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2000-02-25
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #863
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 02 : Number 863
In this issue:
-
mp3s
Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Re: mp3s
Re: mp3s
MMW
Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
Re: mp3s
Morrissey
Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups
Re: e-rax
Re: Morrissey
Morrissey
Re: So. How'd it happen?
Futurist Cookbook
MMW opinions
zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: Futurist Cookbook
Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:08:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Troy Alan Hammond <shady@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Subject: mp3s
Here's my take.
Music is a pure thing.
Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
All bullshit created by fear.
The music is the insanity.
Insanity must flourish.
Let it out.
Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:10:39 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
Neil H. Enet wrote:
>
> PROGRESSIVE phase. Then in 1994 I bought MORRISSEY's Vauxhall and I and
> that changed everything for me.
wow! yes! someone else on the list who digs morrissey! cool. haven't
really listened to his more recent output, but some of the old stuff i
love. especially with the smiths...
> anything wilder, tell me, please). I was still into the TRIP HOP Jazz
> thing, so I bought MMW's Bubblehouse which has a TRIP HOP remix of a song
> where Zorn plays.
who is "mmw" please???
yours,
pat
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:11:10 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada Songbook
Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
>
> i should've been more subtle...
> i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never
> copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist,
> with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the
> whole cd of a specific artist!
> and then only if this person does not usually listen to that kind of stuff
> or really doesn't have the $$ to buy all kinds of cd's just to 'try it out'.
> and i'm a musician too, so i also know the other side...
> i'm just trying to spread the music without taking money out of the artists
> pockets...
> if someone copies a cd for me and i really dig the stuff, i would buy the
> original anyway just for the artwork and to support him/her!
>
> robert
right! so we're both on the same wavelength here! glad to know!
yours,
pat
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:25:54 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: mp3s
there is a lot of bullshit out there, true.
a lot of it created by feat, yes.
what some / most (?) of us on this list are trying to do is to support
the musicians whose music we love by buying their releases and therefore
enabling them to keep on working on their thing. (and them providing us
with more eardrum-bending, heart-touching music!)
bootleg mp3s, when no-one's making money, are okay in my books. no
problem with that.
but if you say "fuck copyrights ... blabla", what you're actually saying
is "fuck the people who wrote and recorded the music", "fuck john zorn".
etc.
that, being a musician myself, i think is just a fucking bad attitude i
can't dig at all.
yours,
patRice
Troy Alan Hammond wrote:
>
> Here's my take.
> Music is a pure thing.
> Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
> All bullshit created by fear.
> The music is the insanity.
> Insanity must flourish.
> Let it out.
> Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:42:27 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: mp3s
Troy:
I don't think you'd be that thrilld if it was your work being bootlegged
for free with you getting no compensation for it. An artist deserves to
have his art appreciated. He also deserves to make enough fro it so he
can live and create other art.
Ken Waxman
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Troy Alan Hammond wrote:
> Here's my take.
> Music is a pure thing.
> Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
> All bullshit created by fear.
> The music is the insanity.
> Insanity must flourish.
> Let it out.
> Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:08:27 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
Subject: MMW
patRICE:
MMW is Medeski Martin& Wood. Their ep Bubblehouse has a few remixes and
there's the DRACULA remix by DJ LOGIC on which Zorn plays the alto sax. The
best song in the EP, in my opinion.
Neil H. Enet
- ------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:10:08 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: morrissey / mmw (was: how did it happen?)
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:10:39 +0100 patRice wrote:
>
> > PROGRESSIVE phase. Then in 1994 I bought MORRISSEY's Vauxhall and I and
> > that changed everything for me.
> wow! yes! someone else on the list who digs morrissey! cool. haven't
> really listened to his more recent output, but some of the old stuff i
> love. especially with the smiths...
Add me to the list of Smiths fans. The Jesus & The Mary Chain and The Smiths
were the two groups that made me realize how much I had lost by discarding
rock music during most of the '80s.
Is there any other "modern" (not anymore) band which could put up such
fantastic singles?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:25:12 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@jetlink.net>
Subject: Re: mp3s
>>>Here's my take.<<<
Is your livelihood affected in any way by this issue? Are you a musician?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:37:28 -0800 (PST)
From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh)
Subject: Morrissey
I think Morrissey is one of the most underrated artists around. Through
him/Smiths I became quite aware of a pop culture that I wasn't fully in
tuned with. Via their album covers, literature taste, etc. Via Morrissey
I got into Johnnie Ray, Billy Fury, etc. Really interesting 'twisted' pop
stuff. & one of the other great things about him is....he is his
music/image.
- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://tamtambooks.com/
- ------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:40:46 -0600
From: King Wilson <kingwil@enteract.com>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada/Newsgroups
>Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
> >
> > i should've been more subtle...
> > i'm very careful with copying cd's for other people. when i do it, i never
> > copy whole cd's, but make 'sampler' cd's, with one of two songs per artist,
> > with the idea to 'tease' them a little so they hopefully go out and buy the
> > whole cd of a specific artist!
One thing you have to remember is that this is a PUBLIC mail list.
I think people forget sometimes that there are hundreds of people who
don't ever post anything, but read every message. When you post
something, you are not just talking to the people who are taking an
active role in the conversation, but to a large crowd of people, who
are all listening to you.
A few days ago, some announced to the KLF list the login and
password of a huge, long time running KLF ftp archive. The owner of
the archive was suddenly swamped, and had to change the L/P. Now
there are alot of people pissed off (myself included).........
BTW I just wanted to recommend to people of the List that they start
checking out the alt.binaries newsgroups. They are starting to
really take off. On alt.binaries.sounds.mp3.bootleg alone, there
recently been shows by Tom Waits, Naked City, Mr. Bungle, Can, Faust,
Talking Heads, Bill Frisell, Phish's 8 hour New Year's set, etc.
It's pretty amazing just how much music you can get.
If your ISP's newsgroup server sucks as bad as mine does (which I
think is pretty much universally true) go over to supernews.com, or
any of the other ftp servers. Pay around 10 bucks a month to get up
to 2.5 gigs of downloads. Usually, the binaries are on the server
for about a week. The Music/Cost ratio is unbelievable, and I'm
finding things I would never find if I had to track down the tapes,
physically....
read icculus
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:40:29 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: e-rax
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:05:47 -0800 (PST) Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> Definitely. I've only played it once through so far,
> but it sounded really great. Thomas Lehn is a massive
> force to be reckoned with. I'd also encourage folks
> check out the new Lehn/Hemingway 2-CD duet on our own
> Jon Abbey's Erstwhile label. It kicks ass, for sure.
I hearfully second that recommendation! There are moments where Thomas almost
sounds like Michael Waisvisz -- my favorite historical-under-documented
synthesizer improviser.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:45:57 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Morrissey
On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:37:28 -0800 (PST) Tosh wrote:
>
> I think Morrissey is one of the most underrated artists around. Through
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
We would have to define the word "underrated". I mean, if you consider
Morrissey underrated, what to say of most people we are talking about on
this list...
His steady whining makes it look like he is, but you would have to break
the thermometer of popular fame to agree with him.
Besides himself, he is victim of having been in such a great band, and
the effect of the hangover have not been dissipated yet.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:03:27 -0800 (PST)
From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh)
Subject: Morrissey
Personally (and I know I am one of the few) actually like the Solo
Morrissey stuff better than the Smiths.
What I was commenting when saying 'underrated' is the fact the Morrissey
represents a whole era of pop culture & its off- shoots (New York Dolls,
Oscar Wilde, Johnnie Ray, London 60's, Kray Twins, boxing, gay, Charles
Dickens, etc.) that are not picked up by the general audience. Most what I
see in the press is that he is 'eccentric of sorts' or that he doesn't
really matter anymore, that he just pisses and moans, etc.. Which may or
may not be true - but I can't think of any artist except Zorn (introducing
s&m culture, Japanese films, trash culture, etc.) or Sonic Youth
(avant-culture) and some others whose work is set out to expose a much
bigger context than just a piece of music.
At least that is what I am thinking...and of course that is debatable.
ciao,
- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://tamtambooks.com/
- ------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:30:59 PST
From: "J.M. Schuller" <kwashikor@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: So. How'd it happen?
This sort of sums it up for me!
Age 5- Sesame Street Records
Snow White Soundtrack
Age 6- Star Wars Soundtrack
Read Along Story Books
Age 7- KISS
Age 8- More KISS
Age 9- Ozzy Osbourne
Lots of MTV
Age 10- Lots and Lots of MTV
Age 11- AC/DC
Age 12- More AC/DC
Age 13- Black Flag
Suicidal Tendencies
Minor Threat
Age 14- More Black Flag
Minutemen
Meat Puppets
Age 15- Redd Kross
RKL
Melvins
Age 16- Soundgarden
Crumbsuckers
Bad Brains
Age 17- Slayer
Public Enemy
Beastie Boys
Age 18- Jimi Hendrix
Cream
Robert Johnson
Age 19- Funkadelic
Faith No More
Rollins Band
Age 20- Sonic Youth
My Name
Phish
Age 21- Melvins
Earth
Godhead Silo
Age 22- More Melvins
Zeke
More Funkadelic
Age 23- Steely Dan
Captain Beefheart
Frank Zappa
James Brown
Age 24- More Zappa
Mahavishnu Orchestra
Miles Davis
John Fahey
Age 25- Naked City
Charles Mingus
Pigpen
Derek Bailey
Marc Ribot
Wayne Horvitz
Bill Frisell
etc.
Age 26- Ween
Noel Akchote
Fred Frith
Massacre
Ikue Mori
eyvind Kang
etc.
Age 27- Merzbow
Kato Hideki
John Oswald
Jim O'rourke
etc.
John Schuller
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:49:42 EST
From: Whitejams@aol.com
Subject: Futurist Cookbook
I'm sure all of you are aware of Mike Patton's Tzadik release of Pranzo
Oltranzista and how it was inspired by Marinetti's "Futurist Cookbook". My
question is this...how can I obtain a copy of the Futurist Cookbook? It's
out of print, does anyone own it? Can you let me know anything about it. Is
anyone an expert on the Futurists? I am an intrigued and want to know more
about the art and the music.
THANKS___ATOM
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:59:52 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
Subject: MMW opinions
>who is "mmw" please???
...as has been written this is Medeski Martin and Wood. I sort of
jazz/groove vamp trio. Medeski plays multiple keyboards, Billy Martin plays
drums, and Chris Wood plays bass.
If you're interested in their music I recommend that you avoid purchasing
the "Bubblehouse" ep first as it is not one of their better albums.
I recommend these:
- -Notes from the Underground (more acoustic with horns -- kind of early jazz
beginnings of the group...my personal favorite and their earliest)
- -It's a Jungle in Here
- -Friday Afternoon in the Universe
all are good, but all three are different. In my opinion they've been in a
rut since the release of "shack man" although they can still be a lot of fun
to see live (I saw them last year in Denver). I kind of overdosed on their
music in high school and have rarely listened to records since.
matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:13:35 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) " <M_WIRZBICKI@ColoradoCollege.edu>
Subject: zappa (how'd it happen)
I've been noticing a number of people who mention Zappa as their early
influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums:
Thing Fish
Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern)
These are the two which have most sparked my curiousity (after watching 200
motels which). I'm wondering if anyone can make sence of Thing Fish...it
was intended as an opera right? It seems that the yellow shark album while
it may represent the music Zappa always hoped to write it may not appeal to
most Zappa listeners. Maybe it belongs more in the area of Varese (Zappa's
hero), but it seems that modern classical listeners are hesitant to consider
Zappa as a composer. Do they have good reason? Maybe there are some Varese,
Crumb, Bartok etc. fans out there who can help.
matt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:40:18 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 05:13:35PM -0700, Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote:
> I've been noticing a number of people who mention Zappa as their early
> influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums:
>
> Thing Fish
> Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern)
I enjoy a lot of Zappa -- but I either just don't get Thing Fish or it
really is an excruciating waste of vinyl. The music is forgettable, and
I wish that the text was...
Yellow Shark is good in his "present day composer" mode, but I prefer
his stuff where the "art" and vernacular musics mix.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:09:23 -0800 (PST)
From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh)
Subject: Re: Futurist Cookbook
>I'm sure all of you are aware of Mike Patton's Tzadik release of Pranzo
>Oltranzista and how it was inspired by Marinetti's "Futurist Cookbook". My
>question is this...how can I obtain a copy of the Futurist Cookbook? It's
>out of print, does anyone own it? Can you let me know anything about it. Is
>anyone an expert on the Futurists? I am an intrigued and want to know more
>about the art and the music.
>
>THANKS___ATOM
>
I do have the cookbook, and I suggest you read everything by Marinetti (the
head Italian Futurist). Most of his work is published by Sun & Moon - and
I think you can get it either at your local bookstore or Amazon.com.
Try Bookfinder.com for used or out-of-print books.
They were the first modernistic 'ism' in the world of aesthetics. They did
paintings, writings, music (noise), fashion and films - which I believed
at this time are lost. They were generally very much pro-war,
pro-fascists, and pro-modern. They saw 'war' as an aesthetic environment
as well as a device to blow up things old to make new. One of the things
they wanted to do was to get rid of the canals in Venice and replace it
with cement/pavement. Their aesthetic in a nutshell was showing speed or
worshiping the concept of movement/speed. Forinstince, the automobile.
In the timeline, they were before DADA. So somewhere between late 1900's
to 1918 was their most intense period of activity.
Best,
>-
- -----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://tamtambooks.com/
- ------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:53:47 EST
From: Velaires@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
The YELLOW SHARK is definitely a record I look upon with great awe. It's
worth remembering that YS is not in itself an extended work, but more of an
overview.
A great many "new music" ensembles wear on their sleeves that they play
Zappa, like it's a badge of hipness and honor. I didn't notice too many of
them playing it while he was alive. In the vast majority of performances
I've heard, this is likely because Frank would not have endorsed what I
heard. Also, the people who are quite often in charge of these ensembles are
pretentious twits who don't really know about music as a living, breathing
thing. I've had to deal with a few of 'em, and I have noticed that they
square the music off.
Another reason these guys are all scrambling to include "The Black Page" or
whatever is that dead guys -- like Zappa and Piazzolla -- are somehow hipper
than they are in life. This new breed of ensemble leaders likes to look
really hip -- especially as they're dismissing new music from New York. I've
heard more nasty stuff about Zorn from these a--holes than you can believe,
even though they can't really name any of his pieces. But they lionize
Zappa.
This is ironic. In my very few moments of conversation with John, I've found
him to be WAY more tolerant than Zappa.
For those who like Zappa's instrumental writing but nnot so much his
orchestral stuff, I recommend YOU CAN'T DO THAT ON STAGE ANYMORE VOLUME 2,
which is the 1974 band (musically his best ever, I think) on a really great
night in Helsinki. It bridges the gaps between "serious" music and
"vernacular" music.
(I put those in quotes because I think their stupid terms. Howlin' Wolf is
pretty damn serious.)
Also, a lot of older composers I know don't care much for Zappa, but they
respect the level of craft there. FZ just doesn't speak to them as directly
as he does to people raised on a more fragment-friendly (rap, Zorn et al)
musical diet. But not all. The film composer David Raskind (LAURA et al) is
a big fan, as are a few others I've come to know.
best--
sh
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #863
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