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Zorn List Digest        Wednesday, May 17 2000        Volume 02 : Number 941



In this issue:
-
       perverse?
       Re: Cobra in Seattle?
       gnr, lmc
       Re: halana q & it's a shame
       Re: Cobra in Seattle?
       Re: halana q & it's a shame
       =?iso-8859-1?Q?Odp:_var=E8se_/_webern_?=
       Masada Box, & sound engineers
       Re: perverse?
       Re: Masada Box, & sound engineers
       upcoming shows at hotel2tango (fwd)
       Re: Odp: varΦse / webern
       lee konitz and cool (was: something completely...) (LONG)
       Re: perverse?
       Re: Masada Box, & sound engineers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 07:41:57 +0200
From: Johannes Zakrzewski <[e-mail]>
Subject: perverse?

The jackals are wise - they don't talk about music.
So what do you think....isn't it in a way stupid, paradox, if not in
itself perverse to talk about music? Isn't the whole idea of music just
about bringing about something that words can't? I think I know what Mr
Zorn's answer would be, anyway...

Johannes


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:24:59 PDT
From: "Schei▀e Junge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cobra in Seattle?

Actually, as far as Cobra in Seattle goes- there is a group that performs it
at a club called I-Spy fairly regularly. I am part of that group. It is
called SIL2K (Strategic Improv Laboratories 2000)there are probably about 20
or so musicians involved. With the games usually including anywhere from
8-15 musicians at a time.

www.sil2k.org

We also perform some other game pieces that are just as cool and fun to play
as Cobra.

John Schuller
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:34:47 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: gnr, lmc

i bought appetite for destruction on vinyl when it came out. after a few years,
i sold it. several years later i bought a factory cassette of it and, two months
ago, went ahead and got the cd. i'm not sure if there's any other recordings
i've owned on three formats.

..

i wish, oh how i wish, that the loren box set was the grail i had hoped for.
it's informative -- i understand loren an' his blues a lot more now. and i
wouldn't say it's bad, but i do think 4 cds is kinda redundant. on the other
hand, i wouldn't want to hear edited versions (as i assume the single disc has),
since the length seems central to the, uh, big long waviness of it. so i'm not
sure what to tell you. if you can (relatively easily) afford it, go ahead and
get the box. it's still fairly inexpensive for over 4 hrs of stuff. but you
might not listen to it a whole lot.

or maybe you will.

oh, and:

anton! ennio!

that's all.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:32:04 +0100
From: "Alastair Wilson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: halana q & it's a shame

I don't have the Halana CD in question, but I do have one with Tony Conrad,
Alan Lamb, William Parker, Keiji Haino and Pauline Oliveros pieces. I
acquired it secondhand and had no idea it was part of a series or anything.
Can anyone give me more info?

On the topic of shameful CDs, I'm rather embarrassed to own all 9 Monkees
albums on CD, plus the rarities discs. No matter how often I try to justify
them by pointing out the great Nesmith songs, psychedelic mayhem of "Head"
and classic Brill Building stuff, the spectre of "I'm Gonna Buy Me A Dog"
and *anything* that Davy Jones sings lead on creeps up. Oh dear.

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 6:56 PM
Subject: halana q


>
> does anyone have the halana cd that begins with a bernhard gunter track
(also
> incl fahey, grubbs, yoshizawa, licht). is the gunter track entirely
silent, or
> is it a bad pressing, or am i missing something? i'm sure my coworkers
would be
> pleased if i always listened to cds like this, but i'm curious
nevertheless.
>
> nnp (now not playing): bernhard gunter: un lieu pareil a un point efface
(part
> 1) (maybe this is french for 'a bit of nothing in your face' or
something...)
>
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 11:38:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reuben Radding <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cobra in Seattle?

Most of the recent COBRAs in Seattle were organized by local cellist Brent
Arnold:  http://www.speakeasy.org/~friction/

and some by the SIL2K organization: www.sil2k.org

I don't believe Wayne or Frisell have been participating.

- ------------------->
Reuben Radding
[e-mail]
<------------------

On Wed, 17 May 2000, Brian Keisner wrote:

>
> I heard Cobra has been happening a lot in Seattle. Does anyone know who does
> this and where I can check it out? I know Frisell and Horvitz both live
> here, are they part of it?
>
> Brian
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:03:46 -0400
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: halana q & it's a shame

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Alastair Wilson" <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: halana q & it's a shame


> I don't have the Halana CD in question, but I do have one with Tony
Conrad,
> Alan Lamb, William Parker, Keiji Haino and Pauline Oliveros pieces. I
> acquired it secondhand and had no idea it was part of a series or
anything.
> Can anyone give me more info?

Halana is a really good magazine that focuses on, I suppose, "non-academic
experimental music" like that made by the people named above.  I think
there's four issues now, each with a CD except the first issue.  I used to
have the CD you do and quite liked it, but it disappeared along with the
magazine and the guy I lent it to a couple of years ago.  Very unfortunate.
Website is www.halana.com if you're interested. . .  They have some excerpts
of articles.

- -Jesse


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:50:31 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Odp:_var=E8se_/_webern_?=

patRice wrote:
> edgar var=E8se: the complete works (riccardo chailly)
> chailly, i feel, does a great job conducting the dutch "royal
> concertgebouw orchestra" (on cd1), a great one imho. cd2 is performed b=
y
> the asko ensemble.

enough: i'll buy it ;-)

> po=E8me =E9lectronique is featured, too; transferred from the original
> master.

what is that piece, btw?


 >Anybody knows anything about the new 'complete
 >  webern - boulez 2000' box?
 > haven't heard about this! but i've got one cd that came out no longer

Well, a new ***6CD*** boulez/webern box is out this year.

 Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<Thanks to this excellent device
man shall reenter paradise.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:47:17 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada Box, & sound engineers

>From: Nils <[e-mail]>
>I was wondering if anyone knows whether there are plans to release the
>Masada recordings as a box set.  That would be a very good thing...

I actually pestered Bruce Gallanter of Downtown Music Gallery about this
yesterday, and he said that the project was not even in sight.  I believe
Zorn's projects and releases for the forseeable future will involve new
recordings of unrecorded game pieces, further releases of chunks of the
PARACHUTE box, and at lest one CD of new (?) chamber music.  I, too, await
the Masada box with great longing.  Though I do find it cheesy that they'd
reissue all the discs again so soon after their first pressings, especially
since DIW is going strong and all the originals are in print.  But there's
much to be said for commodity fetishism.  Does anyone else wish they'd skip
the studio box and put out a massive live box, maybe with some other
configurations (a la Bar Kokhba, Circle Maker, etc etc.) along with the
quartet?  Anyway, when I have my own label....

P.S.  What else has engineer Jim (John?) Anderson done, in addition to the
Masada studio records?  Those albums are so well recorded, it's amazing;
very warm and intimate, very tight.  The sparks fairly jump off my stereo.
Quite apart from the quality of a musical performance itself, engineers like
Anderson, James Farber, and Joe Ferla, seem to make all the difference for
the way a performance _registers_ with me.  I notice that Dave Douglas gives
co-production credits to Farber for his work on SOUL ON SOUL.  I like that,
quite a lot.

- ----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:57:51 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: perverse?

>From: Johannes Zakrzewski <[e-mail]>
>....isn't it in a way stupid, paradox, if not in
>itself perverse to talk about music? Isn't the whole idea of music just
>about bringing about something that words can't? I think I know what Mr
>Zorn's answer would be, anyway...

I am suspicious of those who pre-empt, stifle, limit, or proclaim the
impossibility of discourse _on_ music---or on/of anything else---in advance.
  What _should_ we be accomplishing by talking about music, or dancing about
architecture?  I have no particular longing for the accomplishment of
objectives, and I don't see anything "stupid" about the paradoxical.  We
talk ABOUT music: spatially, that means we have no intention of
apprehending, comprehending, or defining it.  I am on this list because it
reuqires me to abandon these projects; good therapy for the compulsion to
conclude.

The jackals you mention aren't wise: they are cowards, and travel in packs;
they giggle mirthlessly, becuase they must; they are scavengers.

Is it perverse to talk about music?  God, I hope so.

- -----s, perv

________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:56:55 -0400
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada Box, & sound engineers

on 5/17/00 4:47 PM, Kristopher S. Handley at [e-mail]
wrote:

> But there's
> much to be said for commodity fetishism.

Like what? I'm *serious*, I need some ammo for when my wife notices how full
up my CD drawers have become since last she looked. I need such ammo every
few weeks.

Rrrrr
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp,
David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett
Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

UPDATE January 10, 2000:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale:
***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:06:48 EDT
From: "Mathieu Belanger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: upcoming shows at hotel2tango (fwd)

Hello,

Here is a message that was sent to godspeed you black emperor! mailing
list. Those of you who lives in the Montreal arae could be
interested...

Bye,

Mathieu

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
- -------------
this weekend, at the mighty hotel2tango, 173A Van
Horne, in Montreal, 2 evenings of experimental music:

saturday, may 20, 9pm, $8 at the door:
- - DAVID KRISTIAN (Montreal experimental synth,
ambient, tekno)
- - KEVIN DRUMM (powerbook, electronics, prepared
guitar, from Chicago)
- - ANNIHILIST (voice+effects noise, from Montreal)
- - AMES SANGLANTES (harsh noise, from Montreal)

sunday 21 may, 9pm, $8 at the door:
- - MOLASSES  (folk-noir, featuring 2 members of
godspeed & sam shalabi...)
- - PILLOW (from Chicago w/ fred lonberg-holm on cello)
- - HANGED UP (amazing viola + drums duo from Montreal,
featuring a member of Sackville)
- - DUOLOZ (66.6% of Exhaust: reel-to-reel & clarinet)

B.Y.O.B. as usual.

presented by alien8recordings:
http://www.alien8recordings.com .

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:18:13 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: varΦse / webern

>From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
>Well, a new ***6CD*** boulez/webern box is out this year.

For those interested, it can be found on the usual big-name CD stores
online, as well as under a "Webern" search at www.deutschegrammophon.com.
It appears to be a relatively inexpensive set, and very attractive, though I
don't understand why DG doesn't make the effort market it better (why not a
meager website with info about what the box is all about?).  I have the
so-called complete Webern on Sony (3-CDs) with some involvement by Boulez.
Why is this only 3 CDs?  Have there been "hidden" manuscripts, or posthumous
compositions?

- -----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:25:33 CDT
From: "Kristopher S. Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: lee konitz and cool (was: something completely...) (LONG)

>From: "Gabriel Lichtmann" <[e-mail]>
>Just one question: Lee Konitz is playing in Argentina next month and >I
>want to know your insight on his music, I've loved the few things >I've
>heard, but I would like some advice before I ruin my economy a >little bit
>more.

I can only say that Konitz and several members of the Tristano "school" (is
it fair to say this, anymore?) have been continuously revolutionary in my
listening; as in, "maximum rotation" :).  Questions of innovation or
influence aside, it seems like even with recent vogues in terms of
repertoire (Mark Turner and others covering Tristano, Konitz's relatively
recent high-visibility on ECM and Blue Note, etc.), there's been such a
paucity of _integration_ of the ideas and practices which made that
particular vein of "cool" so fresh, and so persistently avant-garde.  Jazz's
histories are full of these "counterfactual" teasers,   Anthony Braxton's
spoken at length about the "gravillic weight" in Warne Marsh's playing, for
instance; I have no idea what that means, but Brax's reference to "pockets"
(if memory serves) in the lines is terrific; when I listen to Konitz and
(especially) Marsh, I am continuously blown away by the relentless sense of
invention, verve, and brittle humor, the inteligence and casual, almost
cynical complexity.  In a word, there's something distinctly beyond
technique in the very lines that these guys spin.  I hear the same thing
unfold like a muffled desire in Jarrett vis a vis Bley before him; in Lovano
and his many disciples (Seamus Blake, Chris Potter, Chris Cheek, etc
etc.---I know, this is rather tenuous); in Evan Parker, sometimes; elsewhere
perhaps.  I'm sorry to wax breathless, but what I've heard has simply
grabbed me in a way that earlier bebop forms haven't.

Speaking of wax, I could recommend without hesitation (for the fan, but not
necessarily only for the completist) the terrific and beautiful Mosaic
Tristano/Konitz/Marsh box set, which is worth it.  One could also skip this
investment get the fine (and long) single CD THE NEW TRISTANO, which has
great piano trio, multiple-piano overdubs, and quartet w/ Konitz (great
stuff, too)---these recordings are on the box, as well.  The album LEE
KONITZ AND WARNE MARSH, recently reissued, is also great (I think it's on
the Mosaic box---does anyone know if this is the same session?).  The very
early (c. 1948) SUBCONSCIOUS-LEE is mandatory listening, with large doses of
Tristano, Marsh, Billy Bauer, et al.  There's a previously unreleased 2CD
live performance by Konitz/Marsh/the young Bill Evans/Paul Motian/Jimmy
Garrison (way pre-Trane) from 1959---it's on Verve and I think it's great,
plus the sound is surprisingly good.  I was knocked out by Konitz on the
Kenny Wheeler ANGEL SONG record on ECM, which is an exquisite gem with some
of the most gorgeously substantial Bill Frisell I've ever heard: and the
_tunes_, man!  The _tunes_!  Finally, though the consensus seems to be that
the Konitz/Brad Mehldau/Charlie Haden date ALONE TOGETHER is kind of
self-indulgent, I have to say I really like it; Mehldau is a genius and
Konitz is not afraid to transcend the vulgar idea of "tunes", even if it
means a 17-minute "Funny Valentine" (can't remember if that was what
happened, but you get the idea...).  I'd really like some recommendations
along these "lines" (no pun intended) as well; esp. from the Marsh
"completist" I e.mailed privately on this list, whose address I ahve
unfortunately deleted.

BTW, while we're speaking of recording engineers, did ya'll know that
Tristano engineered some of his own sessions?  They sound great.  (For those
who don't know, he was also blind.)

- -----s
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:09:26 +0200
From: Johannes Zakrzewski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: perverse?

"Kristopher S. Handley" schrieb:

> >From: Johannes Zakrzewski <[e-mail]>
> >....isn't it in a way stupid, paradox, if not in
> >itself perverse to talk about music? Isn't the whole idea of music just
> >about bringing about something that words can't? I think I know what Mr
> >Zorn's answer would be, anyway...
>
> I am suspicious of those who pre-empt, stifle, limit, or proclaim the
> impossibility of discourse _on_ music---or on/of anything else---in advance.
>   What _should_ we be accomplishing by talking about music, or dancing about
> architecture?  I have no particular longing for the accomplishment of
> objectives, and I don't see anything "stupid" about the paradoxical.  We
> talk ABOUT music: spatially, that means we have no intention of
> apprehending, comprehending, or defining it.  I am on this list because it
> reuqires me to abandon these projects; good therapy for the compulsion to
> conclude.
>
> The jackals you mention aren't wise: they are cowards, and travel in packs;
> they giggle mirthlessly, becuase they must; they are scavengers.
>
> Is it perverse to talk about music?  God, I hope so.
>
> -----s, perv
>

I take your point....and don`t take the jackal-thing too seriously,  just wanted
to provoke...
I didn't wat to criticize the purpose of a list like this, I just wanted to
raise this question, whatever the answer may be...
anyway, let's continue to be perverse...

J


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:36:23 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada Box, & sound engineers

Hello Kristopher,

Wednesday, May 17, 2000, you wrote to me:

KSH> P.S.  What else has engineer Jim (John?) Anderson done, in addition to the
KSH> Masada studio records?

Jim Anderson recorded lots of music. Masada Chamber projects, James
Carter, Dave Douglas, David Murray, Misha Mengelberg, John Patton and
Cyro Baptista are among others. You can check the list on All Music
Guide (http://allmusic.com/cg/x.dll?p=amg&sql=R51810#APPEAR) which is
not complete I guess.

- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #941
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