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2000-03-08
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #883
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, March 9 2000 Volume 02 : Number 883
In this issue:
-
Re: jim black
Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
Re: Knit / WKCR / anyone have access?
Re: Cooper-Moore
Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
Re: Re: jazz!
current politic situation in austria (was: Boycotting Schubert?)
encores
Re: Han Bennink
Re: encores
March Sale Items
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:41:52 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: jim black
neongreen7 wrote:
> what's a good recording to start with that has jim black on drums?
> i love the new dave douglas cd, so maybe i should start with a DD cd with
> jim on it.
> any thoughts or suggestions?
As many have suggested, the Tiny Bell Trio is a fine place to start. But for
me, the primest Jim Black on disc remains Tim Berne's bloodcount. Tim's been
blessed with great drummers all along (Alex Cline, Paul Motian, Bobby
Previte, Joey Baron, Tom Rainey) but I've never heard any drummer interact
with the twitchy avant-funk nervous system of Mr. Berne as intuitively as did
Jim Black on the bloodcount recordings, especially the rawer ones on
Screwgun. I recommend anyone start with 'Discretion,' an inexpensive single
disc release that will no doubt start an addiction. Listen to Jim dropping
those bombs when the rhythm section hits high gear on "Is That a Gap?" and
you'll never doubt again.
Pachora is a great place to hear Jim do his Eastern European thing. Another
place he shouldn't be missed is Ellery Eskelin's trio with Black and Andrea
Parkins - they made their first fine recording for Songlines, but the three
that followed on hatOLOGY, especially 'Kulak, 29 & 30,' are incredible, as
the trio had by that time become a seasoned working band.
And I'll also recommend most highly the two Peter Epstein discs on the M+A
label, 'Staring at the Sun' and 'The Invisible.' Fellow Z-lister Tom Benton
will back me up on this, these two discs are full of lovely writing,
penetrating playing by saxophonist Eptein, accordionist and organist Jamie
Saft, bassist Chris Dahlgren and Black, and an added bonus is they are two of
the more exquisitely recorded discs I've ever heard. You'll hear every
little detail of Black's inspired mayhem.
> how about han bennink recordings that are "must haves"?
Assuming that you want to stick to readily available CDs (so I won't be
demanding that you track down the long out of print LP 'Topography of the
Lungs'), and also that you want to focus on discs in which Bennink is
highlighted instead of part of the din (as in the ICP or Peter Brotzmann's
nevertheless essential 'Machine Gun'), here are my thoughts:
'Serpentine' by Bennink and Dave Douglas, since you've already said you like
Dave
'Spots, Circle and Fantasy' by Bennink and Cecil Taylor
One of the several available duos with Derek Bailey - the two new ones, 'Post
Improvisation 1' and 'Post Improvisation 2' are interesting in that they were
assembled by mailing solo tracks to one another to create duets after the
fact - 'Live at Verity's' or 'Han' might be better choices.
A representation of the Clusone Trio - they're all pretty great
And you should ultimately try to hear Bennink's work with Peter Brotzmann,
Fred van Hove and Albert Mangelsdorff, with Misha Mengelberg, and with Willem
Breuker. There's a lot to digest but Han's an infinitely variable player and
it's hard to capture him in a disc or two. I'm also fond of the hatOLOGY
duets with Myra Melford and Ellery Eskelin, but some folks round here are
decidedly cooler on those discs.
And actually, I *will* recommend that you try out the ICP Orchestra 'Jubilee
Varia' to hear Han in a more traditional supporting role - he can swing as
hard as any conventional jazz drummer of his generation.
Enjoy the exploration...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - King Crimson, "Sailor's Tale," 'Live at Summit Studios, Denver' (King
Crimson Collectors Club)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:17:00 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
Jason Tors wrote:
> Josh Roseman totally blows me away in this context, he really covers
> a lot of ground, what I love about him is that he doesnt adhere to
> the adage that faster is better, he plays with such clarity. He plays
> a mute/muffle so well, sounded like a ragged old jazz singer fresh
> from smoking a pack of reds.
Judging from this alone I just have to ask if you were there on Sunday
night. I caught three nights of this run (Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday)
and only on Sunday night did Josh hit me in *exactly* this way. I do
think that this particular band brings out the best in Josh.
> Did you see Jeff "Tain" Watts come in late and sit behind james
> genus.
Now I *know* you were there Sunday night, unless perhaps Tain came more
than one night. He was definitely sitting behind Genus on Sunday night
and scooted just before the end of the first set.
> A buddy of mine was trying to convince me that the soul on
> soul group reminds him a lot of wynton marsalis' band in the early
> 90's with Tain on drums, I wonder if there is a connection.
Splitting hairs, perhaps, but Tain wasn't in the band anymore in the
early '90s. His last record with Wynton was in '88, most likely recorded
a year earlier. So I don't see a direct connection, but at the same time
I don't think it would be heresy to say that when Dave investigates the
tradition, although he comes from a different place, certainly it could
lead him to some of the same zones to which Wynton is led when he
investigates the same tradition, even if Wynton is approaching from a
more "orthodox" position. My opinion, of course... it's not something
I've discussed with Dave.
> I want to hear the original zodiac suite, that composition was really
> dense I can imagine some sections being played in the 30s but I think
> DD brought a lot to that song.
It's easily available on a 1995 Smithsonian Folkways reissue, as is the
late album 'Zoning,' source of "Play It Momma," which Dave referred to
every night as a "fusion" tune.
> The thing that amazes me the most is how different the first set was
> from the second set. The feel of the band changed entirely, they were
> a lot more loose and ready to blow. The first set was a lot of tunes
> and second set was all out jamming, some earth shattering solos by DD
> and roseman.
Most of the first sets were dedicated to the new album entirely, while
the second sets generally included more originals and some selections
from the Wayne Shorter and Booker Little tributes, music which would
allow for more natural "stretching."
> I love the bass solos, james had an incredible bass solo on the third
> tune!!
Given how much I've heard the other players in the band, it was Uri Caine
and James Genus who consistently surprised me the most during the course
of the shows I heard. Uri is of course brilliant, but even so his
playing stood out time and time again. And James simply played more bass
than I've ever heard him play before. And I'll also include Josh in that
tally on Sunday night, where he was obviously inspired.
I'll also say, not as Dave's current publicist but as the former
publicist for the Village Vanguard itself, that the crowds I saw on the
nights I went were the *youngest* crowds I've ever seen in the Vanguard.
And I don't think Stanley Crouch accepted my invitation to attend a show
"on the house," either. Which basically says a lot about Stanley.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - King Crimson, "The Creator Has a Master Plan" (I kid you not...),
'Live at Summit Studios, Denver' (King Crimson Collectors Club)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 22:53:06 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
On Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 10:17:00PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
> NP - King Crimson, "The Creator Has a Master Plan" (I kid you not...),
> 'Live at Summit Studios, Denver' (King Crimson Collectors Club)
Damn all you who are earlier in the alphabet!-) (I know the KCCC handles
things alphabetically, so I should get mine tomorrow or so, depending on
the DC Post Offal.)
n.p. Peter Kowald, et al.: Cuts (looks like I'm going to be singing with
his improvisors' orchestra Saturday night in DC, so I snarfed a CD of
his ensemble stuff from the cutout bin at Tower near work.)
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 22:36:59 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: Knit / WKCR / anyone have access?
Rick Lopez wrote:
> Knitting Factory session resulting in
> Derek Bailey, John Zorn & William Parker: Harras AVAN 056 (CD) 1995
> I also need a date for this one.
Ralph Shapiro's intrepid Bailey sessionography is atypically vague on this one,
listing only September 1994. You can find said sessionography at
http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mbaileys.html
(I saw them in January 1995 with Dougie Bowne added on drums, percussion and big
empty plastic water cooler jugs.)
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - King Crimson, "The Creator Has a Master Plan," 'Live at Summit Studios,
Denver, March 12, 1972' (King Crimson Collectors Club)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:18:28 -0700
From: Dan Given <lgiven1@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Cooper-Moore
>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 10:20:20 -0500 (EST)
>From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
>Subject: Re: Cooper-Moore
>
>Cooper has been playing on and off with Parker (initially with David S.
>Ware and Marc Edwards) for years. He also composes for theatre groups and
>choirs and plays other instrumets such as diddley-bow and horizontal harp.
>
>He is part of the Susie Ibarra Trio that has a CD on Hopscotch. A CD on
>his solo piano performance at the Guelph Jazz Festival should be released
>by Hoscotch in a couple of months.
>
The infamous Manhattan's Pizza Parlor set, is going to be released on CD!!!
This show was amazing. Because of it, the owner of Manhattan's has ended
all affiliation with the jazz festival --he was afraid that Cooper-Moore
was going to destroy his recently refurbished piano. Hopefully the spoken
word segments of the show will be included on the disc. I only wish I had
a tape recorder running for the odd encounter I had with Cooper-Moore in
the parking lot after the show, where he was complaining about how the
owner was so worried about him breaking the piano, and how if he really
wanted to do it, all it took was one finger. He then told a story about
doing it at some venue in NYC, because the owner didn't stock his kind of
beer. Of all the things I heard at that festival, the stories of
Cooper-Moore may stay with me the longest.
Dan
>Ken Waxman
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 01:49:30 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: dave douglas sextet (plus clapping and drummers)
Joseph -
You're going to be singing with Peter Kowald this weekend, and you're
envious of me for receiving a King Crimson archival disc a day earlier than
you? Hmmmm. Can we change places? You can have my CD and all... ;-)
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - Napalm Death, "Cleanse Impure," 'Words from the Exit Wound' (Earache)
Joseph Zitt wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 08, 2000 at 10:17:00PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
>
> > NP - King Crimson, "The Creator Has a Master Plan" (I kid you not...),
> > 'Live at Summit Studios, Denver' (King Crimson Collectors Club)
>
> Damn all you who are earlier in the alphabet!-) (I know the KCCC handles
> things alphabetically, so I should get mine tomorrow or so, depending on
> the DC Post Offal.)
>
> n.p. Peter Kowald, et al.: Cuts (looks like I'm going to be singing with
> his improvisors' orchestra Saturday night in DC, so I snarfed a CD of
> his ensemble stuff from the cutout bin at Tower near work.)
>
> --
> |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
> | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
> | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
> | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:07:33 EST
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: jazz!
It might be, too, that Dave has as much in common with players/listeners on
both sides of the free/symmetrical music coin.
For other musicians dealing with jazz in a similar fashion as does DD, I
would say Uri Caine, Don Byron, Joey Baron, Terry Adams (his solo album,
TERRIBLE, more than his NRBQ stuff), and John Abercrombie. There's always
Sun Ra and Carla Bley. Mingus, too, had a lot of both elements. Does "free"
cancel out other music? I didn't think so.
It's sad in a way that -- granted, "jazz" means a broad category -- it's
become so specialized. Joey Baron told me once that people think, because he
plays with guys like Zorn, that he probably can't play a bar of straight time
on a ride cymbal. I think he's right. My experience has long been that, if
you play something that relies more or less on spontaneous generation, it's
like telling people you can't play standards. Kind of unfair, but people are
used to specialists now, not general practitioners.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:22:10 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: current politic situation in austria (was: Boycotting Schubert?)
kurt_gottschalk@scni.com wrote:
>
> Boycotting Schubert? (Washn)
> By Joseph McLellan
> Special to The Washington Post
> WASHINGTON - An organized campaign to boycott Austrian cultural activities has
> grown up since Joerg Haider's Freedom Party became a member of the country's
> coalition government.
> But several presenters in Washington have decided not to accept the connection
> between Austrian politics and Austrian culture implied in that campaign.
thank whoever (since i don't believe in god) that there are still people
like that around!
i'm living in one of austrian's neighbouring countries and must say that
the only thing the political boycots from the european union and other
organizations/countries against austria have done nothing but one thing:
strengthened support for mister joerg haider!
most people in austria can't understand why so-called democratic
organizations/countries want to interfer with their politics. after all,
the austrian government has been democratically elected! is it possible
that maybe some leaders of other countries want to move attention away
from their right wing problems?
is "isolating" austria a good idea? i don't think so. that is one way of
making sure mister haider is going to get more and more support. the
people who have accused him of this and that have unfortunately not done
their homework and thoroughly investigated his background. most of the
accusations have fired backwards because of that. mister haider is not
quite right in his mind, but (unfortunately!) he is a very good speaker;
with a broad smile he will lie into anyone's face - and way too many
people are not able to realize this. he's always said the european union
is not democratic, and them boycotting austria because of the government
that has been democratically eleceted - well...
and so on and on and on...
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:19:24 -0500
From: kurt_gottschalk@scni.com
Subject: encores
long as we're swapping stories ...
lounge lizards at the mercury lounge 3 or 4 yrs ago. lurie said that since the
only way to get backstage is to go right through there (cutting a diagonal
through the standing crowd with his hand and eye), everyone should make a lot of
noise and they would go ahead and do the encore now.
after they played, they started to make their way off stage and lurie said from
the stage, "ok, we're going to leave now. please don't touch any of the
musicians unless you know them."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:07:52 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Han Bennink
Another couple of good places to start re: Han
Dissonant Characters (hatology) -- a duo with Ellery Eskelin (ts)
3 points and a mountain ... plus (newly reissued with additional material
from FMP) --Misha Mengelberg (p and recitation); Peter Brotzmann (alto
and tenor saxes, clarinet, bass clarinet); Bennink (drums, percussion,
toys, noise, tenor saxophone[!] clarinet [!!] etc. etc.
I think Han is a great drummer. But because of his over-reliance of
shtick, he's one of the few musicians I would say is better heard than seen.
Ken Waxman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:26:16 -0500
From: Dan Hewins <dan@synsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: encores
As a matter of fact...
Last night at the Knit, the final band, Paul Newman, (a band not a
person. Well, the bass player is named Paul Newman but he doesn't
make salad dressing) said they would play one more song if we all
could agree that it was the last song of the set and not an encore.
Dan Hewins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:53:19 -0500
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: March Sale Items
I have the following items for sale.
Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within North America.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.
If you don't like a price, please don't hesitate to
let me know what you'd be willing to pay.
$ 9 -- A=EFyb Dieng - "Rhythmagick" US CD (Subharmonic) 1996
[Dieng (chatan, jimbe, bass/talking drums, gongs, bells etc.) w/
Laswell (bs, bowed bs, samples), Skopelitis (6 & 12-string gtr),
Sanders (ts, metal/wood flutes), Worrell (hammond b-3, clavinet)=
,
Collins (gtr, space bass), Trilok Gurtu (dms, tablas), and more.=
]
$10 -- Elixir - "Hegalien Zone" US CD (Ion) 1997
[DXT (drums, keys, perc, turntable, voice) with Laswell (bass),
Sassan, J.P. Sluys (samples, flutes) & Umar Bin Hassan (voice).]
$12 -- Evan Parker/Lawrence Casserley - "Solar Wind" UK CD (Touch) 1997
[Parker on soprano sax, Casserley (member of Parker's EA Ensembl=
e)
electronically processing his playing almost beyond recognition.=
]
OFFERS -- Hanatarash - "5: We Are 0:00" JAP CD (Polystar/Shock City) 19=
96
[Comes in transparent pink jewelcase w/ green tray, Hana logo &
psychedelic art. One long (53 min.) piece of swirling, droning,
harsh electronics courtesy of Eye & Co.]
$22 -- John McLaughlin - "Remember Shakti" FRA 2CD (Verve) 1999
[Recorded live in the UK in 1997 with Zakir Hussain (tabla),
T.H. "Vikku" Vinayakram (ghatam), & Hariprasad Chaurasia (bansur=
i).]
$ 7 -- Masonna - "Masonanie Viva Los Angeles" US 7" (P-Tapes) 1993
[Green vinyl. Limited & numbered (804/1005) w/ insert.
2 of Maso's first US live performances from 11/23-24/93.]
$24 -- Oval - "Iso Fabric" JAP CD (Tokuma) 1997
[Tracks from "Systemisch" & "94 Diskont" plus exclusive cuts,
"Instantan 1+2", "Gegenlesen", "Eigentlichen 2.0" & "70 Kino".
In didgipak with infosheet. Mint.]
Thanks for looking.
- -Patrick
pm.carey@utoronto.ca
[ http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/muse.html ]
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #883
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