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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #984
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, July 1 2000 Volume 02 : Number 984
In this issue:
-
RE: naive question about Internet record stores
Re: Record stores
Re: naive question about Internet record stores
Odp: I jst ordered these cds
RE: Masada
Re: Masada
Re: CD listening in stores
RE: Masada
RE: Masada
RE: UFO or Die
On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Re: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Re: Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Re[3]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:00:49 -0700
From: "Dave Egan" <degan1@telisphere.com>
Subject: RE: naive question about Internet record stores
I'd like to set the record straight regarding Amazon: They have several
distribution centers and depending on what you order, it might come in more
than one shipment. This DOES NOT cost the buyer extra P/H fees. The
shipping price for CDs is $1.99 plus $0.99 per item, so Patrice's two CDs
would have shipped for $3.97. This doesn't seem out of line to me,
considering the costs involved. It's very labor-intensive (read expensive)
to pick and pack tiny (one and two CD) orders. Anyway, Amazon's prices
generally beat a deep-stock brick-and-mortar store like Tower by at least $3
on a full-price CD, so even with shipping added, Amazon sells CDs at
competetive prices. So, I'm wondering what's up with Dgasque's sarcasm?
Oh, and I guess I should disclose: I've been working at Amazon for about a
month now. I couldn't be more thrilled about it! They treat their people
better than anywhere I've worked for years. In short, it's a fabulous place
to work. That's why I'm sticking up for them. Definitely buy your CDs at a
local dealer if there's one that merits your business. Failing that though,
consider buying them from Amazon.
- - Dave
Patrice:
>> It appears that the high cost comes from the two separate shipping.
>> It is regular practice to put the shipment burden on the customer for a
>> such a casual order
Dgasque:
> Sounds like you ordered from Amazon. I've found this to be a regular
> practice with them- that is, different warehouses under their
> distribution
> umbrella stock entirely different products and titles. But then
> again, it's
> a well known practice for mailorder outfits to make a few more dollars in
> profit under the guise of "postage and handling"- emhasis on the latter.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 23:05:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Record stores
Hi,
I'm looking for record stores in the LA area that deal
in used CDs (and carry creative, experimental music).
Any help is appreciated. If this has been discussed
over and over, e-mail privately.
Thanks much,
Ryan N.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
http://invites.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 04:14:00 EDT
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: naive question about Internet record stores
In a message dated 7/1/00 12:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
degan1@telisphere.com writes:
<<
I'd like to set the record straight regarding Amazon: They have several
distribution centers and depending on what you order, it might come in more
than one shipment. This DOES NOT cost the buyer extra P/H fees. The
shipping price for CDs is $1.99 plus $0.99 per item, so Patrice's two CDs
would have shipped for $3.97. This doesn't seem out of line to me,
considering the costs involved. It's very labor-intensive (read expensive)
to pick and pack tiny (one and two CD) orders. Anyway, Amazon's prices
generally beat a deep-stock brick-and-mortar store like Tower by at least $3
on a full-price CD, so even with shipping added, Amazon sells CDs at
competetive prices. So, I'm wondering what's up with Dgasque's sarcasm?
Oh, and I guess I should disclose: I've been working at Amazon for about a
month now. I couldn't be more thrilled about it! They treat their people
better than anywhere I've worked for years. In short, it's a fabulous place
to work. That's why I'm sticking up for them. Definitely buy your CDs at a
local dealer if there's one that merits your business. Failing that though,
consider buying them from Amazon.
>>
Well, since Mr. Egan has decided to take this public instead of the private
discussion we've had, let me repost my comment...
"Sounds like you ordered from Amazon. I've found this to be a regular
practice with them- that is, different warehouses under their distribution
umbrella stock entirely different products and titles. But then again, it's
a well known practice for mailorder outfits to make a few more dollars in
profit under the guise of 'postage and handling'- emphasis on the latter."
Nowhere did I state that Amazon double charges on their shipments. I quite
clearly explained to Mr. Egan that my comments meant to state the fact that
Amazon uses multiple warehouses to fill shipments and that it is a common
practice for mail-order companies to profit on postage and handling.
Sarcasm? Maybe Mr. Egan should consider buying a dictionary with his next
paycheck.
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 10:23:02 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: I jst ordered these cds
From: Tom Gatzen <aargh881@yahoo.com>
Subject: I jst ordered these cds
> DRESSER/FRED FRITH/IKUE MORI, MARK Later
What is that one? I'm a rather enthousiastic about death ambient, is this
one similiar (as it seems to be)?
Marcin Gokieli
marcingokieli@go2.pl
<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 14:38:02 +0200
From: "Rob Allaert" <rob.allaert@charity.nu>
Subject: RE: Masada
ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: "i only have the first masada record...where
should i go from here?"
Answer: Buy the second, then the third, the fourth maybe not, then five,
six, 7, 8 and so on. Then go on and buy the live ones ;-)
They're all great !!!
Rob, Belgium << .......
rob@charity.nu
http://www.frontstage.com/rob
icq#18906168
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 16:34:38 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Masada
Rob Allaert wrote:
> ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: "i only have the first masada record...where
> should i go from here?"
>
> Answer: Buy the second, then the third, the fourth maybe not, then five,
> six, 7, 8 and so on. Then go on and buy the live ones ;-)
>
> They're all great !!!
>
> Rob, Belgium << .......
i have to agree and disagree.
agree: yes, they're all great. i can only recommend each and every one.
(seven/zayin being my fave at the moment. i'd first bought maybe 3 or 4 of
the masada releases, got fed up because it all started to sound the same.
got back into it, realized i was wrong, and had to order all the others as
well.)
disagree: do not leave out dalet(?)/four. it is only 18 minutes long, but
definitely worth every penny!
yours,
patRice
listening to: the fields of the nephilim, elysium
reading: norman mailer the executioner's song
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 16:38:07 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: CD listening in stores
Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote:
> when i living in switzerland, CDs in the stores were unsealed and it
> was standard practice to listen to your heart's content. downside: base
> price for most CDs was $30.
>
> -
you can still listen to any cd they have in stock at all record/cd shops
in switzerland.
but when were you living there, martin? $30??? i can't remember those
times! even diw imports are "only" $23.-. non-import cds you usually pay
about $18.- for.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:57:37 +0200
From: "Rob Allaert" <rob.allaert@charity.nu>
Subject: RE: Masada
true, dalet is great, but kinda short, can't get over the thought that it
could've been a 60 minute CD aswell ;-)
Rob
- -----Original Message-----
From: patRice [mailto:gda@datacomm.ch]
Sent: zaterdag 1 juli 2000 16:35
To: Zorn-List-Digest
Cc: Rob Allaert
Subject: Re: Masada
Rob Allaert wrote:
> ObviousEye@aol.com wrote: "i only have the first masada record...where
> should i go from here?"
>
> Answer: Buy the second, then the third, the fourth maybe not, then five,
> six, 7, 8 and so on. Then go on and buy the live ones ;-)
>
> They're all great !!!
>
> Rob, Belgium << .......
i have to agree and disagree.
agree: yes, they're all great. i can only recommend each and every one.
(seven/zayin being my fave at the moment. i'd first bought maybe 3 or 4 of
the masada releases, got fed up because it all started to sound the same.
got back into it, realized i was wrong, and had to order all the others as
well.)
disagree: do not leave out dalet(?)/four. it is only 18 minutes long, but
definitely worth every penny!
yours,
patRice
listening to: the fields of the nephilim, elysium
reading: norman mailer the executioner's song
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 10:08:52 -0500
From: Craig Rath <fripp@mn.mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: Masada
At 04:57 PM 6/28/00 +0200, you wrote:
>true, dalet is great, but kinda short, can't get over the thought that it
>could've been a 60 minute CD aswell ;-)
>
What you have to remember is that it was originally a free CD that was
given to people who sent in the proof of purchase from the first three, not
just another one in the set. They only decided to release it for sale
later after the demand for it grew.
BTW, www.buy.com has several of the Masada titles for sale at $16.95
apiece, and if you order by Tuesday the 4th they have free shipping. It
doesn't look like they have all of them in stock, but some are and some are
available to order. They also have a couple of the Live 2-disc sets for
only $17.95 apiece.
Craig M. Rath
H: fripp@mn.mediaone.net
W: rathc@questarweb.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 22:55:36 -0500
From: "Greg Pierce" <gpierce@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: UFO or Die
I don't know much about the history of UFO or Die (a/k/a Ultimate Freak Out
or Die), but they did release at least one cd -- Cassette Superstar -- on
Time Bomb/Public Bath (Bomb CD-02/PBCD-4). The cd is great.
> Hey, does anyone know anything about the Japanese band UFO or Die? I know
> it was one of Yamatsuka Eye's bands around in the early nineties, but
does
> anyone know if they still perform or if they released any albums? I've
> been on a big Eye kick lately, and have been searching for any and all of
> his Boredoms side projects. Still debating whether to spend the $80-90 on
> that new Boredoms box set. Anyway, any info appreciated,
> Jamie
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:35:12 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <shkin@shkin.com>
Subject: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Hello Craig,
Saturday, July 01, 2000, you wrote to me:
CR> BTW, www.buy.com has several of the Masada titles for sale at $16.95
CR> apiece, and if you order by Tuesday the 4th they have free shipping. It
CR> doesn't look like they have all of them in stock, but some are and some are
CR> available to order. They also have a couple of the Live 2-disc sets for
CR> only $17.95 apiece.
Looking for the best on-line store I found AllDirect.com which has the
lowest prices I've ever seen. I didn't buy anything there yet but it
looks like a great deal.
- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: shkin@shkin.com
URL: http://www.shkin.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 13:50:11 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Downtown Music Gallery seems to have reasonable prices on the Masada CDs
(www.dtmgallery.com), and I'd think that, given roughly equal prices, Masada
fans would prefer that their money go to Bruce, rather than one of the
semi-shady online stores, where you're not positive you'll even get your
order even if they say they have it in stock.
my two cents,
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
NP: my first listen to the Otomo/Voice Crack sessions, recorded in March in
Zurich. pretty great stuff, unsurprisingly, although tending more towards the
quieter side of things than I expected. (sorry, Patrice, I know that you told
me not to do this, but I'm pretty excited.) this should be out on Erstwhile
in September or October, hopefully.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 14:15:10 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <shkin@shkin.com>
Subject: Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Hello JonAbbey2,
I cannot understand this point. If I really want to support musicians
or people involved in their music I rather send them money directly
than buy music paying more money. Bruce's prices are good mostly but
they are not so good for DIW/Avant and he has no CDs in stock pretty
often. BTW, I have to add tax to the price buying at DTM which makes
it almost $20 per CD.
This is part of the business for the people like Bruce so I don't
think they like the idea that I buy music in their stores because they
are good guys and not because the stores are good.
Saturday, July 01, 2000, you wrote to me:
Jac> Downtown Music Gallery seems to have reasonable prices on the Masada CDs
Jac> (www.dtmgallery.com), and I'd think that, given roughly equal prices, Masada
Jac> fans would prefer that their money go to Bruce, rather than one of the
Jac> semi-shady online stores, where you're not positive you'll even get your
Jac> order even if they say they have it in stock.
- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: shkin@shkin.com
URL: http://www.shkin.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 15:58:19 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
In a message dated 7/1/00 2:16:40 PM, shkin@shkin.com writes:
<< Bruce's prices are good mostly but
they are not so good for DIW/Avant and he has no CDs in stock pretty
often. BTW, I have to add tax to the price buying at DTM which makes
it almost $20 per CD. >>
I just got off the phone with Bruce. he has 7 of the 10 studio discs in stock
right this second, and has the other three on order. he says that he usually
has more than 7 in stock. his prices are $16 apiece for these, and $15 for
Daled.
I'm not telling you personally where to buy CDs. if you want to get them from
buy.com, because they're less expensive for you, enjoy. I was merely offering
an alternative idea, not just for you, but for other people on the list
looking to buy Masada CDs. the prices are "roughly equal", which is all I
said in my initial message.
<<If I really want to support musicians
or people involved in their music I rather send them money directly
than buy music paying more money.>>
there are only a handful of people more involved with Masada than Bruce
Gallanter, and their names are Zorn, Douglas, Cohen and Baron.
<<This is part of the business for the people like Bruce so I don't
think they like the idea that I buy music in their stores because they
are good guys and not because the stores are good.>>
Bruce is happy for people to buy CDs from DMG, no matter what their reasons
are.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 20:29:57 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
>From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
>In a message dated 7/1/00 2:16:40 PM, shkin@shkin.com writes:
>
><< Bruce's prices are good mostly but
>they are not so good for DIW/Avant and he has no CDs in stock pretty
>often. BTW, I have to add tax to the price buying at DTM which makes
>it almost $20 per CD. >>
>
>I just got off the phone with Bruce. he has 7 of the 10 studio discs in
>stock
>right this second, and has the other three on order. he says that he
>usually
>has more than 7 in stock. his prices are $16 apiece for these, and $15 for
>Daled.
I'd buy them from Bruce as well. You don't pay sales tax if you live
outside NYC. On one trip to NY, he even waved the tax on a large purchase,
knowing I live outside the country. Moreover, the time he puts in on his
newsletters exhaustively explaining the content of new releases is enough to
merit our support since clearly his interests are in much more than in
making money on the music. he's an active promoter in the best sense of the
word.
I've bought from the chains as well, and sometimes it's necessary when one
lives far from the centers of musical activity. But the fact is that one
gets much better service from people like Bruce than from the chains. If
he's occasionally out of stock on some items, it's in part because of the
miniscule space his store occupies.
I also buy electronica from David Hodgson in New Mexico, who basically runs
a mail order service on obscure music out of his house. Once again, he's
also a person who puts an extraordinary amount of work into preparing
newsletters, though unlike Bruce he doesn't always do a lot of the writing
himself. It must be incredibly risky for people to invest in large
inventories of music that only a few people want, not knowing how often the
money is going to turn over to recoup the initial outlays. One would have
to be a very obsessive person to even get started.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 16:31:47 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <shkin@shkin.com>
Subject: Re[3]: On-line CD stores again (was: Masada)
Hello Jon,
Sorry if I didn't understand you right. I just didn't like this part
of your initial message: "Masada fans would prefer that their money go
to Bruce, rather than one of the semi-shady online stores".
My point is that music CDs are normal goods so it is ok to find the
cheapest places to buy them and to struggle against so high prices.
Artists are not interested in high prices and especially in high
end-user prices.
________
So, returning to DTM, it was my bad luck probably but several times I
was there I didn't find music I was looking for. Their on-line store
has no normal database/order form so it is always hard to order from
the web.
I really like their web site though because of news, concerts and
reviews and use it very often but not for buying music.
Saturday, July 01, 2000, you wrote to me:
Jac> << Bruce's prices are good mostly but
Jac> they are not so good for DIW/Avant and he has no CDs in stock pretty
Jac> often. BTW, I have to add tax to the price buying at DTM which makes
Jac> it almost $20 per CD. >>
Jac> I just got off the phone with Bruce. he has 7 of the 10 studio discs in stock
Jac> right this second, and has the other three on order. he says that he usually
Jac> has more than 7 in stock. his prices are $16 apiece for these, and $15 for
Jac> Daled.
Jac> I'm not telling you personally where to buy CDs. if you want to get them from
Jac> buy.com, because they're less expensive for you, enjoy. I was merely offering
Jac> an alternative idea, not just for you, but for other people on the list
Jac> looking to buy Masada CDs. the prices are "roughly equal", which is all I
Jac> said in my initial message.
- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: shkin@shkin.com
URL: http://www.shkin.com/
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #984
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