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Zorn List Digest         Monday, May 15 2000         Volume 02 : Number 937



In this issue:
-
       RE: Uri Caine/ les noces once more
       Odp: that's not music!
       Re: Uri Caine/ les noces once more
       Thomas Chapin Box Set "Alive"
       things to do in Paris
       Re: Thomas Chapin Box Set "Alive"
       Zappa in Berlin
       wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe
       Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe
       RE: that's not music!
       Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe
       Speaking of the devil.....
       Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe
       Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe
       Odp: that's not music!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:27:27 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Uri Caine/ les noces once more

> Thia festival starts right after Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, so, why
> don't you just come to Poland for 2 weeks? That's what Anthony Coleman
> did last year, he came with Ribot and Cubanos Postizos, then he was
> playing his Sephardic Trio in Krakow, but he say to see Michael Alpert
> and other performances. That's probably the period of the year when
> Poland has most to offer - in terms of music.
Yes, and few days after, the 11.07.2000, one could move to Berlin to see
Ensemble Modern conducted by Peter Eotvos playing Zappa. WOW! I just
wondered what are they going to play...
During june - july i'm gonna see
King Crimson (twice)
Massacre, Sex Mob, Carter/Tacuma, Metheny/Brecker/Golding/Stewart (Artur,
daj spokoj, Metheny naprawde potrafi grac, a Brecker na zywca to rewelka -
bedzie fajny koncert...), etc
(Warsaw Summer Jazz fest)
Uri Caine
EM/Eotvos doing Zappa
Quite nice...
BTW - speaking of Peter Eotvos, i've just bought a hungarian disc(just came
back from hungary) of Stravinsky's Les Noces , about which we had a small
discussion here few weeks ago. An excellent recording that covers both the
small ensemble and four pianos versions,  and quite cheap (i paid for it
3100 forints, which is about 10 dollars). The booklet says that there were
plenty drafts of various instrumentations, even one with no vocals (if i
understood correctly)
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:25:48 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: that's not music!

Julian wrote:
> want from a work. But many composers do give us their own insight, just
> take Zorn for example - most of his stuff has some sort of 'story' behind
> it, and most of his cds have liner notes/pictures telling those stories. I
> know that for me, many works wouldn't have quite the power that they have
> without that aspect, Leng Tch'e for example...
yes, but their relation with the music is far from being simple... they are
not simple illistartions of the music, they are rather contexts, or
associations, one can have to start. And again, music is complex - it can
never be reduced to some picture or words. They can help the listener, set a
mood (Len tch'e is a perfect example), but that's just a place to start a
personal travel, IMHO...
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]
<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:57:14 -0300
From: "J.A.Bueno" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Uri Caine/ les noces once more

       ZAPPA   Greggary Peccary & Other Persuasions / Works

         31.05.2000, Hannover, Eroeffnungsveranstaltung EXPO 2000
         06.06.2000, Cologne, E-Werk, CologneTriennale 2000
         08.06.2000, Munich, Muffathalle, Musica Viva
         10.06.2000, Amsterdam, Concertgebouw (Holland Festival)
         05.07.2000, Bologna, Teatro Communale (Bolgna 2000)
         09./10.07.2000, Hannover, EXPO 2000
         11.07.2000, Berlin, Gendarmenmarkt
         09.-10.09.2000, Duisburg, Kraftzentrale (KulturRuhr 2000)


> > Thia festival starts right after Warsaw Summer Jazz Days, so, why
> > don't you just come to Poland for 2 weeks? That's what Anthony Coleman
> > did last year, he came with Ribot and Cubanos Postizos, then he was
> > playing his Sephardic Trio in Krakow, but he say to see Michael Alpert
> > and other performances. That's probably the period of the year when
> > Poland has most to offer - in terms of music.
> Yes, and few days after, the 11.07.2000, one could move to Berlin to see
> Ensemble Modern conducted by Peter Eotvos playing Zappa. WOW! I just
> wondered what are they going to play...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:37:15 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Thomas Chapin Box Set "Alive"

I think this box set is in bad taste. I understand the set includes all eight
recorded albums on KF and an extra EP of live music. The price is cheap and
might be a great deal for someone that is just getting familiar with Mr.
Chapin, but what about the people who own everything but the EP? KF knows
they will want this as well and are in fact cashing in on a dead man, a very
missed talented dead man...Bad taste!!!

Andrew

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:51:09 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: things to do in Paris

Apologies for the cross post.  If anyone has information on musical or
visual art events or installations in Paris or Avignon for the last week of
May, please email me privately.  J'accepte volontiers des informations ou
URLs en francais.

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance
like nobody's watching.

- -- Satchel Paige

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:57:58 -0400
From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thomas Chapin Box Set "Alive"

Hello Poisonhead,

Sunday, May 14, 2000, you wrote to me:

Pac> I think this box set is in bad taste. I understand the set includes all eight
Pac> recorded albums on KF and an extra EP of live music. The price is cheap and
Pac> might be a great deal for someone that is just getting familiar with Mr.
Pac> Chapin, but what about the people who own everything but the EP? KF knows
Pac> they will want this as well and are in fact cashing in on a dead man, a very
Pac> missed talented dead man...Bad taste!!!

Well, it is very common to record companies to add unreleased material
to the box set only. I think we have to say thank you to them that
they didn't add new tracks to the old albums like other are doing
often.

The sad thing about this additional CD that it is not so good really.
It seemed that they just put some concert material on it without any
editing at all. There is even a strange pause between songs and the
multimedia track is not the good video either.

- --
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:13:39 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zappa in Berlin

I've asked for tickets for the Berlin show, but maybe they do the other
cities as well...
> Dear Marcin Gokieli,
> you can order tickets for the Zappa concert in Berlin 11th july by
> Tel# [phone] or 0049-30-8 09 90 90
> or Fax [phone]
> and by e-mail: [e-mail]
>
> Best wishes
> Susanne Tegebauer

Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:17:51 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe

hello everyone,

new releases have been passing me by.  i stumbled unexpectedly on these:

peter brotzmann tentet, 'stone water', okkadisk od12032, and
evan parker / georg graewe, 'unity variations', okkadisk od12028.

does anyone have any comments to share on these?  much appreciated,
whit


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:25:23 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe

Whit Schonbein wrote:
>
> hello everyone,
>
> new releases have been passing me by.  i stumbled unexpectedly on these:
>
> peter brotzmann tentet, 'stone water', okkadisk od12032

Picked up the Brotz the other day. It's one 38 minute piece, just a
small part of an amazing concert at Victo last year. I'm guessing that
since most, if not all, of the other pieces played that day were
represented on the 3-disc set on Okkadisk, Brotz might not have wanted
or felt necessary having duplicate versions on disc. Whatever the case,
'Stone/Water' is a pretty great piece. Though uncredited on the package,
I think it's a Brotzmann composition; it's wide ranging, from tight
unison lines to free squawls to ample solo/duo/trio segments. Kondo and
Gustafsson shine particularly brightly. The penultimate section features
riotous overblowing by the horns over a furiously boiling, quasi-rockish
rhythm. Great stuff. Highly recommended.

Brian Olewnick

NP: John Fahey - Requiea

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:33:05 -0600
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) " <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: that's not music!

Julian wrote:
>> want from a work. But many composers do give us their own insight...for
>>me, many works wouldn't have quite the power that they
>>have
>> without that aspect, Leng Tch'e for example...

(Paraphrased)

Marcin wrote:
>yes, but their relation with the music is far from being simple... they
>are
>not simple illistartions of the music, they are rather contexts, or
>associations, one can have to start.

Yes, I agree that they are not simple and cannot begin to describe the
sounds entirely but choosing to include pictures or insights of the artist
is in a way of invalidating the reactions which do not relate to the images
or insights offered, simply by leading the listener in a certain direction.
It's all a matter of taste really...some artists prefer to give the listener
a more explicit direction.  Personally, I'd rather read the program notes
after the concert.

I believe that some listeners really need these "starting points" as a basis
for reaction...that is really the danger.  As Marcin said, they can serve as
places to begin a "personal travel" but some people have a hard time
stepping out of their front door without them.  (I'm thinking specifically
of some classically minded people that I've come in contact with).

>buty there is something wrong with the
>'theoretical' aproach to music. It is not that theories are or should be
>forbidden, but... maybe it's just that we do not have the right theory -
>or even a correct vocabulary. Music is a complex phenomenon.

"right"??  Personally, I hope we never declare a "right" theory.

Ethnomusicologists obviously struggle with this problem all the time.  There
was a point when certain scholars were heavily advocating the use of
electronic devices to create graphic representations of music.  They have
come a long way since.  Most scholars seem to believe now that the real
musical thought takes place within the musician's mind and shapes - and in
turn is shaped by - the aspects of the musician's culture.  Studies are now
done with the knowledge that all things written by the scholar - as a
cultural "outsider" - are representative only of the scholar's reaction to
the music.

Matt Wirzbicki







- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:21:37 -0400
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe

Brian,

This sounds from your description like the final piece (after the
intermission) that the Tentet played that night.  Is it the one with the
long and quite humorous Kondo solo?

BTW, I don't know if it has been announced officially as to when and
where, but Vandermark told me today (I was interviewing him for Victo)
that the Tentet will be playing, in addition to Vancouver, San
Francisco, New York City, and Boston in July.

And who's going to Victo?  I imagine Mr. Waxman and Ms. O'Connor are.
Brian?  Tom?  Patrice?  Anyone else?

- --Mike


Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Picked up the Brotz the other day. It's one 38 minute piece, just a
> small part of an amazing concert at Victo last year. I'm guessing that
> since most, if not all, of the other pieces played that day were
> represented on the 3-disc set on Okkadisk, Brotz might not have wanted
> or felt necessary having duplicate versions on disc. Whatever the case,
> 'Stone/Water' is a pretty great piece. Though uncredited on the package,
> I think it's a Brotzmann composition; it's wide ranging, from tight
> unison lines to free squawls to ample solo/duo/trio segments. Kondo and
> Gustafsson shine particularly brightly. The penultimate section features
> riotous overblowing by the horns over a furiously boiling, quasi-rockish
> rhythm. Great stuff. Highly recommended.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> NP: John Fahey - Requiea
>
> -

- --
Mike Chamberlain
Teacher, Writer, Broadcaster, Father, Farmer,  Baseball Fan, Jazz Nerd,
Sumo Nut, Bald Guy

"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused."

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:36:29 -0700
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Speaking of the devil.....

>>>BTW, I don't know if it has been announced officially as to when and
where, but Vandermark told me today..........<<<

http://www.calendarlive.com/music/20000513/t000045385.html

Unusual for LA press to offer up such an article.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:16:47 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe

In a message dated 5/14/00 9:20:19 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< And who's going to Victo?  I imagine Mr. Waxman and Ms. O'Connor are.
Brian?  Tom?  Patrice?  Anyone else? >>

if you mean Tom Pratt, he's not on the list any more, but he's coming to the
Musique Action festival in Nancy, France with me and a couple of other people
the week after Victo. there's a web site at:
http://home.worldnet.fr/~ccam/ma.html

the centerpiece of the program is a 24 hour long concert by Keith Rowe's
MIMEO orchestra. it's quite the all-star gathering of talent: Rowe, Thomas
Lehn, Christian Fennesz, Pita, Rafael Toral, Phil Durrant, Jerome Noetinger,
Rafael Toral, Kaffe Matthews, Gert-Jan Prins, Cor Fuhler and Markus
Wettstein. it promises to be pretty wild, I think. I'll file a full report
upon return. anyone else going to this?

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:05:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: wanted: comments on new brotzmann & parker/graewe

no I won't be attending unfortunatley..I did just get
the Nipples CD (brotzman, parker, bailey, van hove,
niebergall, and bennik) ...quite nice I must say


- --- [e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/14/00 9:20:19 PM,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << And who's going to Victo?  I imagine Mr. Waxman
> and Ms. O'Connor are.
> Brian?  Tom?  Patrice?  Anyone else? >>
>
> if you mean Tom Pratt, he's not on the list any
> more, but he's coming to the
> Musique Action festival in Nancy, France with me and
> a couple of other people
> the week after Victo. there's a web site at:
> http://home.worldnet.fr/~ccam/ma.html
>
> the centerpiece of the program is a 24 hour long
> concert by Keith Rowe's
> MIMEO orchestra. it's quite the all-star gathering
> of talent: Rowe, Thomas
> Lehn, Christian Fennesz, Pita, Rafael Toral, Phil
> Durrant, Jerome Noetinger,
> Rafael Toral, Kaffe Matthews, Gert-Jan Prins, Cor
> Fuhler and Markus
> Wettstein. it promises to be pretty wild, I think.
> I'll file a full report
> upon return. anyone else going to this?
>
> Jon
> www.erstwhilerecords.com
>
> -
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:32:18 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: that's not music!

Matthew wrote
> for reaction...that is really the danger.  As Marcin said, they can serve
as
> places to begin a "personal travel" but some people have a hard time
> stepping out of their front door without them.  (I'm thinking specifically
> of some classically minded people that I've come in contact with).
Talking about an uneasy connection between music and image one can remember
that Starvinsky, who wrote very much so -called 'impure' music: ballets,
operas, etc. - claimed that 'music cannot express anythng at all'. What he
meant, apareantly is that images that acomapnied his music wewre quite a
indepedent level of the artistic enetrprise (BTW has anyone seen - at least
on tv, as i did - the 'rake's progress - conducted by Haitink, with
hockney's scenopgraphy? what a show...).

> >buty there is something wrong with the
> >'theoretical' aproach to music. It is not that theories are or should be
> >forbidden, but... maybe it's just that we do not have the right theory -
> >or even a correct vocabulary. Music is a complex phenomenon.
>
> "right"??  Personally, I hope we never declare a "right" theory.
I did not mean it literraly... but look at how many absurd and restrictive
ways of thinking about music are present here - the idea music as something
'putting in good mood', for example is very 'popular' - ie many people
describe music in such terms.
Zorn said (in cole gagne interview), that he does not believe that 'if the
the audience likes hismusic, they've understood it', but rather that it is
enough for them to HEAR the music - 'they don't have to like it'. I see it
as a kind of struggle agiainst this very approach - the idea that music
should give 'pleasure' to the listener, and hence if somebody did not feel
happy during a show, it is worthless. I mean that music can be very complex
and it not the musician's fault if he does not please everyone  - we sould,
imo, look at the whole process of bringing music to life in a more dramatic
way - the artist tries sothing, the events coincede with listener's life,
previous experience with art, and it chnges it - or not. He criticize it or
he loves it.
I'm not sure wether it makes much sense.. ;-). this seems similiar with the
ethnomusicologis's approach you wrote about.
> Ethnomusicologists obviously struggle with this problem all the time.
There
> was a point when certain scholars were heavily advocating the use of
> electronic devices to create graphic representations of music.  They have
> come a long way since.  Most scholars seem to believe now that the real
> musical thought takes place within the musician's mind and shapes - and in
> turn is shaped by - the aspects of the musician's culture.  Studies are
now
> done with the knowledge that all things written by the scholar - as a
> cultural "outsider" - are representative only of the scholar's reaction to
> the music.
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #937
*******************************


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