Ron
Miles, so conceptually its in that ballpark.
- -matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 03:02:28 EDT
From: Fastian@aol.com
Subject: Re: Peter Epstein
<< > Also, I finally got around to getting one of those Peter Epstein quartet
> CD, "The Invisible." I can't remember which got the highest
> recommendation but this has some really great parts.
Indeed it does. And as much as I enjoy it, I'll confess to digging
'Staring At The Sun' much much more. Perhaps my favorite album of
1999. It's same band (with Jamie sticking to accordion!) and trods on
similar ground, but I'm hit much harder on this one by the strength of the
writing (which isn't to say the tunes on 'The Invisible' aren't good, it's
just that most of 'Staring At The Sun' I find completely sickeningly
beautiful).
>>
I love both of those cds as well. Epstein is such a lyrical and melodic
player who never seems to run out of things to say. His sound kind of grew
on me because I thought his tone was too sweet at first. He's definitely
making the rounds and turning in great performances everywhere. He's on Pete
McCann's Parable, the 2 Shepik cds on Songlines, the last Chris Dahlgren
paired up with Rob Brown. Those are all cds I keep going back to. Engaging
melodies with very inventive solos. I wonder if anyone has heard other
things, like other MA cds, or his release on LoveSlave. I'd definitely like
to get hold of those if they're anything like what I've already heard.
John Threadgould
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:34:30 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: oulipo
Since there is a hint of an oulipo thread, perhaps one of you can help me
track down an obscurity (please reply offline). Several years ago I read a
French poem that was pretty much flowery nonsense, but when you read it out
loud it was some English nursery rhyme (maybe a Mairzy Dotes on steroids).
None of the oulipo anthologies I've seen lately have this poem in it, but
I'd love to reconnect with it. If this sounds familiar to anyone, please
pass the info.
And for some brief musical content, thanks to everyone who recommended the
Tridruga with Brad Shepik on Love Slave. I got it this week and have
already listened to it several times. Beautiful, intimate music.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 07:54:43 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Large Groups
At 04:24 PM 9/22/00 -0400, &c. wrote:
>
>Obviously large groups can play gorgeous pieces where everything fits and
>everything works. A good symphony demonstrates this. Improvisation can fit
>into large groups as well, if it fits into the idea of the music.
Some of the more skilled large group arrangers currently out there would
include Barry Guy, whose London Jazz Composers Orchestra pieces are
outstanding, and Butch Morris, whose conductions often work very well and
move the line between composition and improvisation to another realm. Of
course, I think a well played Cobra also falls into the successful category.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:23:07 EDT
From: "Alan Kayser" <alankayser@hotmail.com>
Subject: [none]
4. CORNELIUS CARDEW-The Great Learning (Cortical 21) Performed
by the Scratch Orchestra live in Queen Elizabeth Hall in May of
1982. Conducted by Cornelius Cardew - founding member of AMM.
$15.
Hmmm, I think Cardew died in 1981. The BBC did record one Scratch
performance at the QEH, but that was either 1970 or 71. But it was not the
Great Learning. For a complete background read Death of the Scratch
Orchestra by Roger Sutherland (Avant #14). An ex-member he covers the
birth-life-death of the Scratch.
Also, Lou Gare, Keith Rowe, and Eddie Prevost founded AMM, which had it's
beginnings as part of the Mike Westbrook Orchestra. Cardew joined early but
reluctantly when invited in by Rowe, at least that is how the story goes.
Supposedly Cardew was looking for an outlet for his Treatise work, and saw
AMM as a possibility.
Alan Kayser
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 10:42:07 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: Peter Epstein
In a message dated 9/23/00 3:03:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Fastian@aol.com
writes:
<< I wonder if anyone has heard other
things, like other MA cds, or his release on LoveSlave. I'd definitely like
to get hold of those if they're anything like what I've already heard.
John Threadgould >>
He's on two Mike Cain trio records, one old one on MA that I haven't heard
and Circa on ECM, with Mike Cain and Ralph Alessi. Circa is a beautiful
record.
- -matt mitchell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 11:10:23 -0400
From: Matt Laferty <bg60009@binghamton.edu>
Subject: Raleigh improv scene
Is anyone on this list in the Raleigh area?
I recently read some press on the "improv" scene down there, a lot of
which seems to revolve around the Micro East Collective. Has anyone
seen any shows and would care to give an assessment? I really liked the
MEC discs that I picked up.
matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:33:52 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <fmartinelli@tin.it>
Subject: Re:
> Hmmm, I think Cardew died in 1981. The BBC did record one Scratch
> performance at the QEH, but that was either 1970 or 71. But it was not
the
> Great Learning. For a complete background read Death of the Scratch
> Orchestra by Roger Sutherland (Avant #14). An ex-member he covers the
> birth-life-death of the Scratch.
Another key document about Scratch is the 40 A4 page program from the 25
Years from Scratch event, promoted by London Musicians' Collective in 1994.
In it Brian Dennis quotes his review of the QEH concert (there was only one
QEH concert during the Scratch history, according to many of the
contributors to this program). It happened on November 1923, 1970. The
pieces performed were Mindfulness occupied with the body, by Michael
Parsons, and Rationalisation of Realization, by Richard Ascough, plus
several popular classics (as specified in the Draft Constitution) performed
in reduced versions by Christopher Hobbs (Mahler's 6th), Howard Skempton (In
C), Michael Chant (Boom, bang n Bang), and Parson himself (1812 Ouverture).
In the same collection the program for the concert is reproduced in full;
the eveneing was titled
Pilgrimage from Scattered Points on the Surface of the Body to the Brain,
the Inner Ear, the Heart and the Stomach.
_________________
Francesco Martinelli
Lungarno Mediceo 10
56127 PISA ITALY
email: fmartinelli@tin.it
webpage: http://space.tin.it/musica/upsma/
fax 0039 050 313 75 02
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 18:36:20 +0200 (CEST)
From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
Patrice,
I think there is a mistake in the recording date indicated by Cortical,
since C. Cardew died in december 1981.
In fact he was killed (by right extremists maybe helped by english policemen!).
Keith Rowe has a project to make a tribute concert in 2001 for the 20th
anniversary of Cardew's death.
There is a good article about Scratch Orchestra and Cardew in a spanish
magazine called Hurly Burly (april 2000). Translated in english. You can
have a copy through their website : http://hurlyburly.cjb.net
Jacques Oger
>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
> DMG just listed:
>
>-
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
>4. CORNELIUS CARDEW-The Great Learning (Cortical 21) Performed
>by the Scratch Orchestra live in Queen Elizabeth Hall in May of
>1982. Conducted by Cornelius Cardew - founding member of AMM.
>$15.
>-
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
>Is it new?
>
> Patrice.
>
>- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 12:14:26 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Scratch Orchestra record: new?
As was pointed out in an earlier message, I think, this appears to be
two paragraphs recorded in 1971, with another recorded in 1982.
On Sat, Sep 23, 2000 at 06:36:20PM +0200, Oger wrote:
> I think there is a mistake in the recording date indicated by Cortical,
> since C. Cardew died in december 1981.
> In fact he was killed (by right extremists maybe helped by english policemen!).
Is this known for sure? I had understood that it was a hit-and-run
but that no one knew who did it, other than suppositions based on
Cardew's political activities at the time.
> Keith Rowe has a project to make a tribute concert in 2001 for the 20th
> anniversary of Cardew's death.
>
> There is a good article about Scratch Orchestra and Cardew in a spanish
> magazine called Hurly Burly (april 2000). Translated in english. You can
> have a copy through their website : http://hurlyburly.cjb.net
There's also a very good article on The Great Learning by Brian Eno,
reprinted in his book "A Year with Swollen Appendices".
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:45:51 EDT
From: ObviousEye@aol.com
Subject: Lois V Vierk
Has anyone heard Lois V Vierk? I read an intersting article about her in
Wire the other day, and her ideas musically seemed very enticing to me. I
know at least some of her music has been released on Tzadik.
also, i got Sam Prekop's solo record the other day...very good. Jim o'rourke
does some arranging on it. very understated and mellow, with jazzy textures.
ben
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #69
******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@lists.xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.
Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com