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Zorn List Digest         Friday, June 23 2000         Volume 02 : Number 976



In this issue:
-
       Re: zornchambermusic@angelorensanz
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #975
       if you don't want it...
       xtc
       Sonic Youth/Stereolab live
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #975
       Odp: books
       Odp: dolphymonk!!
       dolphymonk!
       Re: dolphymonk!
       Re: xtc
       Feminism and sorry(not sorry for feminism, sorry for offtopic)
       Ljova as last-minute replacement, monday night @Cornelia
       RE: dolphymonk!!
       Re: Chi-Town >>> Minneapolis
       fishing with John
       Sun Ra corp face
       Chi-Town/Vermont/Minneapolis
       Cleveland info

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:25:08 -0400
From: stephen drury <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zornchambermusic@angelorensanz

many thanks to Dan and Jeni for their appreciative and thoughtful comments
on this concert.  just to clear up a small detail, for the historical record -
"Shibboleth" was originally written for and ensemble including clavichord.
we were unable to get a clavichord for this concert, so made do with a small
(1 manual) harpshichord with the lid closed.  unfortunate, as the
harpsichord sound, even with the lute stop, is completely different from the
clavichord (and the performer, pianist Yukiko Takagi (my wife) had spent the
last month learning the special touch required for a clavichord); however,
the clavichord would probably have been inaudible in that space anyway ...

- --steve

http://www.stephendrury.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 23:53:02 -0400
From: "&c." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #975

A silly newbie question to ask but...what is the story behind the Sun Ra
Arkestra.  I saw a poster for a performance at a college in PA last summer.
I only remember the poster because of the novelty of the spelling of
orchestra.  I hear references made to them quite frequently on the list.
Some people I know have made references to them.  I'm merely curious.
Thanks to any one who can help.

Zach

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:49:07 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: if you don't want it...

after the suggestion that this listserv change it's name, i did some
thinking and realized that my name doesn't suit me as well as i might
like.

a more fitting name for me would be "zornlist." so if you guys are done
with it, pass it over here.

Martin

np. Egberto Gismonti -- Sanfona (does anybody know why all but one of
Gismonti's ECM albums have been suddenly deleted?)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:49:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: xtc

In a message dated 6/22/00 7:16:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< np: xtc - wasp star (apple venus vol. 2)
  >>

how is this record?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:58:04 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sonic Youth/Stereolab live

I saw Sonic Youth w/ Stereolab tonight. Impressive. Sonic's stage presence is
really exciting. Raw, beautiful, noisy. They did a lot of older songs, but
did alternate versions, etc. The new songs were wild...jim o'rourke did some
tweedling too. it kept things interesting.  there was also a projection of
NYC in various areas running throughout the show. the contrast of the
children laughing and running around on the subway with the song "sunday" was
dizzying.
stereolab was good too. really straight..

ben

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:11:36 +0200
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #975

check this to start with:
Saturn Web (Sun Ra, the Arkestra, & Free Jazz):
<http://www.dpo.uab.edu/~moudry>



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:24:07 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: books

From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>

> I think that going so far, Celine reached the limits of the language and
> that the ellipses represent the culmination of his frustration at not
being
> able to spit in the face of the world with words...

Well, he alsmost realizes that - if we take care of the way his prose is
tangible, nearly physical... Her uses word as sounds - they are not only
abstract representations.

> When you read Celine, you quickly realize how hyper-lucid he was (it is
> almost scarry since he can see so much behind the smoke screens that
> conventions and society put in everything we do). When you are so lucid,
it
> is hard to look at the world without such dose of irony and bitterness. He
> did a fantastic job at conveying that with words. But words are just
words,
> and there is a limit to what they can do. I am happy that Celine never got
> political control of any kind, and only used art to express his
bitterness...

Speaking of his political involvement with the nazis (not a very evident
one, BTW), we should IMO see it as a part of general hostility toward the
world. It's true he did not like Jews - but he did not seem to like anybody
very much... (except for wife &cat)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:15:50 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: dolphymonk!!

From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>:

> I have been thinking about a related question, but with litterature:
>
> Why some writers have succeeded so well in writing in a language
> that was not theirs? [besides, of course, their talent]
>
> I am thinking about Nabokov, Conrad, Genet (I know, he is not a foreigner,
but
> his limited education made him almost in the same position as a foreigner
> writing in another language). Why have these artists reached such
phenomenal
> status? Could it be related to an slightly clumsy control of the language
than
> only a "foreigner" (or naive) could reach?

That question is really intersting, and is very special in the case of
litterature because of the very special way one learns the first language.
So i do believe that tthere is a huge difference here between Conrad (who
was polish and only learned later to speak  - and write - english) and
Genet, who put his own native language into work in such an incredible way.
BTW your remark about Genet made me realize that we can look at his style as
of a litterary french style seen from the bottom of the society and its
language. One shall remember that the 'official litterary style' is
something quite institutionalized in french - they have a different tense
(passe simple) that nobody uses in spoken language and that replaces the
passe compose of normal conversation (i hope i did not miss something ;-).
So there are easy ways to 'mark' something as 'litterary' (which Genet did)
or 'popular talk' (which Celine did).

> I sometimes think that Monk is a little bit in this situation, in the
sense
> that almost everybody thought that he did not know how to play (although
> recognizing his incredible imagination and talent). Could his limited
> control of the language of piano (in the traditional sense) be responsible
> in part for what makes him so unique? The same way that a Genet with zero
> education could end up writing one of the most impressive French prose?

Well, the way I see it, limitations (and the fight against it) are necessary
for a great work. Monk is one example, Zappa is another. He fought for
expressing himself and to bypass severe limitations he had (lack of
composing teaching! and the pieces that guy wrote were performed by such
people as Boulez, Nagano, and now Eotvos. Just stunning.) What i like very
much about Zappa is that we see this struggle: we see what he sought, we see
were he failed, and we see what he achieves. We see the work on the music,
not just a finishede product. And the way i see it, Barry, that's much more
interesting.
    There's quite a similiar situation with King Crimson now. Bill Bruford
and Tony Levin are out, and the band goes on with much less experienced and
much less versalite-jazz-virtuoso Trey Gunn and Pat Matselotto (although i
must say that TG has made a terrific progress and it is quite hard to not
call him a 'voruoso'. THE electric bassist, with Steve Swallow of course)
And the result is still the same: interesting things emegre out of a
struggle for creating something new, but not evident. BTW if you have a
chance to catch them live, JUST DO IT.  They' re really impressive, and the
improv are mindblowing. I do think that this is the reason why Zorn often
plays with less experienced players. They have to fight for every good sound
they achieve, and the music we listen to is the story of that fight. It does
not mean that with unexperienced (or 'uneducated') players you'll always get
this 'struggle effect': 'free improv -electronic-whatever' also becomes
quickly a 'style' where there is nothing creative and just the repetioin of
those 'incredible sounds',  'wicked rhythmpatterns' etc.
    Just compare the achievements of the new electronic scene with what
Brian Eno did. (i do not mean to say that the thing is worthless, just to
put emphasis on the fact that BE changes and fights for the sound)
It's long enough,
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:12:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Graves <[e-mail]>
Subject: dolphymonk!

I think an artistically limited range of
options is certainly more conducive to greater creativity. To expand
the idea from technique to creation of music, you only have to look at the
origins of jazz and blues to see how people can create unique and
beautiful art under limited conditions. I'm always amazed when I think
about washtub basses or steel drums: instruments made from the materials
around, when traditional instruments are too expensive.

Jamie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:20:45 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: dolphymonk!

Hence the wonders of Rock and Roll

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:22:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: xtc

the songs are fine, no real ground breaking, other than Andy Partridge seems
to be adding Keith Richards type guitar to the Beatles, beach boys influence
that he has been exploring in the past 10 years

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:48:54 CDT
From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Feminism and sorry(not sorry for feminism, sorry for offtopic)

Well well well,
with all this recent talk on the list name i feel even worse for how
drastically off topic this is.
but i'm desperate (well, sort of desperate) to find an intelligent email
list on feminist subjects.  onelist/egroups either didn't fit my preferences
or only had two or three members.  i figured there had to be at least on
person on this list who knew of one or two good ones.

i'm not really interested in feminists who only call themselves this because
Sarah McLaughlin calls herself one,
  and i'm more interested in people who educate themselves a la Betty
Friedan and Susan Faludi
rather than Naomi Wolf/Robert Bly.

   again, i know this is horribly off topic but i don't really know where
else i could find a trustworthy recommendation.

  thanks in advance,
    -samuel y.



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:56:26 -0400
From: "Ljova" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ljova as last-minute replacement, monday night @Cornelia

Hi!

I'm now a last-minute replacement for this interesting show on Monday nig=
ht.
Peter Herbert is Austrian, now lives in NYC. I've heard him improvising
several times, and am very fond of his work.

If you're free, come check it out, I'd be very glad to see you.  Let me k=
now
if you're planning on coming.

Warmest,

Ljova

********************************
Peter Herbert - An evening of chamber music

Monday, June 26, 2000, 9:00 p.m.

Featuring:
Alexandra Montano (vocals), Mary Wooten (cello), Ljova (viola), John
Mettam (percussion), Mike Holober (piano), Mark Helias (bass), Peter Epst=
ein
(alto), Peter Herbert (bass)

Program-compositions by Peter Herbert:
'fragments of a city' for tape, 2 basses and alto (NY premiere); 'climbin=
g'
bass concerto, originally for string orchestra, now for piano and bass so=
lo
(NY premiere); 'muhler' for alto and low strings; the fifteen coins for l=
ow
strings, mezzo and percussion, poem by Jorge Luis Borges (world premiere)

This concert is made possible with the support of the Austrian Cultural
Institute New York.

The =93one drink minimum=94 Contemporary Classical Series
Cornelia Street Cafe
29 Cornelia Street
(between Bleecker and West 4th)
New York, NY
[phone]

Peter Herbert Page: http://www.azizamusic.com/peterherbert/
Cornelia Street Cafe page: http://www.corneliastcafe.com/
Ljova page: http://Ljova.com/

- --------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
[e-mail]
http://Ljova.com/
Listen to my music:
http://mp3.com/Ljova/ (improvisations)
http://mp3.com/LevZhurbin/ (compositions)
http://mp3.com/FreeBach/ (Free Bach Project)

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:11:41 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dolphymonk!!

>'free improv -electronic-whatever' also becomes
>quickly a 'style' where there is nothing creative and just the repetioin
>of those 'incredible sounds',  'wicked rhythmpatterns' etc.
    >Just compare the achievements of the new electronic scene with what
>Brian Eno did. (i do not mean to say that the thing is worthless, just
>to put emphasis on the fact that BE changes and fights for the sound)

The "free improv-electronic-whatever" offers nothing creative and consists
only of repetition?  Is this what you mean to say?  These performers don't
"fight" for or "change" the sounds?

Whose work did you have in mind?


>We see the work on the music, not just a finishede product. And the way i
see it, Barry,
>that's much more interesting.

I think there is plenty of "work" or "struggle" evident in a recording of
improvised electronic music.


Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:23:31 -0700
From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Chi-Town >>> Minneapolis

I'm another person considering a possible move to either Minneapolis or =
Chicago and I'm impressed with the creative music activities in Chicago... =
Any info on the scene in Minneapolis? Is there one? 8-)

- -Miko Biffle


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:23:34 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: fishing with John

I just saw an episode of this three(?) volume series last night.
John is John Lurie of Lounge Lizards fame.  The show is home movie quality.
John takes friends of his out fishing.  The episodes I saw included shark
fishing with Jim Jarmusch and fishing for Red Snapper with Tom Waits in
Jamacia.  The high point for me was when Tom Waits put a Snapper in his
pants to help with depression.  There is narration thoughout in a sports
event kind of way.  Pretty tounge and cheek.  There's also a bunch of
bizzare sounds - school children, cows - and music accompanying the film.
Funny stuff, especially if you like the fishermen.

Matt Wirzbicki

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:37:06 CDT
From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sun Ra corp face

hey,
i was in big fat corporate-face Barnes'n'noble and saw a pretty and colorful
hardcover in the music section about Sun Ra. didn't have time to look
through it.  i'm not huge on reading biographical works about musicians
cover to cover but Sun Ra seems so important to me on a cultural,
sociological level and in relation to civil rights and philosophy and stuff.
   any thoughts on this book or perhaps other publications about the sun
god?
  thanks,
   -samuel y.



________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:54:23 CDT
From: "samuel yrui" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Chi-Town/Vermont/Minneapolis

I'm another person considering a possible move to either Minneapolis or
Chicago and I'm impressed with the creative music activities in Chicago...
Any info on the scene in Minneapolis? Is there one? 8-)

- -Miko Biffle


Well,
lived in Minneapolis for two years.  Einsturzende Neubauten came a couple
years ago. Stereolab's visits have been semi-frequent. sonic youth and
stereolab came a little while ago.   and Minneapolis is a "twin city" with
St. Paul.  St. Paul is largely disliked by people who are "street, yo!" i.e.
streetsmart and low income, or pretending to be low income. i also dislike
St. Paul and maybe that's because i'm low income.  St. Paul is really clean
and known for being very conservative or republican or catholic etc.  mostly
white people there.  my point? The twin cities sports ONE jazz club: The
Dakota.  which is located in St. Paul.
  I have spent lots of time at this club for lack of any other good weekend
shows that I have been able to find.  i like traditional jazz, so that's
okay.  the stuff played there is almost always traditional stuff.  with
exceptions only to those of national repute- Dave Holland came this year and
Steve Lacy w/Roswell Rudd.
  Cecil Taylor played at Tedd Mann Concert Hall at the University of
Minnesota campus.  Bill Frisell (i think) came to the Walker Art Museum with
his group (octet).  Chick Corea played somewhere (at 50$ a ticket).  and Pat
Metheny played somewhere at 35-40$ a ticket.

  not a bad feast of musicians.  for me, it hasn't been enough access to
GOOD and AFFORDABLE shows.  most things i couldn't go to because i couldn't
afford it.
  it just depends how much good live music you need per month. if you don't
need too much, minneapolis should be pretty good.
    local improvisatory/avant garde scenes are scarce, and in my opinion
full of lame, pretentious gimmicks.

on this note...  I am moving to Vermont this fall... 50 miles from Albany NY
in SW Vermont.  anything around here other than me having to go to Boston or
NYcity?  does Albany have anything?  how is their orchestra/how much do
seats cost?

   i know, i know, I ramble.
        -samuel y.


- -


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:15:26 -0400
From: Matthew Moffett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cleveland info

I'm going to Cleveland next week for a writer's conference and am just
curious about good places for live music, cd's, bookstores, etc.  Email
me privately so we don't clog up the list.  Thanks in advance.

Matt

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #976
*******************************


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