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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, August 1 2000        Volume 03 : Number 001



In this issue:
-
       Odp: Live Komeda CDs on Polonia
       ribot/frith CD
       about Kahimi Karie and Charles Wuorinen
       Re: "musique actuelle"
       Re: about Kahimi Karie and Charles Wuorinen
       Re: new Otomo CD
       Re: new Otomo CD
       Re: new Otomo CD
       RE: new Otomo CD
       Stangl/Kurzmann "Schnee" (long)
       RE: new Otomo CD
       Re: Stangl/Kurzmann "Schnee" (long)
       RE: ribot/frith CD
       RE: new Otomo CD
       New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:56:45 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Live Komeda CDs on Polonia

> Is anyone here familiar with the live stuff in the incredible 20 release
_Complete..._ series on >Polonia?  Looking for the best of the heap to get
me inspired to investigate further...

I do not know the series numbers... could you send me title etc. info?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem you
are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor





- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:00:36 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: ribot/frith CD

I found a Ribot Frith CD yesterday that was released on Subsonic
records.  They don't actually play on any tracks together, it's
somewhat of a split record.  Anyway, the Ribot stuff is Shrek and the
Frith stuff is solo guitar.  My question is this: is this otherwise
unreleased material or is this material on other releases?

Thanks,
Dan Hewins

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:10:00 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: about Kahimi Karie and Charles Wuorinen

    Does anybody have seen:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - TILT: Kahimi Karie

  Arto Lindsay; etc.

    2000 - Polydor K.K. (Japan?), POCH 1949 (CD)

  Note: not released yet (planned for May 2000).

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the same vein, any good advices concerning Charles Wuorinen?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 12:21:58 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "musique actuelle"

    Since nobody answered:

On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:04:21 -0400  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> When I was in Quebec City one record store had an entire section labelled
> "musique actuelle" (plus a pretty large "Progressive" one) which got me
> wondering:  Does this have an idiomatic meaning in French that I don't know?
> Is this a common genre/style/sensibility label among French speakers?  If so
> does it come from the Victoriaville fest, the BYG series or some other
> source?

It is an umbrella term for all innovative music that does not fall in already
well classified genres (such as free jazz, classic contemp, etc). Usually, if
the record store owner is having a headache trying to file a record, it is
likely to end up in the "musique actuelle" section.

The origin of the term? "Actuel" means "now", and, I guess, is assumed to be
a less terrorist qualifier for new music. Although most music that is really
"actuelle" (in the most common sense) does not fall in that category at
all :-).

BYG/Actuel is another story. Actuel was a French magazine started in the late
'60s by ex-maoists. Actuel is an adjective that naturally applies to magazines
and newspapers.

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:26:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: about Kahimi Karie and Charles Wuorinen

In a message dated 7/31/00 3:11:09 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Does anybody have seen:

 - TILT: Kahimi Karie

  Arto Lindsay; etc.

    2000 - Polydor K.K. (Japan?), POCH 1949 (CD) >>

yes, Other Music has it for the bargain price of $34.99. there's a sound clip
on their home page, www.othermusic.com.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:07:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Otomo CD

On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 [e-mail] wrote:

> dances I assume they were composed for, but the long track is one of the best
> things I've heard from Otomo, a really nicely flowing piece. I'm not sure
> where Other Music (www.othermusic.com) got them from, since it wasn't on the
> new Forced Exposure release list, but they're only 14 bucks, not bad for a
> full-length Hong Kong import. recommended.

soleilmoon has copies of this as well.

http://www.soleilmoon.com



> and to finish out a troika of sine wave suggestions, the new Zbigniew
> Karkowski 3 inch on Mego, IT, is superb. it made me think of what I keep
> hoping I'll hear from Francisco Lopez, but never seem to. plus all 1000
> copies have different covers, which I think is pretty cool.

i have to confess, both this and the new Otomo didn't
really do it for me. the sounds didn't seem to develop
much and came across more as simple tones.
who knows, i probably missed the point. go figure.

on the other hand, i did pick up the "inside the dream syndicate"
disc on table of the elements and while the sound quality
is wanting, overall i found it to be really quite hypnotic
and enjoyable.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:46:24 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Otomo CD

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 14:07:02 -0700 (PDT)  SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote:
>
> i have to confess, both this and the new Otomo didn't
> really do it for me. the sounds didn't seem to develop
> much and came across more as simple tones.
> who knows, i probably missed the point. go figure.
>
> on the other hand, i did pick up the "inside the dream syndicate"
> disc on table of the elements and while the sound quality
> is wanting, overall i found it to be really quite hypnotic
> and enjoyable.

I can't say anything for the Otomo, but I find the Dream Syndicate a
tremendous disappointment. If the record had not acquired such a mythic status
I could be indulgent, but having waited all these years for that... And this
has strictly nothing to do with sound quality (which has never prevented me
from appreciating a record), or the length, since after 5 minutes of it, you
can easily extrapolate and predict how the record will finish (for those who
wonder why: there is nothing happening, only 40 mn of a long drone)...

On the other side, I was happily surprised by Charlemagne Palestine's
SCHLINGEN-BLANGEN, which is also (I think) a drone piece but one where there
is something happening.

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Otomo CD

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> I can't say anything for the Otomo, but I find the Dream Syndicate a
> tremendous disappointment. If the record had not acquired such a mythic status
> I could be indulgent, but having waited all these years for that...

i can understand this position. i think for myself,
having no idea what to expect, it was better
than i had imagined it might be, based on all the
comments i've read so far.

> And this
> has strictly nothing to do with sound quality (which has never prevented me
> from appreciating a record), or the length, since after 5 minutes of it, you
> can easily extrapolate and predict how the record will finish (for those who
> wonder why: there is nothing happening, only 40 mn of a long drone)...

this is true, it's not exctly anything momentous.
since i enjoy drones a bit better than tones in no
real organized patterns, the disc held a little
more promise for me. :)

> On the other side, I was happily surprised by Charlemagne Palestine's
> SCHLINGEN-BLANGEN, which is also (I think) a drone piece but one where there
> is something happening.

i haven't heard this yet, but i very much enjoyed
the new double cd "karenina" (durtro).

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:54:37 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD

>I find the Dream Syndicate a tremendous disappointment.

seconded.  it's terrible.

>On the other side, I was happily surprised by Charlemagne Palestine's
>SCHLINGEN-BLANGEN,

there is definitly motion here even though it's a drone.  The motion in
Dream Syndicate seems to be mostly because the Faust drummer seems unable to
maintain the monotony.  I was excited enough by Schlingen-Blangen that I
bought "strumming music" (a Palestine work for piano).  I like this one
quite a bit too.

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 17:18:21 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stangl/Kurzmann "Schnee" (long)

sorry for the cross posting and the size.

the following is a commentary on "schnee."  A duo between Burkhard Stangl
(acoustic and electric guitars, percussion) and Christof Kurzmann (G3)
recently released on erstwhile records (www.erstwhilerecords.com)

     Well, it's taken me a little while to get to the point were I feel like
I have something valuable to say about this disc because every time I listen
I disagree with something I've written - but here goes.  I'll start with the
general.   My favorite cuts are the two shorter ones, one and three.  I
think the only drab sections of the album appear in tracks two
(12'20"-19'40") and track four (12'15"-end).  These sections are not in any
way frustrating to listen to I just think that in comparison to the rest of
the album there seems to be a little wandering in these places.  I think the
track that most effectively represents the Robert Walser quote from which
the album's title is taken is track one.  The entire album seems to have
more of a focus on pitch than does other improvisation of this type and the
first track really sounds song like to me.  Stangl's use of blatantly
harmonic material combined with the pitches of Kurzmann's modulating
wallpaper suggest melodic material even though there is no obvious melody.

     One of the things which I like so much about this recording - and these
performers - is that they both have a sense of longer elements of time than
do some other performers.  The shifts in texture are made when certain
textures seem to the duo to be exhausted, in other words they are very
skilled at letting ideas take their course and then commenting on the
progression in an interesting way which hopefully brings about new areas for
exploration.  At their finest moments they are moving toward these shifts,
preparing them in a way that should astound composers (especially you
lowercase folks).

     There are also a few faster sequences of interaction which are very
beautiful despite the fact that they may not portray the quote quite as
accurately.  One of these sequences occurs in track three.  There is a
period of slow development from 8'12" - 9'43".  At 9'48" Kurzmann uses a
siren sound which he had introduced earlier in the track (2'26").  Stangl
reacts with percussion sounds at 10'08" which lead to collective garble at
10'12".  The moment of impact - my favorite short interchange of the
recording - comes at 10'22" and finishes at 10'25".  Stangl is playing a
high percussion sound which he draws out well past the moment of impact,
leaving a sort of aftershock which he drops at 11'03".

  These interchanges are astounding but to my mind their musical potency
lies not simply in how the performers react to each other during the
interchange but how the performers prepare the event (although this
preparation is unconscious) and how they treat the time after the event.
Some improvisers seem to be more focused on spontaneous dialogue at all
times.  Stangl and Kurzmann are content to save their words in order to
comment on the larger range of thoughts that have been presented over the
course of the improvisation.

     The characteristic of Stangl's playing that I have appreciated most
though the hearings I've given this recording is his tendency to create
little motifs which he then reintroduces at critical points in the
improvisation.  From an analytical, structural point of view this lends a
nice unity to the performances.  From a artistic point of view his playing
point toward a desire to 'say less with more.'  Many performers have
advocated this type of doctrine but few as radically and effectively within
an improvisational context.   Kurzmann also exhibits this trait of reusing
certain sounds at critical times.

     All analysis and commentary aside this recording contains an aesthetic
that I've been hoping to see emerge within this world of nameless music.
The communication is understated and the sounds are rarely if ever
inappropriate or difficult to comprehend within the context of the
performance.  Each moment is more a part of the whole rather than an event
in and of itself (of course I can easily imagine the performers arguing that
their performance is made entirely IN the moment).  Still, they achieve a
kind of unity over the course of time and the listener feels as if arriving
at a recognizable place instead of constantly following the improvisers into
unknown areas.  I would not hesitate to praise this recording as one of the
best of its genre but I know Jon will soon be tossing a couple more
heavyweights into the ring.


Matt Wirzbicki


- -

------------------------------

Date: 31 Jul 2000 23:54:35 -0000
From: "Tim Keenliside" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD

On Mon, 31 Jul 2000 16:54:37 -0600 "Matthew W Wirzbicki
(S) " <[e-mail]> wrote:
>I find the Dream Syndicate a tremendous disappointment.
>
>The motion in Dream Syndicate seems to be mostly because
the Faust drummer seems unable to maintain the monotony.

Seems like we're maintaining some confusion here, between
the new Cale/Conrad/Young 'Inside the Dream Syndicate' CD
(which I am still waiting to hear) which has (correct me
if I'm wrong!) Angus MacLise playing handdrums, and the
Tony Conrad/Faust collaboration which was called 'Outside
The Dream Syndicate', right? Which leads me to ask if
anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion
Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of
the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim

_____________________________________________________________
Email your boss can't read - sign up for free disinfo.net email
at http://www.disinfo.com, your gateway to the underground

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 22:06:41 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stangl/Kurzmann "Schnee" (long)

Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote:

> the following is a commentary on "schnee."

Wow, nice job Matthew! I can't add anything except to say that I greatly
enjoy and highly recommend this recording also. Along with
Rowe/Muller/Sugimoto's 'World Turned Upside Down' and Simon Fell's (VHF)
'Extracts', it's one of my favorites from an increasingly strong
Erstwhile catalog.

Kudos, as usual, to Jon.

Brian Olewnick

NP: David Garland - Togetherness (When's Ergodic gonna go back into
action, Patrice?)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:56:53 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: ribot/frith CD

Hello,

Both artists put on this cd previously unreleased music. However it is =
not a
big secret that the Ribot tracks date from the same session that was =
held
for the Shrek cd that was released on Avant. However, I prefer the =
material
on the Sub Rosa disc: much longer and more time to develop the sound.

Let me grap the opportunity to plug other releases of the subsonic =
series of
the subrosa label: they also have Laswell/Bullen (abstract dub), =
Mazacane
Connors/Sasha Frere Jones (minimal lyriscism), Justin Broadrick/Andy =
Hawkins
(dark guitar ambient), Caspar Brotzmann/Page Hamilton (sheer noise), =
Lou
Barlow/Rudy Trouv=E9 (lo fi experiments)

All the releases are split releases, so no interference whatsoever (and =
that
is sometimes a shame).

In the pipeline is a split release by Eugene Chadbourne/(undecided at =
the
moment)

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

Stefan Verstraeten


- -----Original Message-----
From: Dan Hewins [mailto:[e-mail]]
To: Zorn List
Subject: ribot/frith CD


I found a Ribot Frith CD yesterday that was released on Subsonic=20
records.  They don't actually play on any tracks together, it's=20
somewhat of a split record.  Anyway, the Ribot stuff is Shrek and the=20
Frith stuff is solo guitar.  My question is this: is this otherwise=20
unreleased material or is this material on other releases?

Thanks,
Dan Hewins

- -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:08:44 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD

- -----Original Message-----
From: Tim Keenliside [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: dinsdag 1 augustus 2000 1:55
To: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: new Otomo CD

Which leads me to ask if
anyone on the list likes the Angus MacLise 'The Invasion
Of Thunderbolt Pagoda' CD (recorded '68-'72), or any of
the Tony Conrad works like 'Early Minim

- -------------
The Early minimalism box regularly finds its way into my cd player.
Especially the cd that was recorded in the knitting factory with (amongst
others) Jim O'rourke on violin. John McEntire captured the sound on cd...
great work.

Someone on this list stated that after 5 minutes, one can hear how it will
finish after 50 minutes. I agree completely, but the same general remark can
be said for someone who is not into Derek Bailey, Merzbow or Lull (perhaps
the last one is the best example since on these discs Mick Harris uses the
same way of playing music).

But if you listen to the full cd with great attention, you will see that
Conrad is able to create a flow of sound wich brings you in some sort state
of trance.

As a great fan of japanese noise, I listen with this point of view to Tony
Conrads' music... but it could be a wrong way of doing this, who knows.

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:23:05 +0200
From: Verstraeten Stefan <[e-mail]>
Subject: New AUBE cd coming (no zorn content)

Hello Zornlisters,

for you who dig japanese noise (hello Brad !!!), some great news:

A new cd will sonn be released on Manifold records. The cd will have as a
sound source stones (similar to the one AUBE released some months ago with
someone whose name escapes me right now - but this time more recognisable).

After this, AUBE will be starting to lay the final hands on the Live series:
all the (now out of print) AUBE releases that came out on Manifold will be
re-released with an extra live cd....

Sounds great to me!!!!

Best wishes

Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #1
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