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From:     Zorn List Digest
Sent:     Saturday, December 20, 1997 8:03 AM
To:     [e-mail]
Subject:     Zorn List Digest V2 #195


Zorn List Digest      Saturday, December 20 1997      Volume 02 : Number 195



In this issue:
-
       Re: Last Exit
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #194
       Re: Last Exit
       Re: Tim Berne
       Jim Black
       Re: Last Exit
       Re: Jim Black
       Serge
       Re: Serge
       Re: Serge
       Re: Jim Black
       laswell or elliott sharp recs?
       Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?
       Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?
       Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 15:31:44 +0000
From: Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Last Exit

I agree with Steve Smith's Last Exit picks, but wanted to
add my own comments.
To me, the self-titled album and Koln are more anarchic
than Cassette Recordings and Noise of Trouble.
Noise of Trouble has solo pieces from each of the players
and a jam with Herbie Hancock. Akiri Sakata plays reeds on
some of the tracks too. This makes it their most varied
sounding album.
Headfirst into the Flames is (I think) from some time
later than the other live albums and has a different
feel-more conversational, less aggro, though still plenty
of violence.
As for Iron Path, it's not nearly as improvised as the
rest of them, but it sounds huge and I like the tunes.
Brotzmann (and I think Sharrock) have dissed it in
interviews. Steve's describtion of it as a Laswell solo
album is pretty close. From what I've read from Brotzmann
about it, it sounds like Laswell may have done a lot of it
by sampling chunks of the other cats' playing and
organizing them to fit song forms he made up later.
Brotzmann told Jon Corbett (who's not a Laswell fan):
"I don't like, for example, that last record we did, Iron
Bars [sic] on Virgin. It's bullshit. But, I didn't have
any kind of control on that. It was that kind of studio
production that I hate. You show up in the night, play a
couple of ups and downs, and somebody's mixing after
that."
(from Corbett's book Extended Play, p. 248-9)
- --
Jeff Schwartz
[e-mail]
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:51:51 -0700 (MST)
From: david m gutierrez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #194

Does anyone out there know anything about the work of Joseph Schillinger,
and what, if any, influence he may have had on JZ or any of the other
musicians discussed on this list?  I believe his major writings are
"Kaleidophone" and "The Mathematical Basis of the Arts."


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:32:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Broken <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Last Exit

On Thu, 18 Dec 1997, Rich Williams wrote:

> BTW, I'm about half done with my Sharrock Tribute website. Most of the
> graphics are up, and I'm now scanning in some interview material.I've
> still got a lot of text and other stuff(soundfiles etc.) to put up, but
> for a preview, go to:  http://pages.cthome.net/richwilliams/
>
> -

speaking of which....

I put up my own Sharrock website back in the ancient days of 1995.
Unfortunately, I haven't had the time (or material) to really expand the
thing.  I guess it looks kind of lame by today's standards but I think
that it's pretty detailed info wise.

anyways please check it out at http://vger.rutgers.edu/~hmshih/Sharrock/

thanks,

Howie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:53:58 EST
From: IOUaLive1 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tim Berne

I went to the show again tonight, it was even better than Wednesdays!  How can
this lineup sound bad? And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE.  He's got to be the
best unknown drummer there is.  If someone else hasnt already mentioned, a
highlight of the evening was "Screwgun", though every moment was pretty
captivating.  If you catch any of the sets, bring some extra money because Tim
has some new Bloodcount cd's, and I assume Sunday he will have the new
Paraphrase cd.


Jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:26:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Shepherd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jim Black

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, IOUaLive1 wrote:

> And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE.  He's got to be the
> best unknown drummer there is.

I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my
friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed
guy who looked like he was 14.  If you closed your eyes, you could see him
like bending the drumset in different directions.  But maybe that was the
Alert-tabs.  Maybe I don't get out enough, but I had never seen anyone use
the top of the high hat on the snare like he did.  hmmph! - Mike

        "It's only romantic 'cause it never works."
                - Harriet the Spy

*********************************
Mike Shepherd
[e-mail]
Middle Tennessee State University
[phone]
*********************************



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 00:08:05 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Last Exit

At 7:31 AM 12/18/97, Jeff Schwartz wrote:
>I agree with Steve Smith's Last Exit picks, but wanted to
>add my own comments.
>To me, the self-titled album and Koln are more anarchic
>than Cassette Recordings and Noise of Trouble.

I don't have too much to add to this thread, except to say that the
self-titled Last Exit album is one of my all-time favorite records.


________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 09:10:58 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jim Black

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, Mike Shepherd wrote:

> I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my
> friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed
> guy who looked like he was 14.

Wow - he had a toe for a head?  Interesting... Oh wait, you must mean he
had blonde hair - tow-headed...OK, I get it. :-|

I *have* heard that he is a fantastic drummer tho - right up there with
Joey Baron.  Which release would be the best to hear Mr. Black on?

cya
brian (who has seen people write "toe-headed" enough times to get grouchy
about it)
- ---------------------------------------------------------
"The most dementing of all modern sins: that of mistaking
success for excellence." - David Hare, playwright



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500
From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Serge

My introduction to  Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover
of "Ford Mustang."  After hearing on the radio I soon after bought the
"Intoxicated Man" CD and have had it in heavy rotation since.  I find the
Tzadik compilation excellent - if "a bit" more ecletic (side note - does Mike
Patton have similar styles on other recordings?)  Harvey just released
"Pink Elephants" which is his 2nd batch of Serge's tunes - I need to listen
more but get feeling that its (way) off the mark.  Both releases are
rearrangements in English, but at least I felt the first attempt was a great
one.

So...I am interested in what others out in Zorn land feel, if anything, about
the Harvey discs (or, as w/ Patton above, any stellar recommendations
for artists contributing to the Tzadik compilation ... other than Frith, Ribot,
MMW & Horowitz ... all of whom I like.)

Bob

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0600
From: [e-mail] (Nathan M Earixson)
Subject: Re: Serge

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500 Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
writes:
>My introduction to  Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover

Is that Mick Harvey of The Birthday Party?  just curious


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:30:09 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Serge

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:12:57 -0600  Nathan M Earixson wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 14:46:31 -0500 Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
> writes:
> >My introduction to  Serge Gainsbourg was through Mick Harvey's cover
>
> Is that Mick Harvey of The Birthday Party?  just curious

That's him.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:50:30 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jim Black

Mike Shepherd wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Dec 1997, IOUaLive1 wrote:
>
> > And Jim Black was in FULL FORCE.  He's got to be the
> > best unknown drummer there is.
>
> I saw him in K'ville with Ellery Eskillin and Andrea Parkins, and my
> friend (the drummer) and I were very impressed with this little toe-headed
> guy who looked like he was 14.  If you closed your eyes, you could see him
> like bending the drumset in different directions.  But maybe that was the
> Alert-tabs.  Maybe I don't get out enough, but I had never seen anyone use
> the top of the high hat on the snare like he did.  hmmph!

My favorite of his new tricks is bowing the top of the hi-hat while holding it
against the rims of his toms.  He did this once on Wednesday night (ending
with a dramatic crash aginst the left tom) and once on Thursday (during the
evil noise section of "Screwgun," while Formanek played arco mania, Tim
alternated between dog whistles and Borbeto-dirge on his baritone, and Chris
puffed on his tenor sans mouthpiece - watta racket!).

Like Jody said, the Thursday night sets were over the top.  Everyone was on
fine form, with particular high marks for Formanek, who was all over the place
(and during one solo chastised some folks whispering at the other end of the
room... "I'd rather you just talked, I can't fucking stand whispering..."
without missing a note).

And then there's Jim...  He was a grinning maniac all night, most especially
on "Screwgun."  Those who've heard this tune (it's on "Saturation Point") know
that it begins with a pretty straight slamming funk figure on bari, tenor,
bass and drums, and after a little while the drum part frees itself from the
band and goes into counter-rhythms.  Folks, I don't know who hid the kid's
Ritalin, but Jim was a madman, splaying lightspeed Squarepusher breakbeats
left and right across the kit, then moshing with a fierceness and style I
previously only associated with Animal (the muppet, not the Motorhead
drummer).  He had the audience and the band in stitches and Tim was having
trouble keeping his mouthpiece in his mouth...  Elsewhere I noticed Jim solved
the problem of having only four limbs with which to create racket by shaking a
string of bells clinched between his teeth.

The pace of the Thursday night sets was terrific, opening with a sensitive
"Bloodcount" into a woozily spinning "Sense and Sensimilla," then the
afore-mentioned "Screwgun" and an over-the-top "Is That a Gap?"   Second set
opened with a down-and-dirty "Bro'ball." Then came the best "The Other" I've
ever heard, in which the middle section, where it's just Chris playing
microtonal clarinet smears around Tim's alto lines, was somehow creating the
weirdest dizzying sympathetic vibrations in my inner ear...I've never felt
anything quite like this, and I noticed Mike imitating fingernails on a
chalkboard on the side of his bass.  The set ended with "Byram's World" with
its weirdly twisted new opening.

The crowd was 3-4 times larger than Wednesday night and the band really fed
off the energy and the presence of many friends in the audience.  I'm just
sorry to report that once again there appeared to be no taping going on (I
know Jody was left shaking his head at this too), so if there was anyone
taping last night please get in touch with me... I'll find a way to make it
worth your while.  This was most definitely a night to remember and a
"Screwgun" for the record books.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 23:54:41 -0500
From: Anish Kejariwal <[e-mail]>
Subject: laswell or elliott sharp recs?

Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp?
There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to
start.  Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit.  The only things
I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis'
"Sacrifist" (which is great!).  The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his
track on the Bacharach cd.

Please, nothing too noisy...

Anish



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 09:41:43 -0800
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?

Anish Kejariwal wrote:
>
> Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp?
> There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to
> start.  Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit.  The only things
> I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis'
> "Sacrifist" (which is great!).  The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his
> track on the Bacharach cd.
>
> Please, nothing too noisy...
>
> Anish
>
> -
Hmmm, Sharp that's not too noisy....

Well, the fairly recent 'Terraplane' might fit the bill, an album of
blues that's very good. But the best Sharp is noisy indeed, my personal
favorite being 'Larynx' (1987, SST). In the last few years, I've slacked
off on picking up much new Sharp, getting the impression that the new
stuff wasn't especially different from previous Carbon, string quartet
writing etc. Anyone care to recommend issues that would show me the
error of my ways?

Brian O.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:17:42 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?

At 11:54 PM 12/19/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Can someone please recommend me some music of Bill Laswell or Elliot Sharp?
>There is so much music out by both musicians that I don't know where to
>start.  Also, I've heard their music ranges quite a bit.  The only things
>I've heard of Laswell are Painkiller (which I don't like) and Praxis'
>"Sacrifist" (which is great!).  The only Elliott Sharp I've heard is his
>track on the Bacharach cd.
>
>Please, nothing too noisy...

What I like most about Laswell is the variety, so where to start depends on
what kind of music you like.

Laswell as organizer: His first 'band', and the one with which he made his
fortune, is Material, a loose collective whose personnel has completely
changed over the fifteen year period that they've been putting out records.
I find the early 1980s Material kind of dated, but Seven Souls and
Hallucination Engine are pretty good experimental rock/jazz/funk/worldbeat
type albums.  Seven Souls has a lot of William Burroughs reading.  The
Material album I play the most is The Third Power, but this is more
rap/pop/reggae, with vocals, than the others.  The live album is almost free
jazz.  Material also did a lot of disco/funk productions with Nona Hendryx
et al.  If you want to hear the Material that got him rich, look for the
Herbie Hancock Rockit album, which was also produced by Material.

Laswell as bass player: His early album Massacre, with Fred Frith on guitar
and Fred Maher (I think) on drums, has been recently reissued, and I
remember this as being phenomenal.  This was the work that got me hooked on
Laswell -- the opening track Legs has some of the best bass playing I've
ever heard.  I haven't listened to it lately, though, so I may be
remembering through rose colored glasses.  More recently, the new Arcana
album, with Tony Williams (his last project), Pharaoh Sanders, Buckethead,
etc., is also excellent, better IMHO than the first Arcana with Derek
Bailey, although the two albums are really quite different.  Painkiller owes
as much to Zorn as to Laswell.  If you don't like Painkiller, you probably
won't like Last Exit, a very noisy quartet which has been covered fairly
well on this list recently.

Laswell as knob twiddler:  This covers most of his work in the ambient
genre.  If you're a fax head, you'll want some or all of his Dark Side of
the Moog, or Outland, or Psychonavigation series, or disks on the
Subharmonic or Strata labels (bearing in mind that some of these have been
reissued by money men with questionable scruples).  I find this to be the
least interesting Laswell work, it all sort of sounds alike after a while.
The bass lines tend to be very similar in all of these works, and they owe
as much to the collaborators as to himself.

Laswell as jazz producer:  Not to be overlooked in his massive output are
the excellent albums which Laswell produced but on which he doesn't play.
I'm thinking in particular of the excellent Henry Threadgill albums released
on both Columbia and Axiom, some of which should be available at any major
chain that has a jazz selection.  I'm most impressed with the Very Very
Circus albums, a lineup that has Threadgill on sax and flute, plus two
guitars, two tubas, a french horn, and drums, plus lots of guests.  The
album 'makin a move' has a cello quartet and a guitar quartet + piano, and
'carry the day' has pipa, accordion, and vocals.  All of them are wonderful,
and I haven't heard any Laswell/Threadgill albums that I haven't liked a
lot.  Laswell also produced an excellent album by Pharaoh Sanders and some
African percussionists that shouldn't be overlooked.

Laswell has other roles he plays too.  He has produced albums by musicians
from all over the world (Master Musicians of Jajouka in Morocco, Liu Sola
from China), and his solo disk Hear No Evil has a lot of south Asian
influence.  He lends his name and talent to many projects by other
musicians, which you can read about on the Axiom web site at hyperreal.

- --
Caleb T. Deupree
[e-mail], or
[e-mail]

;; Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
;; (Pablo Picasso)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:58:43 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: laswell or elliott sharp recs?

Just a few minor comments and additions to Caleb's excellent posting.

At 10:17 AM 12/20/97 -0500, Caleb Deupree wrote:

>type albums.  Seven Souls has a lot of William Burroughs reading.  The

_Seven Souls, which was re-released this year with three additional mixes
will get yet another set of remixes in 1998.

>Material album I play the most is The Third Power, but this is more
>rap/pop/reggae, with vocals, than the others.

_Third Power_ is an interesting recording - it is the only one released
under the Material name that doesn't have Bill on bass.  The reason is that
this was recorded as a Sly & Robbie album, but some problems held up
releasing it that way, so it came out as a Material album.  I also play
this a lot.

>lot.  Laswell also produced an excellent album by Pharaoh Sanders and some
>African percussionists that shouldn't be overlooked.

This has more than percussionists, it is a complete gnawa ensemble.

Two recent releases featuring Graham Haynes (son of Roy Haynes) weren't
mentioned and should be.  One is _Tetragrammaton_, which has two long horn
and ambient/d'n'b tracks, along with three other tracks, and the more
recently released _Sacred System Two_, which is my favorite release from
Bill this year.

> He lends his name and talent to many projects by other
>musicians, which you can read about on the Axiom web site at hyperreal.

URL below.


Jeff Spirer
Axiom/Material
http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #195
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