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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, June 21 2000       Volume 02 : Number 972



In this issue:
-
       Odp: books
       Re: books
       Re: Odp: Kobo Abe
       [zorn] tag in subject
       Re: Odp: books
       RE: Zorn List Digest V2 #970
       Re: "Balderunner"
       Re: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)
       Re: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)
       zorn@angelorensanz follow-up (long - too long)
       one extra ticket for masada extravaganza tonight
       ||closed||one extra ticket for masada extravaganza tonight
       Re: books
       Kobo Abe's Cinema
       Re: Kobo Abe's Cinema
       Re: books
       Re: dolphymonk!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:56:09 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: books

Mike Biffle <[e-mail]> wrote: (About Philip Dick)
>His "mainstream" stuff is also good reading... The Broken Bubble, The Man
Whose Teeth Were >All Exactly Alike...

Confession of a crap artist is also great... What is The Broken Bubble

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- ----- Original Message -----


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:14:00 -0700
From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

> I'm down with PKD as well.  _VALIS_ has that quality of integrating the =
strange so well into the mundane that you can find yourself convinced of =
its possibility.  Funny, I always thought that the final trilogy was =
_VALIS_, _The Divine Invasion_, and _Transmigration_, and that _Albemuth_ =
was a first attempt at what would later be _VALIS_. Anyone have confirmatio=
n either way?

You're absolutely correct... I was in "automatic" writing mode and excited =
that PKD is popping up as an influence. The Divine Invasion is absolutely =
amazing... The biblical tie ins in all of them are just mind boggling. =
Really great twisted informed takes on the document...=20

- -Miko


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:12:51 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Kobo Abe

At 8:42 PM +0200 6/21/00, Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
>Is Abe the author of a book 'a women from the dunes' (or something like it -
>again i got it in polish translation)? If so, i give my voice for this
>author.

Yes, he's the same guy. It's _Woman in the Dunes_ in the English
translation; I have no idea of the original Japanese title.   As a
topic, he certainly isn't out of place on the list, since his books
tended to explore his (often disturbing) obsessions.

- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:20:37 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: [zorn] tag in subject

> any objection against automatically adding a tag [zorn] to the
> subject of every posting (i hope the list admin reads this...).

well, that would certainly take care of the 'no content' problem.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:20:40 -0700
From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: books

>>His "mainstream" stuff is also good reading... The Broken Bubble, The =
Man Whose Teeth Were >All Exactly Alike...

> Confession of a crap artist is also great... What is The Broken Bubble

Another of his so-called mainstream novels... wrtten in 1988 right after =
1987's Mary and the Giant. Both are fairly melancholy books and seem =
semi-autobigraphical... (main character works in a record store) etc. I =
like both nearly equally.

- -Miko


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:30:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Rich Ladew <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V2 #970

<Zach wrote in zorn-list #790:

<I have been a tad confused by why the name of this list is Zorn <List. I've
only been subscribing for a short while and <quite ,frankly don't care about
some of the things discussed. <For instance I don't get to New York too
frequently, so that <leaves my concert going options limited. I do find some
<things very informative and some of the exchanges witty. I've <found out a
lot about Zorn and my horizons have been broadened <beyond Zorn as well. I
say change the name so newbies know what <they're getting. It is some what
disappointing if you are <looking for a dedicated Zorn mailing list.>>

well, here's the thing:  zorn-list has been going strong for many years now,
and despite the fact that many artists are discussed here, I find the list
quite focused in terms of modern, creative/experimental/whatever its being
called this week music.  I'm sure some people who have been posting/lurking
for several years could back me up on this.

the problem with focusing just on zorn is that there isn't always news, so a
lot of people on the list will be left with questions like what is Naked
City/Masada/etc. like?  These are all great questions, but with no new Zorn
content to talk about a lot of the great side discussions/arguments
featuring Zorn sidepeo[ple would go away.

maybe someone should start a "zorn-list-newbie" group or something
comprable.

NP:  Anthrax "Among The Living" (who says we zorn-listers take ourselves too
seriously??)

Rich Ladew
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:43:53 +0200
From: fas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Balderunner"

hey!

i have never been there either but someone posted the phone number
of the villette jazz festival in paris a few weeks ago in
this mailing list:

> They're also playing in Paris at La Villette Jazz festival
> on the 5th July - tel [phone].

just call there!

f.

ps: i will go see them in london on july 3rd at the barbican centre.
   (+44/(0)20/7638-8891)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:52:14 -0400
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)

I am for a name change.

I personally don't like the fact that this list is the "Zorn" list
because it makes me feel like it's zorn-centric, which I don't feel
it is.  I wouldn't say Zorn is in the top handful of my favorite
artists, and frankly there is a lot of stuff that he does (musically,
and otherwise) that I don't like.  I am subscribed because I am
interested in the NYC Downtown scene, European improv, and some 20th
Century composers.  Basically, I think it would be safe to say that
we're all interested in "modern (or contemporary) creative improvised
music."  Perhaps avant-garde or progressive has to be a part of the
music...  In any case, I perfer not to be called a "fellow zorn-head"
or "zornie" or whatever other zorn names have been inflicted upon all
members of the list.

My feelings also stem from the fact that I don't want to contribute
to the inflation the ego of Mr. Zorn any more than I can help it.  By
discussing the wide, WIDE range of musics we all love under the the
moniker "Zorn List" I feel that that is what we are doing.

I don't agree with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" because there is
always room for improvement with anything.

Dan Hewins

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:59:06 -0700
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)

>>>I don't agree with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" because there is
always room for improvement with anything.<<<

Ending this thread would improve things.







- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:07:54 +0100
From: dan hill <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn@angelorensanz follow-up (long - too long)

hi all

well, a couple of people got in touch after i expressed surprise that
no-one else had commented on the zorn chamber works show at the angel
orensanz foundation as part of the bell atlantic festival (inc. the
great stephen drury, who was very clearly there!)

so i thought i'd write about it anyway ... particularly after it was
pointed out to me that there appears to be less emphasis on zorn's
music for acoustic instruments on the zorn-l ...

as to this relative quietness, i guess that with an artist like zorn,
who has covered so much musical ground (albeit with strong continuity
across all genres), the zorn-list is bound to represent a fairly
diverse bunch of tastes (which is why the zorn-l is a good name -
there's lots of room for maneouvre)  ... i know from the site i
co-produce, motion, which attempts to cover good new music across the
board i.e. from avant-garde composition to 2-step garage, that the
broad range of tastes can cause friction occasionally, and that
certain musics tend to induce louder responses than others - perhaps
it's easier to vocalise thought about zorn's 'other' music (also
bearing in mind his introduction to the arcana book about the
difficulty of talking about complex music) ... consequently, please
forgive me if what follows isn't a sufficiently detailed or
intelligent analysis of the music ...

but for the record, i found the angel orensanz concert utterly
enchanting. i'd had a great new york day. the city itself is so
enchanting to this jaded londoner - even on a flying, and
consequently slightly jet-lagged visit - witnessing numerous examples
of the quiet drama the city seems to effortlessly generate.

i'd spent the afternoon drifting around downtown with a
friend/musician who introduced me to the delights of the chinatown
end of canal street (a semi-serious d=E9rive, with nick zammuto, who's
work i can wholeheartedly recommend to people), witnessed a minor
fire in a dorm at NYU walking along prince street, ambled through the
lower east side in the 100-degree heat, kids setting off fire
hydrants etc. (i'm not used to that heat, but actually enjoyed it,
perhaps because i had nothing particularly to accomplish), and
chanced upon the foundation (i knew it was a different number of
norfolk st. to tonic - that's all!) ... what a beautiful building. an
old synagogue as far as i could tell (reminding me of the beautiful
"hidden" synagogue in london's princelet street, though much larger),
converted in idiosyncratic fashion into an artist's foundation, and
here into a concert venue. the hall was pretty hot too
(air-conditioning not really being an issue in early-20thC synagogue
design) and filled up rapidly. i ended up sitting behind arto
lindsay, ikue mori and zeena parkins ... bizarre (for downtown
gossipmongers, arto and zorn hugged warmly at 'half-time', arto
congratulating zorn and the two generally joshing around ... zorn
thanked a less-than-enthusiastic young girl for being dragged down to
the show by her parents, saying "don't worry. it'll be more rocking
next time!", perhaps alluding to the upcoming gigs with
lombardo/frith/laswell?)

zorn introduced the show, thanking us all for "coming downtown to
hear his uptown music"! in fact, jz's role/presence throughout was
interesting, enthusiastically applauding "his" musicians and
generally beaming broadly. he was also responsible for shifting
around all the instruments between pieces - hilarious. he somehow
managed to convey that he was perfectly happy to do this, but also
made a bit of a show of it. "that's the other difference with
downtown gigs - the composer has to shift the instruments around!",
he noted at one point ...

the foundation felt like the perfect setting for the concert as far
as i was concerned (in a non-religious spiritual sense?!?!), though
it was hot, and somewhat noisy (the first musicians had to contend
with a rogue air-conditioning unit firing up and then being shut
down, creaky old chairs in the congregation, dogs barking, sirens
etc., but that all added to the experience for me - concr=E9te indeed)

i can't remember the exact running order, but it started with "music
for children" and ended with "kol nidre", with a friedlander solo
piece "untitled" and possibly several pieces from "string quartets"
(http://motion.state51.co.uk/reviews/563.html)  .... the musicians
were stephen drury, jennifer choi,and william winant ... followed by
zorn's string quartet - whom he referred to as "the de sade quartet"
with a knowing smile (joyce hammann and mark feldman (violin), lois
martin (viola) and erik friedlander (cello)).

the music was beautiful. far more lyrical than i'd heard before.
there seemed to be more simply beautiful music this time - perhaps it
was the performance, but there was far less emphasis on simple shock
through continual displacement, and a lack of fear of producing a
music which was about achieving a sense of the sublime - even a
prettiness on occasion, though never twee and always countered, and
consequently highlighted, by contrast. there was also the gorgeous
dissonance, rapid scene-shift, sharp contrast, and intense dynamics
we've come to look for in zorn's music.

in this first piece, i also remember jennifer choi's near sine-wave
high notes on her violin, and her twisting, diving, very physical
performance ... i loved, as i had previously at london's barbican,
the interplay between stephen drury and william winant - their timing
is quite extraordinary. drury is such a fine player, utterly attuned
to the other performers, carefully constructing the foundations for
the music ...

erik friedlander then performed an awe-inspiring, intense solo cello
piece, working from memory and performing flawlessly for 15 minutes+,
sweat dripping from his brow, hair shredded from his bow ... he got a
deserved standing ovation. he's an incredible player.

the "de sade" quartet performed as brilliantly as i'd seen them at
the barbican ... i particularly adore "kol nidre" (for all it's
arvo-part-isms) and it seemed apposite to play it in this setting ...
the other pieces were akin to the work on "string quartets" (they may
well have been the same pieces - i couldn't catch all jz's
introductions, and they *felt* a little different) ... complex, rich,
rollercoasters ... i particularly enjoyed the quartet's ability to
shift easily to high-register playing (almost echoing yoshihide's
recent work for tzadik), countered by their sheer power when all are
bowing furiously in unison, and one moment when the players whipped
the air with their bows, drawing warm smiles from the crowd, just as
william winant "admonishing" a pillow with his cane had earlier -
zorn gently took the piss out of winant, introducing him as "william
wildman winant ... rock star" ... it was great, as ever, to watch
winant, veering between precise 'traditional' percussion work and
ripping his plywood boards, and rolling dried peas(?) around metal
bowls ... he often looks like a overgrown school boy, with his tongue
stuck out in total concentration (interesting to note the key role he
played in syr4, following the link posted to the list yesterday) ...

for such serious, complex music, and on such a hot day, the whole
event was incredibly well-received and zorn's infectious good humour
(which i guess has not always been the case?!?!) transferred to the
whole audience, imbuing the gig with a remarkably intimate feel ...
congratulations to all involved, and particularly john zorn.

anyway, for all my inability to talk about the music in detail, i
hope this has given a decent *impression* of the gig ...

all the best,
dan.

[ also, a few days before, i'd enjoyed thurston moore's improv gig at
tonic, with nels cline and zeena parkins (i think, again moore's
mumbled unamplified introductions were pretty inaudible). equally
intense, in different ways - hugely enjoyable ... the dj olive trio
(olive, kim gordon & ikue mori) was less successful imho, but still
interesting ]

- --
- ---+ dan hill [state51]
    ---+ new reviews on motion [21.6.2000]:
< indo | amon tobin | os mutantes | robert rich | hia/biosphere |
graham haynes | zed bias >
             http://motion.state51.co.uk/   +---



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:06:19 -0400
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: one extra ticket for masada extravaganza tonight

please respond asap if interested. It is at the symphony space on
95th street at 8, ticket is 31$

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:52:28 -0400
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: ||closed||one extra ticket for masada extravaganza tonight

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:56:29 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

At 10:17 AM 6/21/00 -0700, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>Nothing compared, for exemple, with GUIGNOL'S BAND, which is almost
>impossible to read in French

I made it through the whole last trilogy in French then found that one of
our local libraries actually had one of the famous pamphlets (Ecole des
Cadavres, I think).  I was very excited, until I got the book -- most of
the pages still uncut -- and tried to read it.  First, *very* long, over
400 pages (not what I expected from a "pamphlet").  But the language, more
vitriolic than anything else Celine wrote, and immensely unreadable.
Didn't make it through two pages.  I saw a couple of the pamphlets at the
bouquinists on a recent trip to Paris, for 900ff (around $120 US -- cheap),
but I'd need a glossary for these.  I'm still a big Celine fan, but have
resigned myself to sticking with his masterpieces, since the pamphlets
won't be republished, much less translated, any time soon.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:08:41 +0900
From: "Akira SAITO" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kobo Abe's Cinema

Hi,

>It's _Woman in the Dunes_ in the English
>translation; I have no idea of the original Japanese title.

The original title is the same meaning in Japanese.
You know there is the movie _Woman in the Dunes_,
directed by Hiroshi Teshigahara, written be Kobo Abe,
music by Toru Takemitsu?

Akira Saito (from JAPAN)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:05:01 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kobo Abe's Cinema

Akira SAITO wrote:

> You know there is the movie _Woman in the Dunes_,
> directed by Hiroshi Teshigahara, written be Kobo Abe,
> music by Toru Takemitsu?

Great movie, great music, imho.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:14:50 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

>From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]
>Celine should be
>THE writer for hardcore 'torture garden' fans (although not for the Masada
>addicts...;-).

Actually, I think Octave Mirbeau's "Torture Garden" is a more appropriate
choice.


________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:21:50 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphymonk!!

>From: [e-mail]
>
>oh, and i saw john zorn play last night. there. now i belong on the list
>again.
>
>kg (laughing at himself dutifully)
>

I have to admit that your two posts have had me in stitches.  Isn't it
interesting how in the states the requirement of a sense of humor, whether
it's mandated in personal ads or job applications, is so prevailing as to
become "serious."  I think this mainstream "requirement" is a sign of a loss
of spontaneity.
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #972
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