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2000-05-03
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #920
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, May 4 2000 Volume 02 : Number 920
In this issue:
-
Mystic Fugu Orchestra - "Zohar"
Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: maydiscs
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Art Pepper
Re: R: art pepper
Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Joey Baron (was: Baron/Ribot/Medeski)
Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Art Pepper
Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Art Pepper
re: Art Pepper
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
RE: dave douglas sextet live review
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:38:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: bleh bleh <warzawa@mail.com>
Subject: Mystic Fugu Orchestra - "Zohar"
Hey... Just today, I bought a copy of Zorn/Eye's Mystic Fugu Orchestra -
"Zohar" and much to my surprise, the inside of the liner notes where the
liner notes for the New Klezmer Trio's "Melt Zonk Rewire." I'm not sure if
this is some intentional thing or not.... Has anyone else encountered this?
Vince
______________________________________________
FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com
Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:19:16 EDT
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
In a message dated 5/3/00 9:09:07 AM, you wrote:
<<> the problem, i feel, is that you can't really make a comparison here.
> when was that davis/carter/williams/hancock/shorter thing happening?
> 50s? 60s? this is the fucking 21st century! time's have changed. and to
> me the approach i witnessed last night is no longer interesting. not if
> a band from today goes up there and tries to pull that 50s/60s off.
> (again: i'd rather go and see dream theater.)>>
Whichever century this is, when that Hancock/Shorter/Tony vibe actuallu hooks
up and works, it's still exciting to a great many people. You could email Mr
Douglas and tell him he is improvising wrong, I guess.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 17:25:13 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: maydiscs
On Wed, 03 May 2000 13:45:33 -0500 kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
>
>
> haphazardly culled from the knight-ridder newswire (and does anyone know the
> Jacques Loussier Trio, who look to be doing a jazz goldberg variations just as
> uri caine works his up?):
I don't know if you are joking or not, but Jacques Loussier has been famous
for the past 30 (40?) years for one genius idea:
playing Bach with a jazz approach
It is not as bad as muzak, but in a competition, we might need a picture to
select the winner... Usually you can be sure that somebody who has no
interest in music has at least one Jacques Loussier PLAY BACH record in his
collection (the pun might be the most original part of the whole operation).
And I saw another horror this last weekend: a Richard Stoltzman record (with
Cyro Baptista and others) where Bach music is revisited with a world music
approach (beurk). At this rate, we might learn that Clayderman and Rieux
are precursors and geniuses who got snobbed by close-minded intellectuals.
Why are people getting so desperate? We moved successfully in the next
millenium, didn't we?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:26:34 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
> He wrote: "Oh, and the opening bassline on Stargazer is annoyingly out of
> tune..."
>
> !! It definitely is NOT !!
Huh? I don't understand. I mean, unless he's trying to get quarter-tones or
something, it is so obviously missing the mark. I'm assuming he's going for
Bb-F-Ab, and the F is a bit flat while the Ab is a bit sharp. I'd be happy
to hear that he was going for that effect, but why anyone would make that
the first few seconds you hear on a CD is beyond me.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:44:48 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@jetlink.net>
Subject: Re: Art Pepper
I know this doesn't help much, but seeing Art Pepper live on numerous
occasions with Cables at a club in Malibu I can't remember the name of, with
the Pacific Ocean roaring in the background, rendered hearing him on
recordings unacceptable. Lighting his cigarette when he couldn't find a
match remains one of those cherished moments in my music related memory
banks. His was a delightful presence.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:37 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: R: art pepper
Francesco Martinelli wrote:
>
>
> I enjoyed very much both album on Mole - one is under Milcho Leviev's name -
> also because I had the luck to hear that group in concert. For sickening
> beauty, try Blues in the Night on Fantasy where he plays clarinet; the "last
i'll also check that out. i want a cd he plays clarinet on, because
apparently he was outstanding on that instrument.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:16 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
> (this discussion begins to be lenghty - hope the other guys do not hate
> us;-)
they can send us a bomb letter... ;-)
> It was not that rude, i like people who have clear opininions on music. A
> bad show is a horrible thing. I remember i expected very much from the
> praxis show some two years ago, and the thing (BL, brain, bckthd, +djs)was
> so boring and stupid i left the show.
i'm glad i didn't offend you too much, marcin. thanks!
i know what it's like when you expect a lot and then the performance is
annoying.
but you know what's really bad about the douglas gig i saw: i did not
expect ANYTHING AT ALL! i'd only known charms of the night sky and his
work with masada, so i thought hell i should just go and also support
the people that are promoting this kind of gig.
not expecting anything at all and being that disappointed - well...
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:01 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Velaires@aol.com wrote:
>
> I've heard Perowsky when he sounded great. Maybe there wasn't enough
> rehearsal. DD's tunes are demanding in a specific way and specific in a
> demanding way.
>
when he sounded GREAT??? i cannot possibly imagine...
how demanding douglas' tunes are was NOT the problem. he didn't have a
problem with the music, meters or anything. it was his playing! it was
way too loud throughout the whole concert! i'm a drummer myself, and
think i can judge that.
of course, if mr. douglas and/or mr. perowsky feel it is great that way,
has to be that way. hey: that's their opinion. but it is my right to
dislike it!
> Out of curiosity, what is it you dislike about the Booker Little tribute?
> That was the record that got me hooked on DD. Plus Uri has some great solos
> on that one.
i didn't talk about the cd. they performed one or two pieces live. what
i didn't like about them? it was a feeling. a bit too artsy fartsy
maybe...
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:24 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron (was: Baron/Ribot/Medeski)
James Hale wrote:
>
> The piece is for The Jazz Report, which publishes internationally out of
> Toronto.
> It's bought and paid for, so the magazine has first rights.
> For those who can't find it, I'll post it when the issue is no longer
> current... but that won't be until early fall. In the meantime, I'll try to
> post something else of interest from the interview once I've had a chance
> to transcribe it. Joey is a great interview.
>
i've never seen that publication over here in switzerland.
and i'm willing to wait. so if you still remember in december: do please
post it!
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:09 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
i didn't actually think my review would cause this much reaction.
and i'm getting a little tired of replying to all the mails.=20
it is now getting to a point where i feel it's too time-consuming to
seriously talk about a lot of the subjects that have come up via e-mail.
sorry! but i don't like wasting too much time in front of my computer
screen.=20
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>=20
> well, i agree that the attitude of the sextet is, in a sense, 'regressi=
ve'.
> But that is not a bad thing. Jazz tradition is a great one, and people =
who
> love it should take care of it. the problem appears when it blocks his =
own
i hope id have made myself clear by now: i do love jazz!=20
but to impress me in the year 2000, it takes an awful lot more than what
the dave douglas sextet did at the concert i saw. it was just too
clich=E9d! too show off! how many times have i said this now: i'd rather
go and see DREAM THEATER if i want that!!!
> projects - vide Wynton. Playing mozart is not a bad thing, having 2 per=
cent
> of the repertoire from the 20th century (the case of the f#$$%ing Warsa=
w
> Philharmonic) is awful.
to me, that is a totally different topic. and i don't want to discuss
this here. please. i have neither time nor energy for that...
> Well, maybe he really had a bad day? he's not bad, i've seen him with t=
he DD
> quartet , he was not joey =20
let me say it again: perowsky WAS bad! how can you play fortissimo and
louder only throughout a whole concert!!!???
> And drumming is a difficult thing. drums are very exposed, in a sen=
se.
> For example, it is the only instrument that does a real solo - no
> accompaniement - in quite standard bands. I do believe that it is abus=
ed in
> jazz.
i don't agree with this. but again: it would take too much time
discussing this via e-mail!
> Btw, what kind of music do you (ie Patrice) play? i'm doing keyboards, =
vocs,
> and words for a 'total improv' band (guitars, bass, cl, and me, all the
> stuff treated with the fx)
i used to play in classical orchestras. now i play very little jazz and
big band, a bit of pop and rock. whatever i feel like.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:50 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Art Pepper
Mads Ruby wrote:
>=20
>=20
> My advise would be to forget about=A0 "Pepper + 11" and "meets the
> Rhythm Section". 11 is downright embarrassing big band muzak, and the
> only really amazing thing about "AP meets the Rhythm Section" is that
> he was sober enough to meet them...
>=20
so what do i do? some people say they are the best, you advise me not to
even bother...
the good thing is: i actually do like big band muzak. and if it is
somewhat even a little "embarrassing": great. i must admit that i have a
soft spot for that kind of stuff. sometimes...
> In general, the records he made after San Quentin are a lot more
> interesting. "The Trip" from1976 on Contemporary Records is my
> favorite - Art Pepper at his squeaky best with George Cables, Elvin
> Jones and David Williams. If you don=B4t like that album, you probably
> won=B4t like Art Pepper at all... Also recommended are the Village
great! that sounds like good advice! thanks! (and hey: elvin jones!
yes!)
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:56 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Velaires@aol.com wrote:
>
> Whichever century this is, when that Hancock/Shorter/Tony vibe actuallu hooks
> up and works, it's still exciting to a great many people.
of course! i couldn't agree more!
the one thing though: it is very difficult to get that "vibe" or
whatever you want to call it happening!
the problem with the douglas sextet was: it did not work! not at all.
> You could email Mr
> Douglas and tell him he is improvising wrong, I guess.
>
come off it! please! you were joking, weren't you?
it's up to him, he can do whatever he pleases. if i met him after the
gig, and he asked me what i thought about the performance, i wouldn't
have a problem telling him, but never ever would i be rude enough to
tell a musician like dave douglas that his improvising was wrong. who am
i to judge that?
but i can go to his concert, have open ears and an open mind, listen
carefully, and then i'm free to think or feel that it was the greatest
thing i'd ever heard or the most utter crap ever played on any stage.
and i'm free to share those thoughts/feelings with anyone who cares to
listen.
patRice
p.s.: i'm sure a lot of people at the concert absolutely loved it from
beginning to end...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 11:07:30 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Art Pepper
Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com wrote:
>
> Ah, Art Pepper! I'm partial to his work in the late '70s-early '80s
> with George Cables, although I can't remember names of the albums. But
> you've inspired me to fish them out when I get home....
>
> Martin
>
> -
isn't that one of the great things about this list: somebody writes
about an album you have, but haven't listen to for ages. you decide you
feel like listening to it when you get home - and: bliss! ;-)
patRice
p.s.: in the afterword of art's biography, his wife talks very highly
about his work with george cables. apparently art was also very much
into that stuff.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:37:39 +0200
From: "Mads Ruby" <ruby@mail.net4you.dk>
Subject: re: Art Pepper
PatRice wrote
>so what do i do? some people say they are the best, you advise me not =
to
>even bother...
>the good thing is: i actually do like big band muzak. and if it is
>somewhat even a little "embarrassing": great. i must admit that i have =
a
>soft spot for that kind of stuff. sometimes...
>
Hi,
I may have been a little harsh on the records... + 11, as far as I =
remember is arranged by Marty Paich. Somehow is doesn=B4t quite work for =
me... Quincy Jones has made better albums in this vein. The "Art Pepper =
Meets The Rhythm Section" is a fine album, its just overrated, and =
Pepper is not at his best here.=20
For early Pepper, I would reccomend the sensational quartet album he =
made with Marty Paich in 1956: "The Marty Paich Quartet featuring Art =
Pepper" (V.S.O.P. "10CD/Tampa 28). Pepper is absolutely smokin=B4 here. =
But be warned: its only 25 minutes of music, and its probably hard to =
find, som mabye you should go for "The Return of Art Pepper" on Pacific =
Jazz, another great Art Pepper album.
Regards=20
Mads
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 09:58:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
paRice wrote:
> Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:47 +0200
> From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
> Subject: dave douglas sextet live review
>
> first of all i'll talk about the musicians.=20
> ben perovsky on drums. had i ever played with joey baron in a band (as
> dave douglas has), i would probably cry myself to sleep every single
> night if i then ever had to play again with someone like ben. he was
> horrible! awful!
I saw perowsky with an incaranation of douglas' quartet (mark turner on
sax, ed howard on bass) in april '99, and thought his playing was great.
based on that experience, i have difficulty imagining a performance of his
being "horrible," but i suppose everyone can have an off night.
> the rest of the gig (well, the part i was able to endure) was more
> straight ahead sort of jazz. you know theme, bridge, solo trumpet, solo
> sax, solo bass, solo drums, bridge, theme... mind you, i'm into that
> kind of stuff. but if i want that, i'll stay at home and listen to some
> good ol' recordings like mingus or davis or whatever.=20
As for the 'retro' or 'old hat' nature of douglas' sextet repertoire, one
could attempt to defend it through a consideration of the other sorts of
music constituting the remainder of douglas' output: the sextet pieces are
only one element of a larger project of musical synthesis (in terms of a
diviersity of styles) and exploration. but this is compatible with the
music itself still being worthless. another response might be to point to
the distinctive qualitites of the sextet music, such as douglas' choice of
chord voicings, to make a case that it adds significantly to the jazz
tradition. whatever the case, i enjoy the music, fwiw.
- -whit
ps. as long as i'm posting: has anyone anything to say about chris speed's
latest trio disc? perowsky's at the drums, go figure.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 12:42:35 -0300
From: Linares Hugo <hulinare@bemberg.com.ar>
Subject: RE: dave douglas sextet live review
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Whit Schonbein [SMTP:whit@twinearth.wustl.edu]
> Enviado el: Jueves 4 de Mayo de 2000 11:58 AM
> Para: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> Asunto: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
>
>
> paRice wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:47 +0200
> > From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
> > Subject: dave douglas sextet live review
> >
> > first of all i'll talk about the musicians.=20
> > ben perovsky on drums. had i ever played with joey baron in a band (as
> > dave douglas has), i would probably cry myself to sleep every single
> > night if i then ever had to play again with someone like ben. he was
> > horrible! awful!
>
> I saw perowsky with an incaranation of douglas' quartet (mark turner on
> sax, ed howard on bass) in april '99, and thought his playing was great.
> based on that experience, i have difficulty imagining a performance of his
> being "horrible," but i suppose everyone can have an off night.
>
> > the rest of the gig (well, the part i was able to endure) was more
> > straight ahead sort of jazz. you know theme, bridge, solo trumpet, solo
> > sax, solo bass, solo drums, bridge, theme... mind you, i'm into that
> > kind of stuff. but if i want that, i'll stay at home and listen to some
> > good ol' recordings like mingus or davis or whatever.=20
>
> As for the 'retro' or 'old hat' nature of douglas' sextet repertoire, one
> could attempt to defend it through a consideration of the other sorts of
> music constituting the remainder of douglas' output: the sextet pieces are
> only one element of a larger project of musical synthesis (in terms of a
> diviersity of styles) and exploration. but this is compatible with the
> music itself still being worthless. another response might be to point to
> the distinctive qualitites of the sextet music, such as douglas' choice of
> chord voicings, to make a case that it adds significantly to the jazz
> tradition. whatever the case, i enjoy the music, fwiw.
>
> -whit
>
>
>
I do agree what Whit states and I disagree to compare Douglas' music
with Dream Theatre so far.
Maybe the guy who saw the show had a bad night whatsoever...it's a
possibility.
Who knows?
> ps. as long as i'm posting: has anyone anything to say about chris speed's
> latest trio disc? perowsky's at the drums, go figure.
>
>
I've read it was reviewed as a "good" record and I guess you can
trust the musicians indeed.
My vote for Perowsky...
My two humble pesos...
Hugo
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #920
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