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Zorn List Digest       Wednesday, June 21 2000       Volume 02 : Number 971



In this issue:
-
       RE: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)
       dying ground
       Re: should we change this list's name? NO!
       evan lurie
       zorn-list / its name, etc. (was: murakami)
       should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)
       dolphymonk!!
       SY in Boston + new Thurston CD (was SY in NYC)
       Re: books
       Thoughts on Mahfouz
       Re: Marclay/Arto
       Zorn and Prelapse at Tonic- June 22nd!
       Re: books
       Re: books
       [zorn] tag in subject ?
       Odp: Marclay/Arto
       Odp: books
       Odp: [murakami-l] OT: More Japanese literature
       Odp: Names
       Odp: books

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:43:11 -0400
From: "Sean Terwilliger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)

Actually, when this list was first started, it was called John Zorn (and
other downtown musicians)

- -Sean


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:52:03 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: dying ground

> DG is playing in Warsaw on Thusday, so, any info would be apreciated..

i saw the expanded dying ground at the knit last year. it was nothing like the
record (which i love) and was not even that good. maybe i was just disappointed
at the complete change in sound. i remember it as a jumbled attempt at pop
instrumental a la bacharach. i'm sure i'm selling it short, but i know i wasn't
pleased.

but maybe if you forget the 'dying ground' connection and consider it a kang
show, and if you just really wanna see the players, you'll enjoy it. kang misses
as much as he hits with me.

btw, i think it's a testiment to mr. z that this list is as diverse and
occasionally combative as it is. there are few artists who work in, promote and
call attention to as wide a spectrum of expression as he does (through his
labels, the visuals and other things cited on his own releases, his one-time top
10 lists on the web site, etc.) i was surprised to see someone say they're not
even a zornfan, but then maybe i shouldn't be. it just adds to the sorta mix jz
himself seems to enjoy. changing the list name, in any event, would be silly.

leastways, i think.

np: charlie johnson "the boy in the boat"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:51:52 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Jon Mooneyham)
Subject: Re: should we change this list's name? NO!

The Zorn-list is just fine as is.

I subscribed as a Zorn fan, and I've not been disappointed. I think few
discussions here can be construed as off-topic, insofar as they mirror and
expand on various Zornic interests and connections... and the Tzadik
catalog alone presents a fine case for just how far afield a thread can
ramble and still be germane.

Further, the general qualitative level of exchanges here is far, far higher
than any other list I'm on - gobs of (mostly) well-reasoned information on
all manner of arcana and minutiae. (Except for debates like this one...
8P~ )

And I haven't been to NYC in fifteen years - all the, uh, "scene reports"
both make me drool with envy *and* thank Yahweh I don't live there ('cause
I would be one sad broke motherfucker after blowing all my $$ going to all
those shows)...

Jon M.

_________________________
Radio Free Norman
96.7 FM



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:35:57 -0400
From: "Bob Kowalski" <[e-mail]>
Subject: evan lurie

Anyone familiar with the following release?  =20

Evan Lurie and Yoshitada Minami, Sony

Its listed on the Marc Ribot site discography and as a HUGE fan of all =
things Evan (Lurie, that is) if he really has a duet album than I must =
seek it out.  Is this a typo?  If not, anyone know where to find it?

Cheers=20

BK



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:49:30 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn-list / its name, etc. (was: murakami)

Maurice Rickard wrote:


> And does anyone else find it amusing that a few people are angry
> about this being called the zorn-list?  "Zorn," after all, is "anger"
> in German, right?  So if they're angry about it, maybe the name is
> appropriate....

good point! you made me chuckle!

(and yes, it is true that zorn means anger in german.)

yours,
patRice

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:51:28 -0700
From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: should we change this list's name? (was: Re: Names)

> lot about Zorn and my horizons have been broadened beyond Zorn as well.  =
I say change the name so newbies know what they're getting.=20

Consider Zorn's scope and you'll realize the discussion is (mostly) about =
Zorn alumni or kindred spirits.

> It is some what disappointing if you are looking for a dedicated Zorn =
mailing list. =20

Well considering Zorn's scope, this list is right on target... He plays =
with nearly everyone in Japan and New York, so they all get discussed due =
to their involvement with Zorn, his compositional and improv esthetics, =
etc. That's what Zorn is about.

Finally... I wouldn't have found this list had Zorn's name not been =
attached to it.=20

- -Miko


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:42:08 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: dolphymonk!!

ok, i gotta say it, peter, even if your larger point is a good one. monk not an
instrumentalist?!? listen to his left hand plop as his right hand sprinkles.
listen to his solo stuff. listen with your eyes closed. i dunno, dude, listen!

and while the head is still swimming: dolphy has a lack of conception!?! good
god, man. 'out to lunch' is one of the single best jazz recordings ever. easily.

oh, and i saw john zorn play last night. there. now i belong on the list again.

kg (laughing at himself dutifully)

np: fletcher henderson "variety stomp"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:37:27 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: SY in Boston + new Thurston CD (was SY in NYC)

I thought I'd jump in with my 2 and 1/2 cents on this...I got to see the
Boston SY show (also with O'Rourke, who's doing the whole tour apparently)
and even hang out backstage afterwords and chat with them all (no coke
backstage, by the way...just Coca-Cola!).  I've been a big SY fan since
Sister, and probably seen about 10 shows by now....I was REALLY excited to
see them, as the last time I'd seen them was in NYC (with David Ware opening)
and that show had been SOOO amazing!  At the NY show a year ago they had
played about 2 hours, and did alot of extended jams that were simply
transcendant...their control over feedback, etc. had just gotten "better with
age".  Anyway, the Boston show was great also, but not as long (maybe an hour
and 15?) and much different...It was much more "song oriented" instead of jam
oriented, and of course, O'Rourke was playing... But I thought they played a
fantastice set none-the-less.  Anyway else see it?

Also thought I'd mention that for those of you interested in Moore's improv
leanings, I'm releasing a CD by him in a trio with saxophonist Wally Shoup
(who grew up playing improv with LaDonna Smith and Davey Williams in
Birmingham, AL and has since relocated to Washington where he's been running
the Seattle Improvised Music Festival for 15 years) and percussionist Toshi
Makihara from Philly.  It was recorded live at a show I put on last September
in Harvard Square.  That was the night that Hurricane Floyd hit, and we went
ahead with the show anyway.  200 people braved the storm to see the show (the
FIRST time they'd EVER played together actually!) and it garnered great
critical reviews in such pubs. as the Boston Phoenix and even Spare Change
(our "Homeless Paper"!).  Thurston also did a solo acoustic guitar set that
night, and the CD includes one piece from that set (called "Altar Boy, Church
Basement"...he he he...)

The CD is at the manufacturer at this very moment, and will be available for
purchase on Monday (June 26th).  It's Sublingual Records # SLR007: HURRICANE
FLOYD, and you can read some of the press quotes from the performance (as
well as getting ordering info) at WWW.SUBLINGUAL.COM

Jonathan LaMaster
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:17:05 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:56:42 +0200  "Marcin Gokieli" wrote:
>
> 1) I'm a great fan of L.F. Celine, especially 'mort a credit' (in english
> it's 'death on installment plan', if i remember correctly). 'Voyage au bout
> de la nuit' (it should be 'travel to the end of night'), 'd'un chateau
> l'autre' (from one castle another?) and 'entretiens avec professeur Y' are
> also great. The 'chateau' are a little bit difficult to read - and there

Nothing compared, for exemple, with GUIGNOL'S BAND, which is almost
impossible to read in French (I gave up after 50 pages -- a frustrating
experience since it was the first time I was giving up on a novel that
I thought was fantastic but could not read). I am wondering how the
translation could be. But since there are people reading Japanese
litterature translated in French from English translations...

> BTW, are there any Philip Dick fans around here ( he's quite well known so i
> do not knw if he neeeds any recomendation)?

Count me there! Does anybody else write as nightmarish stories as THREE
STIGMATAS OF PALMER ELDRICH? If yes, I am open to recommendations.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:22:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: James Graves <[e-mail]>
Subject: Thoughts on Mahfouz

to the person who asked about Mahfouz:

I saw Dave and Mahfouz at the KF Old Office a year (or two?) ago. The band
is Jamie Saft on organ, Ikue Mori doing her drum electronics, Kenny
Wolleson and Dave playing trumpet and some electronic setup with CD and
tape players, samplers and lots of pedals. It sounded like a small group
"Sanctuary" with very loose, free compositions. Great group, but I don't
think they plan to release any albums, at least according to Bruce at
Downtown Music Gallery. The name comes from a writer from the middle east
(Egpyt I think...), but I don't know anything about him. Anyone else know
who Mahfouz is/was?

Jamie


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:23:09 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marclay/Arto

>Andreas wrote:
>
>Arto is great as a songwriter and singer - not a guitar player. About 10-15
>years ago he decided to concentrate on these things and not to really learn
>the guitar. On his latest CDs are lots of phantastic guitars played by Marc
>Ribot, Vinicius Cantuaria, Romero Lubambo, Bill Frisell, Amadeo Pace... Arto
>is still making the noise.

Arto made an art of non-playing guitar.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:28:47 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn and Prelapse at Tonic- June 22nd!

Attention New York City area Zornsters!  Don't forget- Zorn and Prelapse at
Tonic tomorrow night, Thursday June 22nd, 8pm.  Last night's DYING GROUND gig
was excellent!  Zorn stopped in briefly to check it out after his brief,
unadvertised gig at the Knit with Yoshida Tatsuya (of the RUINS).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:30:07 -0700
From: "Mike Biffle" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

>> BTW, are there any Philip Dick fans around here ( he's quite well known =
so i do not knw if he neeeds any recomendation)?

> Count me there! Does anybody else write as nightmarish stories as THREE =
STIGMATAS OF PALMER ELDRICH? If yes, I am open to recommendations. =
Patrice.

It's interesting to me how much PKD resonates with many of my musician =
friends, while many others I've introduced him to think he's just weird or =
not "real" science fiction etc. Strange.

I love the final trilogy of Valis, Transmigration of Timothy Archer and =
Radio Free Albemuth.

I'd also highly recommend A Scanner Darkly, Maze of Death, Now Wait for =
Last Year, UBIK... His "mainstream" stuff is also good reading... The =
Broken Bubble, The Man Whose Teeth Were All Exactly Alike...

- -Miko


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:38:55 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: books

At 10:30 AM -0700 6/21/00, Mike Biffle wrote:
>I love the final trilogy of Valis, Transmigration of Timothy Archer
>and Radio Free Albemuth.
>
>I'd also highly recommend A Scanner Darkly, Maze of Death, Now Wait
>for Last Year, UBIK... His "mainstream" stuff is also good
>reading... The Broken Bubble, The Man Whose Teeth Were All Exactly
>Alike...
>

I'm down with PKD as well.  _VALIS_ has that quality of integrating
the strange so well into the mundane that you can find yourself
convinced of its possibility.  Funny, I always thought that the final
trilogy was _VALIS_, _The Divine Invasion_, and _Transmigration_, and
that _Albemuth_ was a first attempt at what would later be _VALIS_.
Anyone have confirmation either way?

Thanks for the other recommendations, too.

- --
Maurice Rickard
http://mauricerickard.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:26:15 -0400
From: "Vanheumen, Robert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [zorn] tag in subject ?

hi.
i recently switched email address for a couple of lists to my hotmail
address. now i'm horrified to find out that hotmail cannot filter on
'To' address! only from address and subject! now i wonder if there is
any objection against automatically adding a tag [zorn] to the
subject of every posting (i hope the list admin reads this...).
thanks
robert


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:39:06 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Marclay/Arto

> instrumentalists: Sun Ra, Carla Bley, Thelonious Monk... and some other
> virtuosos with a lack in conception and they have/had there best moments
as
> a sideman: James Carter, Marc Ribot, Eric Dolphy...

I'll fight to death for dolphy's 'Out to lunch'. Any volounteers for a
crusade ;-)?
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:51:38 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: books

Patrice L Roussell wrote (quoting me)
> > 1) I'm a great fan of L.F. Celine, especially 'mort a credit' (in
english
> > it's 'death on installment plan', if i remember correctly). 'Voyage au
bout
> > de la nuit' (it should be 'travel to the end of night'), 'd'un chateau
> > l'autre' (from one castle another?) and 'entretiens avec professeur Y'
are
> > also great. The 'chateau' are a little bit difficult to read - and there
>
> Nothing compared, for exemple, with GUIGNOL'S BAND, which is almost
> impossible to read in French (I gave up after 50 pages -- a frustrating
> experience since it was the first time I was giving up on a novel that
> I thought was fantastic but could not read). I am wondering how the
> translation could be. But since there are people reading Japanese
> litterature translated in French from English translations...

I had a similiar experience with 'Feerie pour une autre fois' (the title is
already hard enough to translate...) . Incredible thing, but I just could
not read it.

> > BTW, are there any Philip Dick fans around here ( he's quite well known
so i
> > do not knw if he neeeds any recomendation)?
>
> Count me there! Does anybody else write as nightmarish stories as THREE
> STIGMATAS OF PALMER ELDRICH? If yes, I am open to recommendations.

Just try 'A scanner Darkly' and ' flow my tears, the policeman said'.
'Valis' trilogy can be intersting, but IMO its better to read some other PKD
stuff before.

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:42:11 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: [murakami-l] OT: More Japanese literature

Muaric Rickard wrote:
> Since I've brought up Abe, (and to go off-topic from the Murakami
> thread) I've got to say that _The Box Man_ is another mind-blowingly
> great book.  Disturbing, but great.

Is Abe the author of a book 'a women from the dunes' (or something like it -
again i got it in polish translation)? If so, i give my voice for this
author.
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:32:19 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Names

Zach wrote:
>  I've found out a
> lot about Zorn and my horizons have been broadened beyond Zorn as well.  I
> say change the name so newbies know what they're getting.  It is some what
> disappointing if you are looking for a dedicated Zorn mailing list.

One thing i like about this list is that it is not limited to the questions
like 'is yamatsuke eye' the same person as yamantaka eye' or 'what kind of
sax JZ uses'.  I find it natural for people who like JZ to listen to other
stuff as well. More - it would be strange to be a 'zorn fan' in the sense to
not listening to other stuff (maybe even more then JZ). The whole image of a
'fan' that we got from the pop culture - a guy who cries when a guitarist
leaves a band, who buy every record even if there is just a new version of
an old song new on it - is quite disgusting IMO. For example, the
fripp/crimson list is much more boring then zl just because there's only
talk about the last cd, 'is fripp going to change guitar', 'what is a
fernandez sustainer' etc. They've got their advantages (just look to the
website www.elephant-talk.com! It's faboulous!), and it would be hard to get
such a 'no problem loose subject' conversation as here because of the number
of KC fans comapred to JZ fans, but the thing remains: ET is boring zornlist
is not. People who like JZ and want to talk just drop in, and that's all.
I'm not at all disturbed by NYC announcements (ok they make me a litle bit
angry...). And you always have the subject... (ok except if it's RE: zdigest
2388).
Just my two cents,
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:58:30 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: books

> I'm down with PKD as well.  _VALIS_ has that quality of integrating
> the strange so well into the mundane that you can find yourself
> convinced of its possibility.  Funny, I always thought that the final
> trilogy was _VALIS_, _The Divine Invasion_, and _Transmigration_, and
> that _Albemuth_ was a first attempt at what would later be _VALIS_.
> Anyone have confirmation either way?

AFAIK what you say is correct. The source would be a biography  i read, a
got one (an american author whose name i forgot, with PKD photo on cover...)

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: books


> At 10:30 AM -0700 6/21/00, Mike Biffle wrote:
> >I love the final trilogy of Valis, Transmigration of Timothy Archer
> >and Radio Free Albemuth.
> >
> >I'd also highly recommend A Scanner Darkly, Maze of Death, Now Wait
> >for Last Year, UBIK... His "mainstream" stuff is also good
> >reading... The Broken Bubble, The Man Whose Teeth Were All Exactly
> >Alike...
> >
>
> Thanks for the other recommendations, too.
>
> --
> Maurice Rickard
> http://mauricerickard.com/
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #971
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