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Zorn List Digest       Friday, February 25 2000       Volume 02 : Number 862



In this issue:
-
       Re: how did it happen?
       RE: The complete Masada Songbook
       Re: this Saturday, Pink Pony, NYC
       Re: How'd it happen?
       Mingus on TV, tonight
       mp3s, etc.
       Re: how it happened
       Re: how did it happen?
       Re: How'd it happen?
       e-rax
       Re: mp3s, etc.
       Re: The complete Masada Songbook
       Re: So. How'd it happen?
       Re: e-rax

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:31:42 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: how did it happen?

I sort of got in backwards. I listened only to classical music through
high school, being a serious Bartok and George Crumb nut.

When I got to college, I did a classical radio show, but was required to
also do a rock/r&b/disco show (this was the late 70s). So I immersed
myself in more popular musics. I got a pretty good introduction to prog
and related musics, since a record store in town was the prime dumping
ground for Jem Records' cut-out overstock. This stretch my ears pretty
far -- by the end of college I was accused of having "the world's
largest collection of records that sound like vacuum cleaner malfunctions."

I started out also hating jazz, since it looked to me like egos on
parade. I got turned around, to a great extent, but working with Thomas
Chapin who (along with Terrence Blanchard and Phil Cummis (sp?)) was one
of the school's few jazz musicians who wasn't bleating Trane xeroxes.

Once out of college, I moved to NYC, where I spent much of my spare
time hanging out at Lunch for Yor Ears, where Manny would always be
spinning (and usually selling me) interesting stuff. Dunno if I knew
of Zorn from before then, but I certainly got immersed in the whole
"downtown" thing there. (Though, oddly, I've only been to the Knit
once, when I won tickets through a radio to the pre-Spy-vs-Spy
Zorn/Berne Ornette project.)

| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:11:00 +0100
From: "Rob Allaert" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: The complete Masada Songbook

Hi Robert,

Just because this music isn't selling millions, I believe we have a whole
different group of fans. I believe we are fans who admire and support our
favorite artists. I believe we are fans who actually buy the music performed
by the bands we love. Most list members interested in the Masada CDR are so
because they posses the albums. MP3, especially with jazz sounds, does not
fully replace the quality of CD and can only be a "backup" and an "easy
collection" of the CD music. And, admit it, the playlists come in handy (you
can create as many as you want) . That's the only reason for the existence
of this CDR.

I do believe it would be really wrong to get this CDR without the intention
of buying the music and thus refusing to support the incredible Masada
artists. Hey guys, I'm trying to do good for the loyal fans. The scumbags
who fool me and are only after this CDR without caring for the artists, hey
that's what they are then, scumbags. But they will not succeed to ruin John
Zorn, because, just as it is right now, Zorn and friends _can_  and _will_
continue because of us, the loyal fans. And this CDR won't change this.

Rob, Belgium


Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
"we're talking about music that is NOT selling millions. these people are
releasing beautiful music, and i want them to keep doing this.
i think if you make a cd like this for some friends that you know are big
fans it's fine, but to sell this on a public email list is not only illegal
but especially immoral." - robert


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:33:20 -0500
From: "Jesse Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: this Saturday, Pink Pony, NYC

Does anyone know where to get a listing of shows at the Pink Pony online?
The Voice had only one listing, and Citysearch had nothing.

Thanks,
Jesse


- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>
To: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 11:22 AM
Subject: this Saturday, Pink Pony, NYC


> All New Yorkers not planning on seeing Mark Dresser's Moisture on Saturday
night:
>
> Come to the Pink Pony, a cafe in the Lower East Side (Ludlow, b/n Houston
and Stanton). If you've never been there, it's a great place to see local
music of both the etablished and up-and-coming types. Of the former group,
William Parker, Joe McPhee, Test, and more have been recent performers.
(Myra Melford will be playing a rare solo set on Feb 29th, for $5!)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:53:07 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How'd it happen?

Early Zappa, especially the musique concrete on Only Money and the second
disk of Freak Out.  Tracking down the acknowledgements on Freak Out.  Mike
Oldfield recorded for Virgin, and look, here's albums by Henry Cow and
Tangerine Dream on the same label, let's give them a spin.  King Crimson (a
common starting point).

Once I had a small bunch of musicians I followed, they led me in many
interesting directions.  Besides Zappa's acknowledgements, Henry Cow had
both Chris Cutler and Fred Frith.  Cutler ran Recommended Records, which
had a great catalogue and mail order business, and which led me to RIO and
many other forms of unusual music.  Frith led me to Zorn (on the Parachute
releases) and Laswell (on Massacre), who both led me many interesting
places (they all continue to do so).  And Fripp led me to Eno and Peter
Gabriel (Fripp produced his second solo album, and Gabriel sang one of his
best songs on Fripp's Exposure album), with many ensuing interesting places
leading from them.

In addition, I played piano, and acquired a taste for contemporary music
(again, largely through Zappa's list), including Stockhausen, Cage, Crumb,
Xenakis and Boulez (not that I could every play anything except some of
Cage's prepared piano pieces).  Stockhausen's Hymnen changed my idea of
music forever

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing.  There is more
than one way to conquer a country.

- -- Raymond Chandler

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:48:06 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mingus on TV, tonight

Just a note that the Mingus documentary "Triumph of the Underdog" is
being shown on Bravo this evening at 10:30, Eastern time.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:25:08 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: mp3s, etc.

this comes up a bit on the list, apparently.
i personally would be one hundred percent behind someone uploading live zorn
on to the web for "Personal Use". and while people have qualms about mp3s vs.
cds, and this has been debated for quite some time, i just want to cast
another vote with the people who feel mp3s lead into buying the album.
It's just a different feeling owning an album..it's the reason people pay
large quantities of cash for John Oswald's Plunderphonics cd, right?

i consider sending zorn mp3s to my less musically-minded friends to be a good
deed. sure, there will be people who use mp3s instead of buying cds, but the
world's changing. saying that you're going to download mp3s from big labels
like Capitol and Warner Brothers (i don't know, are they the same these
days?) but not small ones seems hypocritical. the large labels are the ones
that have to fund billions of bands that get half-a-cent per cd moved. Zorn
pockets most of the cash from his record labels, and while he uses most of
that cash to put back into the label..well, i forget what my point was. just
let me know when the bootleg site opens up.
from,
matt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:41:31 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: how it happened

My answer to this question can be found by scrolling down to page three at
the following URL, an essay entitled, 'Jaw Dropping Gooseflesh:'

http://www.jetlink.net/~pfmentum/pfmentum/pfm11_97.pdf



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:44:12 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: how did it happen?

I sort of got in backwards. I listened only to classical music through
high school, being a serious Bartok and George Crumb nut.

Crumb is appearing live in LA this weekend.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:31:58 PST
From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How'd it happen?

    How'd it happen? Man, in one knockout punch.....

    I pretty much was completely unaware of the music world up untill the
begining of high school.  My father has a *extremely* limited view on what
is & isn't music.... although he's very fond of alot of classical, I'd say
he's more of a fan than a music lover(or obsessor, like i've become!).
Also, I had no kooler older siblings to pervert my artistic appetite with
punk rock or metal influences as I was growing up.... so up untill 8th & 9th
grade, what music I did listen to was commercial rock(albiet on the more
difficult side, such as Primus/Helmet/Tool instead of Nirvana & the like..)
Hmm, now that I think about it, I had read a few articles about Jazz & my
father bought me a John Scofield album, which I liked, but was wondering if
that as intense as Jazz got.. boy was I in for a shock.
     I had a friend in my first/second years of high school who I admired
alot, and though had great taste in movies & books & such, and i knew that
his older brother was a musician and I was starting to play guitar.. so I
asked for some suggestions of what he thought were good bands.  So one day
he volenteered to make me a mix tape.  I knew he was into more 'out' stuff,
but i had no idea... when he gave it to me i put it in my walkman durring
class & was promptly greeted by the first song; "Scud Attack" by
Painkiller....
    After I got over the initial shock I was amazed that there was something
this dense, this solid, this driving & provocative in existence.. now this
was JAZZ!!!(what i had imagined it as all along)  Oh sure, not traditional
Jazz, and I have since learned much about the history of Jazz & about music
in general. It was quite an ecclectic tape, almost reading like one of
Zorn's thank you lists(Lou Reed to Ground Zero to Camper Van Bethoven)...
and since i have become quite the music nerd & have tried to explore such
extreme directions in music on my own as a musician.... often I would skip
lunch at skool to save my money for this album or that.
   Unfortunately, my friend Charlie who had made this tape for me, an
amazing artist, writter, person & friend decided he no longer wanted to hang
around this world any longer, and took his life a few months after he gave
me that tape... it helped me throught a hard time, and it is practically a
sacred artifact to me now. I don't even play the original copy anymore.  It
really saddens me, because I know I owe so much to him, and his opening of
my eyes to a whole other world of more than just John Zorn & several
specific underground artists, but the drive to look & search & delve into
the depths of all the great music out there... Since then I've found punk,
indie rock, free jazz, and on & on...  I wish I had just one minute with him
again to thank him for enriching my life with such a discovery, plus to
saygoodbye...

   So now to keep the spirit alive, I try to spread this drive to other
people who I think might understand it, my younger cousins, local friends &
with people i meet online via tape trades...

*I apologize if this was a rather long reply to your post...

~robert ludington
...and much thanks to MPL.... see you on the other side.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:56:10 -0500
From: Fritz Senn <[e-mail]>
Subject: e-rax

hello, i just finished listening to this disc by e-rax (peter van bergen,
thomas lehn, and gert-jan prins) entitled "live at the bimhuis 1999"
(x-or), and i'm very very pleased by it. i guess this is more of that
electroacoustic improv to sink your teeth into... electronic wind
controller sampler, analogue synthesizer, and electronics radio. at first,
i was a little afraid the entire disc would sound like the first track:
electronic noises chased around frantically by a bear. but come second
track (there are eight), and it mellows out beautifully. what you end up
with is mostly slow, gurgling electronics layered over metallic drum noises
and weird tones. some parts bring to mind "poire_z", but i still rate that
a lot higher. however, i still recommend this highly. on the other hand, i
played that new konk pack (roger turner, hodgkinson, lehn ad infinitum)
"big deep" (grob) record, and had to switch it off after five minutes. it
rocks too much and i couldn't stomach it.

the new hecker remix disc off mego is also quite good. if you've seen the
list of remixers, you pretty much know what to expect, and that's not meant
in a bad way. other good: (dare i say) new yo la tengo w/ susie ibarra on 2
trax!, matrix "sleepwalk" (virus)...

Fritz on Fearsday.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:46:51 +0100
From: Shlomo Weintraub <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mp3s, etc.

If someone is going to put a Zorn bootleg-site... I still have some good quality
Masada bootleg to offer.
shlomo

[e-mail] schrieb:

> this comes up a bit on the list, apparently.
> i personally would be one hundred percent behind someone uploading live zorn
> on to the web for "Personal Use". and while people have qualms about mp3s vs.
> cds, and this has been debated for quite some time, i just want to cast
> another vote with the people who feel mp3s lead into buying the album.
> It's just a different feeling owning an album..it's the reason people pay
> large quantities of cash for John Oswald's Plunderphonics cd, right?
>
> i consider sending zorn mp3s to my less musically-minded friends to be a good
> deed. sure, there will be people who use mp3s instead of buying cds, but the
> world's changing. saying that you're going to download mp3s from big labels
> like Capitol and Warner Brothers (i don't know, are they the same these
> days?) but not small ones seems hypocritical. the large labels are the ones
> that have to fund billions of bands that get half-a-cent per cd moved. Zorn
> pockets most of the cash from his record labels, and while he uses most of
> that cash to put back into the label..well, i forget what my point was. just
> let me know when the bootleg site opens up.
> from,
> matt
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:05:27 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: The complete Masada Songbook

Rob, good intentions aside, it doesn't change the fact that what you're
doing is HIGHLY illegal. Back-up your own CDs if you'd like, but if you
distribute it like this, you're in extreme violation of copyright laws
which govern the releases from Tzadik and DIW.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2000, Rob Allaert <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Hi Robert,
>
>Just because this music isn't selling millions, I believe we have a whole
>different group of fans. I believe we are fans who admire and support our
>favorite artists. I believe we are fans who actually buy the music performed
>by the bands we love. Most list members interested in the Masada CDR are so
>because they posses the albums. MP3, especially with jazz sounds, does not
>fully replace the quality of CD and can only be a "backup" and an "easy
>collection" of the CD music. And, admit it, the playlists come in handy (you
>can create as many as you want) . That's the only reason for the existence
>of this CDR.
>
>I do believe it would be really wrong to get this CDR without the intention
>of buying the music and thus refusing to support the incredible Masada
>artists. Hey guys, I'm trying to do good for the loyal fans. The scumbags
>who fool me and are only after this CDR without caring for the artists, hey
>that's what they are then, scumbags. But they will not succeed to ruin John
>Zorn, because, just as it is right now, Zorn and friends _can_  and _will_
>continue because of us, the loyal fans. And this CDR won't change this.
>
>Rob, Belgium
>
>
>Vanheumen, Robert wrote:
>"we're talking about music that is NOT selling millions. these people are
>releasing beautiful music, and i want them to keep doing this.
>i think if you make a cd like this for some friends that you know are big
>fans it's fine, but to sell this on a public email list is not only illegal
>but especially immoral." - robert
>
>
>-
>
>


- --
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| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | http://www.metatronpress.com  | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:58:49 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: So. How'd it happen?

I had always been interested in Classical music since I was a kid.  I used to
go to sleep listening to the radio at night, sometimes to the border "X"
stations and that weird rock they played, but usually to WWL out of New
Orleans, La. at the time.  They used to do an all-night advertisement
featuring a "Best of" collection of The Chuck Wagon Gang followed by a "Best
of" collection of the "World's Greatest Classical Music".  I'd drift off/wake
up/drift off...all night long.  I firmly believe that's what got me started
in music outside of the norm.  Later on in life came that day I entered
Budget Tapes and Records in Columbia, SC back in 1973.  A guy named Tony
Kirvin (RIP) eventually talked me into buying LPs by Hatfield and the North,
Osanna, and Embryo.  Downhill from there ever since...;-)

- --
np: Zinman/Baltimore Symphony Orch.- Barber: Adagio/Symphony No. 1

=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:05:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: e-rax

- --- Fritz Senn <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> hello, i just finished listening to this disc by
> e-rax (peter van bergen, thomas lehn, and gert-jan
> prins) entitled "live at the bimhuis 1999" (x-or),
> and i'm very very pleased by it.

Definitely. I've only played it once through so far,
but it sounded really great. Thomas Lehn is a massive
force to be reckoned with. I'd also encourage folks
check out the new Lehn/Hemingway 2-CD duet on our own
Jon Abbey's Erstwhile label. It kicks ass, for sure.

> on the other hand, i played that new konk pack
> (roger turner, hodgkinson, lehn ad infinitum) "big
> deep" (grob) record, and had to switch it off after
> five minutes. it rocks too much and i couldn't
> stomach it.

I like this one a lot too -- a pleasant surprise for
me, since I'm not much of a Hodgkinson fan (he sticks
to tabletop guitar for the most part, the canvas for
Lehn's paint). I'm beginning to think Lehn can make
anything sound good... We'll see how the upcoming duet
with Eugene Chadbourne on Grob turns out (not that I'm
opposed to Chad, it just seems like an odd pairing).

                 -Tom Pratt
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #862
*******************************


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