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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #975
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, June 22 2000 Volume 02 : Number 975
In this issue:
-
RE: dolphymonk!!
Re[3]: zorn in your face
chicago question/cohen's hand
Re: books
Re: books
Re: books
Re: books
Re[3]: zorn in your face
Re: zorn's humour
Re: zorn in your face
alan hovhaness dies
transmissions festival update
Celine
music in Russia
Re: Celine
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:47:06 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
Subject: RE: dolphymonk!!
>>i think the whole distinction of bad instrumentalist/good musician or
>>vice versa is sort of interesting because it raises questions of the
>>relevancy of instrumental technique as opposed to 'musicality', but of
>>course it's all based on
>>value judgements.
>I have been thinking about a related question, but with litterature:
>Why some writers have succeeded so well in writing in a language
>that was not theirs? [besides, of course, their talent]
>I am thinking about Nabokov, Conrad, Genet...
>...Why have these artists reached such
>phenomenal
>status? Could it be related to an slightly clumsy control of the
>language than
>only a "foreigner" (or naive) could reach?
I think that perhaps the clumsy control that they have lends itself to
certain idiosyncratic uses of the language that native speakers would not
neccessarily have employed. These unusual methods eventually become a
recognizable style, distict from traditional prose or spoken english.
>I sometimes think that Monk is a little bit in this situation, in the
>sense that almost everybody thought that he did not know how to play
>(although recognizing his incredible imagination and talent).
I would agree entirely. In either music or literature it obviously takes
talent and imagination to rework the material of the field but it may be
that the 'untrained' or the 'outsider' has a leg up by virtue of his/her
lack of familiarity with the building blocks of the repertoire.
Matt Wirzbicki
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:06:32 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <shkin@shkin.com>
Subject: Re[3]: zorn in your face
Hello Jason,
Thursday, June 22, 2000, you wrote to me:
JT> I definitely recognized a lot of folks that I see out at tonic and
JT> the KF. Namely an older bearded gentleman with his wife.
We always meet them on concerts. Definitely on all Zorn's and
Friedlander's shows. Seems they are very special people because they
were sitting at VIP seats on Zorn's Chamber Music and had Bell
Atlantic Jazz Festival VIP cards. Do you know who are they?
JT> There was this kid named Lauren [I Think] he is an alto player, I saw
JT> him play with a buddy of mine anders griffen about 4 years ago in
JT> white plains, he was hot then, I wonder where he is at now. Does
JT> anyone know who I am talking about.
Yes, I think. He was helping with equipment on Beat The Donkey at
Knit.
JT> Of course bruce lee galager was front row dead center sporting is
JT> tzadik tshirt.
Yes, we were almost behind him on the next row.
- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: shkin@shkin.com
URL: http://www.shkin.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:07:36 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: chicago question/cohen's hand
chicago's a fun town. i lived there for a few years, back when. it supposedly
has the greatest annual average temperature disparity of any place on the globe,
so get ready.
the aacm is alive and strong, and great stuff happens there. watch for edward
wilkerson, mwata bowden, kahil el'zabar, ernest dawkins. clubs are the hothouse,
the empty bottle and fred anderson's velvet lounge. also the green mill, in
uptown, is a beautiful old club once owned by capone. usually pretty pedestrian
stuff there, but sometimes there's good stuff and it's worth a visit.
a new scene has grown up since i left. (not sure what i mean by 'new', younger
and white, i suppose). ken vandermark, jeb bishop, kent kessler. myopic books, i
believe, is a venue for that scene.
of course jim o'rourke lives there, but i don't think he's ever home. and this
'tortoise' band i'm always meaning to check out.
listings and a newsgroup are at:
http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/~tisue/chicagonow
also check for shows at:
www.hothouse.net
>>>
the interesting, and unanswered, question about cohen's hand is not about color
but size. it's definitely bigger than it's match.
kg
np: xtc - wasp star (apple venus vol. 2)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:30:18 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: books
On Thu, Jun 22, 2000 at 10:40:42AM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> Hoops! I meant:
>
> "Man [in general] is naked and there is no hope."
>
> as a way of ultra-simplifying Celine's philosophy. I did not mean
> "the man" as Celine.
How could Celine have that depressing a worldview, even after singing
"My Heart Will Go On"?
*ducking*
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:19:44 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: books
On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:30:18 -0400 Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> How could Celine have that depressing a worldview, even after singing
> "My Heart Will Go On"?
Hum... I miss the joke. Maybe you have to watch TV to get it :-).
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:40:01 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: books
Hum... I miss the joke. Maybe you have to watch TV to get it :-).
Patrice.
http://www.celineonline.com/albums/cd1408.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:40:33 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: books
That song, by Celine Dion from the soundtrack to Titanic, was a gigantic
hit last year. If you were in any public places with forced music (such
as supermarkets) odds are that you've heard it.
On Thu, Jun 22, 2000 at 12:19:44PM -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:30:18 -0400 Joseph Zitt wrote:
> >
> > How could Celine have that depressing a worldview, even after singing
> > "My Heart Will Go On"?
>
> Hum... I miss the joke. Maybe you have to watch TV to get it :-).
>
> Patrice.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:16:22 -0400
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re[3]: zorn in your face
>Hello Jason,
>
>Thursday, June 22, 2000, you wrote to me:
>
>JT> I definitely recognized a lot of folks that I see out at tonic and
>JT> the KF. Namely an older bearded gentleman with his wife.
>
>We always meet them on concerts. Definitely on all Zorn's and
>Friedlander's shows. Seems they are very special people because they
>were sitting at VIP seats on Zorn's Chamber Music and had Bell
>Atlantic Jazz Festival VIP cards. Do you know who are they?
Stephanie & Irving Stone.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:04:51 +0000
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: zorn's humour
I always found that Zorn took his own persona pretty lightly.
A few years ago in Victoriaville I was in the hotel restaurant and the only other
people were JZ, Dave Douglas, Joey, Marc Ribot. The shy young French woman who was
helping with publicity approached Zorn to tell him that someone wanted to interview
him. Zorn started into a high-pitched tirade about not having done an interview "in
10 years" but then started to crack himself up. He finally told her politely that
he wasn't interested.
James Hale
kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
> dan observed:
> "zorn's infectious good humour
> (which i guess has not always been the case?!?!) transferred to the
> whole audience, imbuing the gig with a remarkably intimate feel ... "
>
> i was surprisd the first time i saw jz play, about 9 yrs ago, how much he seemd
> to love what he was doing and how happy he was just to be there. i remember him
> grinning ear-to-ear, sitting on the drum riser, thurston moore on his left,
> haino keiji on his right, basking in it.
>
> and that's more or less the attitude he has whenever i've seen him. he might run
> to the edge of the stage to violently flip off a press photographer or
> something, but he's generally having a good time once that's taken care of.
>
> reason i say it is i think the image he's projectd (moreso in the past) makes
> him seem like an angrier, more volatile person than he is. he's also generally
> friendly and approachable.
>
> i don't mean to come off all starry-eyed. there's certainly things he does that
> i find uninteresting (like any artist, at least any artist who tries so many
> different things). but i do think it's, well hasty anyway, for someone who (i'm
> guessing) doesn't know the man to talk trash about him. someone else said here
> they didn't want to contribute to zorn's huge ego by calling this list after
> him. i wonder where he got that impression. because jz recognizes his place in
> the market and puts a lot of work into attaching his name to a nonprofit label
> that calls a fair bit of attention to a lot of musicians who otherwise wouldn't
> get it? i guarantee there's nobody on this list who knew all the acts tzadik has
> releasd before they came out. and from my few contacts with the man, he's never
> struck me as egotistical. there's been unkind personal assumptions made about
> other people, loren mazzacane connors for one, here. let's keep the conversation
> to music (and books and film and electronics and travel spots and...) and leave
> out the name-calling, of each other or the folks we write about.
>
> whew! i didn't really even know i was going there.
>
> ah well,
>
> kg
>
> np: john fahey - the transfiguration of blind joe death
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:10:27 +0000
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: zorn in your face
The Stones are legendary in NYC jazz circles.
I sat with them last year at Masada at the Angel Orensatz Foundation, and
Irving regaled me with stories of when he was Ornette Coleman's (unpaid)
bookkeeper.
These people are living jazz historians.
James Hale
Rich Williams wrote:
> >Hello Jason,
> >
> >Thursday, June 22, 2000, you wrote to me:
> >
> >JT> I definitely recognized a lot of folks that I see out at tonic and
> >JT> the KF. Namely an older bearded gentleman with his wife.
> >
> >We always meet them on concerts. Definitely on all Zorn's and
> >Friedlander's shows. Seems they are very special people because they
> >were sitting at VIP seats on Zorn's Chamber Music and had Bell
> >Atlantic Jazz Festival VIP cards. Do you know who are they?
>
> Stephanie & Irving Stone.
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:02:55 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <thesubtlebody@hotmail.com>
Subject: alan hovhaness dies
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/late/22cnd-obit-hovhaness.html
Also, a good but very short review of Hovhaness' place in contemporary music
on NPR's All Things Considered for 6/22/00. Might not be archived yet, but
it will be:
www.npr.org
- -----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:06:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ethan <eclauset@webslingerZ.com>
Subject: transmissions festival update
july 14-15 cat's cradle, carrboro, nc
Pita, Fennesz, Rafael Toral, Kim Cascone, Hazard, David Grubbs, John
Fahey, Marcus Schmickler, Alan Licht, Dean Roberts, Pelt, Lucky Kitchen,
rhBand, Vote Robot, Idyll Swords, Zuerichten, Keenan Lawler, Miss
Murgatroid + films & audio installations
transmissions site www.transmit.org
here's a comprehensive transmissions update.
please let us know if you have any other questions -
thanks for being on the list.
best,
keenan
___________________________
trans oo3 announcements:
>> site additions
>> trans.missive
>> trans oo2 cd
>> trans oo3 installations
>> trans oo3 filmmakers
>> tickets
>> >>additions to site ( transmit.org) : :
there are currently new photos and
sound clips of the forthcoming trans oo2 cd.
more audio + photos will be added soon, along with video footage.
>> >>we are also anticipating the arrival of the transmissions
magazine, trans.missive, which features:
bernhard guenter's program notes from trans oo2
interview with pelt, by chris toenes
for tune un der sun (dialogues on haiku, with john hudak and julie
shapiro)
a series of trans oo2 photgraphs taken by dwayne dixon
interview with rafael toral, by chuck johnson
archival information from last year's festival
details for the upcoming festival
and more.
>> >> trans.missive will also include a cd of
live recordings from last year's festival
with pieces by:
phil kline
chuck johnson
john hudak
micro-east collective
loren mazzacane connors
fm:xpanse
windy and carl
>> >>trans oo3 installations are being prepared by:
s.fenton
chris rice//ian nagoski (10-11pm on 7.15.00)
marc faris
(taking place at go! studios on 7.15.00 from 7-11pm, except where noted)
alyssa wood
keith obadike
(these installations will be running on friday and
saturday at cd alley)
>> >>the following filmmakers will have work screened at the
cat's cradle on 7.14.00:
marc masters
chris jolley
julie shapiro
jim haverkamp
robbie land
jesse seay
>> >>tickets
trans oo3 tickets are dwindling. If you are planning to attend the
festival, we highly advise that you purchase your tickets as soon as
possible. tickets are available through the transmit.org site, at CD
Alley and Schoolkids Records in Chapel Hill, at Aquarius in San Francisco,
at Ear X Tacy, Ground Zero and Underground Sound in Louisville, and via
mailorder from us.
by mail : : send a check or money order for $30 per
weekend pass payable to Keenan McDonald:
trans oo3
c/o keenan mcdonald
po box 1816
west jefferson, nc 28694
_______________________________________
info@transmit.org > transmit.org<
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:26:11 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Celine
Ken wrote:
<Miller was living in Paris at about that time and I wonder if one
influenced the other. Or was it like Sonny Stitt and Bird? Stitt insisted
that he developed his style before he heard Parker.>
Yes, Miller has written in his essays about the influence of Celine on his
work.
Patrice wrote:
>Although VOYAGE AU BOUT DE LA NUIT and TROPIQUE DU CANCER are both
>phenomenal
>first attempts of young writers (not based on age criteria, but fame),
>Celine
>kept experimenting more and more, and, IMHO, Miller got more and more self-
>centered and annoyingly self-indulgent.
Actually, Tropic of Cancer wasn't Miller's first work. It was his first
published work, but Crazy Cock was his first work actually. Yes, Miller
becomes a rather tired and repetitive act after awhile.
>But Celine wrote those awful pamphlets... Which means that
>as a human being, it is hard to defend Celine.
>
Julia Kristeva did a pretty good job of trying, despite the awful pamphlets.
You might want to check out the Powers of Horror, a rejuvenating reading
of Celine's work, particularly chapter 6. She reads Celine against the
grain, as it were, and so it's a useful book just to see how such a reading
proceeds. Perhaps many already know that Celine was a trained medical
doctor who wrote his dissertation on Ignaz Semmelweis, who, during the
Napoleanic era and before the discovery of microbes, had located the causes
of puerperal fever, an infection that develops during childbirth.
Semmelweis' great contribution to medicine was in recommending to doctors
that they wash their hands after handling corpses and before attending to
pregnant women. This leads Kristeva to remark at one point: "A foreigner
[Semmelweis], a solitary, on the fringe of the profession, insane in the
end, persecuted by everyone, the inventor of obstetric hygiene had what it
takes to fascinate not only those suffering from obsessions but, more
deeply, those who fear decay and death at the touch of the feminine [Celine
on both counts]."
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:50:41 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: music in Russia
Going to be in Moscow and St. Petersburg for most of July. Any suggestions
for venues and music would be most appreciated. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 22:15:58 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Celine
At 10:05 AM 6/22/00 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>First VOYAGE AU BOUT DE LA NUIT was written in 1932 and TROPIQUE DU CANCER in
>1934, which puts Celine first (by a very small margin, at least from a
>publishing date point of view).
>
>Celine wrote those awful pamphlets... Which means that
>as a human being, it is hard to defend Celine.
I've mentioned Frederic Vitoux's biography before, and have to bring it up
again. First and easiest, although he says that no one knows when Voyage
was completed, it was started in 1929 and Celine started sending it around
in 1931. However, on the pamphlets, Vitoux is eloquent and places the
pamphlets in quite a bit of context that puts some of the complexities back
into the picture. 'Each individual lives with his or her own
contradictions, his or her own zones of shadow and light.... There exists
within each of us a solid core of unyielding opacity. We can only orbit
around it and try to shed light on merely fragmentary aspects of that
mysterious (and dubious) unity known as man.' He goes on to discuss
several possible factors behind Bagatelles and the other pamphlets.
I would encourage anyone interested in the pamphlets and Celine's behavior
during the war (as well as all other aspects of Celine's fascinating life)
to read Vitoux's biography, admirably translated by Jesse Browner.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.
- -- Satchel Paige
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #975
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