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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #918
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, May 3 2000 Volume 02 : Number 918
In this issue:
-
Re: Last Exit/Masada in Oakland
Re: Joey Baron (was: Baron/Ribot/Medeski)
Re: harry partch & related books
dave douglas sextet live review
zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
art pepper
Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
re: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Re: Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Re: Last Exit/Masada in Oakland
Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 00:07:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Last Exit/Masada in Oakland
William Crump, demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>2.
>Who-all's going to Masada at Yoshi's? Any listers planning on gathering
>for sushi before the show?
I'm going to both sets of the Friday night show,
and am planning on sushi before hand...so, uh,
count me in!
Gonna be a good weekend, Negativland is playing
their final show on Saturday the 27th.
mike rizzi
rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
"Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:12:18 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Joey Baron (was: Baron/Ribot/Medeski)
James Hale wrote:
>
> I interviewed Joey today for a magazine article and he told me that he
hi james!
what mag did you do the interview for?
any chance of mailing it to us on the list? (or to me privately?)
yours,
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:20 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: harry partch & related books
brian and everyone else who took time to write to me!
thanks a lot for all your comments.
i guess i'll just buy all three partch related books we talked about.
one after the other.
i have to say it again and again: this list and its members is by far
the best i've ever joined. no matter what question i come up with,
there's always some great and very helpful feedback!
you guys and gals rule!
patRice
brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
>
>
>
> >harry partch: a biography, by bob gilmore (vale univ. press)
>
> PatRice,
>
> The above is an excellent and honest book, a fine all around intro to Partch's
> work. Try to pick up 'Delusion of the Fury'--imho, the best Partch on disc
> (though most of it is pretty great!)
>
> Best,
>
> Brian
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:47 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: dave douglas sextet live review
hi everyone.
had the pleasure (?) of seeing the dave douglas sextet live last night.
what can i say? writing about music is rather difficult, i feel, because
i don't know enough about music theory to approach it from that
direction. if i listen to music, at home or in concert, it creates a
feeling, a vibe (yes, that word sort of sucks, i know...) - i'll try and
talk about that.=20
first of all i'll talk about the musicians.=20
ben perovsky on drums. had i ever played with joey baron in a band (as
dave douglas has), i would probably cry myself to sleep every single
night if i then ever had to play again with someone like ben. he was
horrible! awful! someone should tell this guy that there are actually
more dynamic ranges out there than forte, fortissimo and fortissimo
possibile. he was just bashing away all the time. and his solos were so
wanky-showoffy... fucking hell! i actually left because of one of his
solos before the show was over. i couldn't handle it anymore!
james genus on bass i liked and enjoyed. groovy.
uri caine on piano was great. (although he often couldn't be heard in
the mix. the guy on the soundboard... don't even want to talk about
him.)
josh roseman on trombone was okay.=20
greg tardy on clarinet was pretty good, too. but his sax playing was so
jazz clich=E9 like. pretty awful.
dave on trumpet, i'm not too sure about him. i love his work with
masada, also the charms of the night sky; but last night he sounded very
un-inspired (another word i dont' like very much...); it seemed as if=20
i'd just heard a lot of the stuff he did during his solos somewhere
before.
they played two or three tracks from the mary lou williams tribute cd.
those were fantastic. excellent.
one or two pieces were from the booker little tribute. not my cup of
tea.
the rest of the gig (well, the part i was able to endure) was more
straight ahead sort of jazz. you know theme, bridge, solo trumpet, solo
sax, solo bass, solo drums, bridge, theme... mind you, i'm into that
kind of stuff. but if i want that, i'll stay at home and listen to some
good ol' recordings like mingus or davis or whatever.=20
the whole jazz bit was just too show off for my taste. and if i want
that, i'd rather go and see dream theater live.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:27:42 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo
thought some of you might be interested.
zorn/frith/laswell/lombardo are touring europe this summer!!!
3 july london
5 july paris
don't know if any further dates are planned.
you can always check
www.ejn.it/saudades/
yours,
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 22:19:43 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
Dave seems very at home in very improv-based environments, like Tiny Bell
Trio, Masada and also his string group (I'm not SO crazy about that group
though). The more straight jazz stuff just ends up being exactly that -
straight jazz... I've got one sextet album, and I don't think I'll be
needing any more!
<< dave on trumpet, i'm not too sure about him. i love his work with
masada, also the charms of the night sky; but last night he sounded very
un-inspired (another word i dont' like very much...); it seemed as if
i'd just heard a lot of the stuff he did during his solos somewhere
before.
etc etc...
the rest of the gig (well, the part i was able to endure) was more
straight ahead sort of jazz. you know theme, bridge, solo trumpet, solo
sax, solo bass, solo drums, bridge, theme... mind you, i'm into that
kind of stuff. but if i want that, i'll stay at home and listen to some
good ol' recordings like mingus or davis or whatever. >>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:36:17 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: art pepper
oh no, it's me a-g-a-i-n!?
recently a friend of mine told me that the best autobiography by a
jazzmen he'd ever read was art pepper's. (though written in a totally
different style, i'm sure my friend hasn't red beneath the underdog by
mingus yet...)
i'd never heard of pepper, but i quite enjoyed the book.
so now i'd maybe like to explore some of his music.
what do you people on this list think about art pepper? recommended?
not?
any albums worth buying?
after having read the book, the following seemed somewhat interesting:
art pepper plus eleven, contemporary
art pepper and the (miles davis) rhythm section - is this still
available?
what about the ballads album? (must've been one of his very last
releases.)
any opinions?
thanks again for your help!
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:06:14 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Hey, they were supposed to play at the Warsaw Summer Jazz Days festival...
:-(((
Marcin Gokieli
marcing@mospan.pl
<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- ----- Original Message -----
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 12:27 PM
Subject: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo
> thought some of you might be interested.
>
> zorn/frith/laswell/lombardo are touring europe this summer!!!
>
> 3 july london
>
> 5 july paris
>
> don't know if any further dates are planned.
>
> you can always check
>
> www.ejn.it/saudades/
>
> yours,
> patRice
>
> -
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 15:34:50 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
> Dave seems very at home in very improv-based environments, like Tiny Bell
> Trio, Masada and also his string group (I'm not SO crazy about that group
> though). The more straight jazz stuff just ends up being exactly that -
> straight jazz... I've got one sextet album, and I don't think I'll be
> needing any more!
What you write amzes me. I like very much the sextet - 'stargazer' is a
litte bit to quiet , but i love the two others - and can't imagine a VERY
BAD performance by the band - hope you Patrice do not mind ... I do not
think that it's 'straight ahead jazz'. The tunes are very strongly and
precisely arranged, it's rather a sort of reconstruction' in the same
spirit as Stravinsky's or Bartok approach to classical ( 17-19 century) and
folk music. The same thing applies, IMHO, to Masada - those compositions
or at leastsoem of them) are more like 'contemporary compositions' then
'jazz tunes' - it uses the jazz idiom - mainly ornette coleman's early
stuff - as much as webern or varese (BTW - if you ever get in proximity of
Carter 'symphony of three orchestras' and varese 'desert-ecuatorial -
hyperprism' by Boulez JUST BUY IT. Use visa/Masetercard/ Amex credit if
necessary; BTW II - yes Patrice, the guy IS getting better and better)
approach to dynamics and, of course, a bunch of jewish-eastern
melodies and rhytms. I think that the proper 'jazz' is mostly a live, club
thing - both in terms of actual practice and its influence on compositions
and dynamics. Note that, for example davis's calssic quintet with hancock,
carter, williams, and shorter performed quite differnt material liv and in
studio - the stuff form records rarely made it into the live repertoire: as
far as i know, they played the old stuff and stndards, not the crazy
compositions from sorcerer, filles, or nefertiti.
I agree with Patrice that JB is much better then Perowsky - buty he's an
excellent drummer anyway (joey is one of the few real drum artists -
alongside Tony Williams, Roy Haynes, and sometimes Bill Bruford).
The thing with the mixing engineers really makes me crazy. Last time when i
watched the MMW (last summer) it was horrible - in the few first rows the
bass drum was three times too loud - when Wood hit it, it was louder then
the rest of the band! You can't listen to a show in such conditions...
BTW, Patrice, where was the show you've seen?
Marcin Gokieli
marcing@mospan.pl
<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:03:46 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: re: dave douglas sextet live review
marcin wrote:
>> I do not
>>think that it's 'straight ahead jazz'. The tunes are very strongly and
>>precisely arranged, it's rather a sort of reconstruction' in the same
>>spirit as Stravinsky's or Bartok approach to classical ( 17-19 century) and
well, marcin, i was there! it was very much straight ahead jazz-like.
with theme and solos and everything. on the other hand yes, there was
stuff, like the marylou williams tribute tracks, that was written down,
without any improvisations.
>>folk music. The same thing applies, IMHO, to Masada - those compositions
>> or at leastsoem of them) are more like 'contemporary compositions' then
>>'jazz tunes' - it uses the jazz idiom - mainly ornette coleman's early
>>stuff - as much as webern or varese (BTW - if you ever get in proximity of
well yes, there is stuff written out - but i'm 100 % sure that jz didn't
go to all the trouble of writing solos for douglas, cohen, baron or
himself out. maybe zorn is a little mad, but i'm sure he's not t-h-a-t
mad!!! ;-)
>>I think that the proper 'jazz' is mostly a live, club
>>thing - both in terms of actual practice and its influence on compositions
>>and dynamics. Note that, for example davis's calssic quintet with hancock,
well. that's exactly what i experienced last night!
and like i said in my first post: if i want that, i'd rather listen to
some old stuff at home that i have on cd/vinyl.
>>carter, williams, and shorter performed quite differnt material liv and in
>>studio - the stuff form records rarely made it into the live repertoire: as
>>far as i know, they played the old stuff and stndards, not the crazy
>>compositions from sorcerer, filles, or nefertiti.
the problem, i feel, is that you can't really make a comparison here.
when was that davis/carter/williams/hancock/shorter thing happening?
50s? 60s? this is the fucking 21st century! time's have changed. and to
me the approach i witnessed last night is no longer interesting. not if
a band from today goes up there and tries to pull that 50s/60s off.
(again: i'd rather go and see dream theater.)
>>I agree with Patrice that JB is much better then Perowsky - buty he's an
>>excellent drummer anyway (joey is one of the few real drum artists -
>>alongside Tony Williams, Roy Haynes, and sometimes Bill Bruford).
of course joey is a big-time exception.
if you like perowsky perowsky though, imho, you should maybe have your
ears examined (sorry for having to say this), but he was god-fucking
awful! (definitely one of the worst drum performances i've ever seen in
my life!) or maybe he had the worst ever day of his life!? he has chops
alright, his setup is interesting (i'm a drummer myself), but what he
played - jesus christ! he actually made me leave the concert with his
drum solo! well done to that though, no drummer has ever managed to do
that before! ;-)
>>The thing with the mixing engineers really makes me crazy. Last time when i
>>watched the MMW (last summer) it was horrible - in the few first rows the
>>bass drum was three times too loud - when Wood hit it, it was louder then
>>the rest of the band! You can't listen to a show in such conditions...
well, sitting in the first row probably isn't that great an idea - from
an acoustic point of view - in the first place, is it?...
>>BTW, Patrice, where was the show you've seen?
a place called dornbirn in austria.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:05:26 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Marcin Gokieli wrote:
>
> Hey, they were supposed to play at the Warsaw Summer Jazz Days festival...
> :-(((
it's not listed (yet?) on the saudades webpage.
there still is hope, i guess!?!?
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 16:09:43 +0200
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
patRice wrote:
>
> of course joey is a big-time exception.
> if you like perowsky perowsky though, imho, you should maybe have your
> ears examined (sorry for having to say this), but he was god-fucking
>
> -
sorry, sorry, sorry marcin! i didn't mean to be this rude. but really -
he was so bad! it can't be put into words! i was furious about the whole
thing last night!
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 00:09:40 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet live review
> What you write amzes me. I like very much the sextet - 'stargazer' is a
> litte bit to quiet , but i love the two others - and can't imagine a VERY
> BAD performance by the band.
Yes, I agree, if I see that lineup on the cd cover, it's hard to imagine
them doing anything bad, and they don't do anything bad at all. Firstly I
should point out that the one CD I have by them just happens to be
Stargazer, maybe I should check out another one. And secondly, I wasn't
saying there was anything "wrong" with what they are doing, but rather that
Dave doing a more "jazz" set is going to be less interesting than playing
with the Tiny Bell Trio or Charms Of The Night Sky.
Oh, and the opening bassline on Stargazer is annoyingly out of tune...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:30:58 EDT
From: MorMovies@aol.com
Subject: Re: Odp: zorn / frith / laswell / lombardo - grrrrrrr....
Blade Runner (Zorn, Frith, Laswell, Lombardo) were originally scheduled for
the Warsaw fest but were replaced by Massacre.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 08:47:35 -0700
From: William Crump <william@steno.com>
Subject: Re: Last Exit/Masada in Oakland
"m. rizzi" wrote:
>
> I'm going to both sets of the Friday night show,
> and am planning on sushi before hand...so, uh,
> count me in!
>
Well gosh dang, Mike, I won't be there until Saturday (both sets, too).
This living in Redding has got to stop. Somebody got a high paying job for
a prepress specialist in the Bay Area?
William Crump
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:36:43 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
(this discussion begins to be lenghty - hope the other guys do not hate
us;-)
> sorry, sorry, sorry marcin! i didn't mean to be this rude. but really -
> he was so bad! it can't be put into words! i was furious about the whole
> thing last night!
It was not that rude, i like people who have clear opininions on music. A
bad show is a horrible thing. I remember i expected very much from the
praxis show some two years ago, and the thing (BL, brain, bckthd, +djs)was
so boring and stupid i left the show.
Marcin Gokieli
marcing@mospan.pl
<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:29 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: dave douglas sextet live review
> well, marcin, i was there! it was very much straight ahead jazz-like.
> with theme and solos and everything. on the other hand yes, there was
> stuff, like the marylou williams tribute tracks, that was written down,
> without any improvisations.
> well yes, there is stuff written out - but i'm 100 % sure that jz didn't
> go to all the trouble of writing solos for douglas, cohen, baron or
> himself out. maybe zorn is a little mad, but i'm sure he's not t-h-a-t
> mad!!! ;-)
By 'non-jazz' i do not mean 'non-improvised'. It's evident that masada does
improvise - What is less evident is what the improv is. I do not know - i do
believe that some great performances of so-caled 'classical music' are
improvised, in a sense that the way it is played is 'improvised' - ie is
not
a result of totally strict ideas. I do believe that it is often an effect of
the way the conductor and the orchestra feel the music during the
performance.
> well. that's exactly what i experienced last night!
> and like i said in my first post: if i want that, i'd rather listen to
> some old stuff at home that i have on cd/vinyl.
> the problem, i feel, is that you can't really make a comparison here.
> when was that davis/carter/williams/hancock/shorter thing happening?
> 50s? 60s? this is the fucking 21st century! time's have changed. and to
> me the approach i witnessed last night is no longer interesting. not if
> a band from today goes up there and tries to pull that 50s/60s off.
> (again: i'd rather go and see dream theater.)
well, i agree that the attitude of the sextet is, in a sense, 'regressive'.
But that is not a bad thing. Jazz tradition is a great one, and people who
love it should take care of it. the problem appears when it blocks his own
projects - vide Wynton. Playing mozart is not a bad thing, having 2 percent
of the repertoire from the 20th century (the case of the f#$$%ing Warsaw
Philharmonic) is awful.
Some compositions of the sext are not 'all jazz' - mostly the ones from 'in
our lifetime' - four miniatures, the last tune (dedicated to tim berne).
> of course joey is a big-time exception.
> if you like perowsky perowsky though, imho, you should maybe have your
> ears examined (sorry for having to say this), but he was god-fucking
> awful! (definitely one of the worst drum performances i've ever seen in
> my life!) or maybe he had the worst ever day of his life!? he has chops
> alright, his setup is interesting (i'm a drummer myself), but what he
> played - jesus christ! he actually made me leave the concert with his
> drum solo! well done to that though, no drummer has ever managed to do
> that before! ;-)
Well, maybe he really had a bad day? he's not bad, i've seen him with the DD
quartet , he was not joey (and not being joey baron is a great obstacle for
a drummer ;-)...), but ok BTW, i talked to Dave after the show, and he told
me that on the album the drummer will be Joey Baron - it was before the
release of the first quartet CD.
And drumming is a difficult thing. drums are very exposed, in a sense.
For example, it is the only instrument that does a real solo - no
accompaniement - in quite standard bands. I do believe that it is abused in
jazz. We fired the drummer from the band I play in - and we are very happy
without this instrument. I do not say drums are bad, i just mean that people
could think before they start looking for a drummer. One can do without.
Btw, what kind of music do you (ie Patrice) play? i'm doing keyboards, vocs,
and words for a 'total improv' band (guitars, bass, cl, and me, all the
stuff treated with the fx)
> well, sitting in the first row probably isn't that great an idea - from
> an acoustic point of view - in the first place, is it?...
Wel;, it was not just the first row, or even first 3 or 4 rows, it was the
fisrt half of a big hall (sala kongesowa in warsaw, about 2500 places). It
has a horrible acoustics, and usually you have to be close to the stage to
have some acoustics.
Be well,
Marcin Gokieli
marcing@mospan.pl
<<RAKEWELL
Where is my Venus? Why have you stolen her while
I slept? Madmen! Where have you hidden her?
MADMEN
Venus? Stolen? Hidden? Where?
Madman! No one has been here.>>
Auden & Kallman, Stravinsky's "The Rake's Progress"
>
> >>BTW, Patrice, where was the show you've seen?
> a place called dornbirn in austria.
>
> patRice
>
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #918
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