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2000-02-27
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #864
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, February 27 2000 Volume 02 : Number 864
In this issue:
-
Zappa
Morrissey
Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
Re: mp3s
Fw: kletka red - european dates
Art of Memory.
RE: jesus and the mary chain (was: how did it happen?)
Re: jesus and the mary chain (was: how did it happen?)
trade page
Warsaw Summer Jazz Days
Re: How'd it happen
zappa yellow shark etc.
More sale/trade updates
Re: zappa yellow shark etc.
Re: zappa yellow shark etc.
Odp: zappa yellow shark etc.
Odp: zappa yellow shark etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:09:00 PST
From: "J.M. Schuller" <kwashikor@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zappa
Thing Fish- Sucks
Yellow Shark- Excellent and beautiful
67-74 is his best work!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 08:17:48 -0400
From: "Neil H. Enet" <nilugo@usa.net>
Subject: Morrissey
- --Is there any other "modern" (not anymore) band which could put up such
- --fantastic singles?
I'm also a fan of SUEDE (THE LONDON SUEDE in the US) and I really enjoy
their music, it has that same British "I don't know what" that Smiths and
Morrissey had/have. I definetely recomend their first two albums (SUEDE,
DOG MAN STAR)for great great songs and british sensibility, their last two
albums (COMING UP, HEAD MUSIC) revolve around plain brit trash glam rock.
I think that's the only band that can hold a candle next to Moz (in my
opinion). Moz actually played one of their songs (My Insatiable One) in one
of his concerts during 1992 if I recall.
- --Personally (and I know I am one of the few) actually like the Solo
- --Morrissey stuff better than the Smiths.
Count me in too. I prefer his solo albums, they are just more mature and
well VAUXHALL AND I is just one of the best "pop" albums of all times. I
don't remember who asked what has Morrissey done lately that is worth
checking out besides his days in the Smiths, well .... this album is the
best thing that has ever happened to him.
And yes you're right Tosh, I always hear people saying that his glory days
are with the SMITHS .... nope, don't think so.
Neil H. Enet
- ------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:39:31 +0100
From: Shlomo Weintraub <Ba4205@fen.baynet.de>
Subject: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
I have not heard Thing Fish yet, but I enjoyed Yellow Shark. The Zappa record I
like most is "Roxy & Elsewhere". No explanation at this point, just listen to
the album.
shlomo
"Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" schrieb:
> I've been noticing a number of people who mention Zappa as their early
> influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums:
>
> Thing Fish
> Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern)
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:22:19 -0500
From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Re: zappa (how'd it happen)
>
>
>This is ironic. In my very few moments of conversation with John, I've found
>him to be WAY more tolerant than Zappa.
Agreed!. I recall that Frank liked to say that there was
nothing worthwhile being done in music, while in the same breath, say
that the only time he ever heard music other than his own, was when
he went to the drugstore. Kind of hypocritical from a guy who loved
to point out the ignorance of others.
RW
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 11:50:58 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: mp3s
In a message dated 2/25/00 12:08:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
shady@gladstone.uoregon.edu writes:
<< Here's my take.
Music is a pure thing.
Fuck copyrights and intellectual property rights,
All bullshit created by fear.
The music is the insanity.
Insanity must flourish.
Let it out.
Dystopia Membrane Goldstein, FLDc >>
Kinda easy to say when it's not putting next month's rent in your pocket,
isn't it?
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:17:48 +0100
From: "john rust" <johnrust@blinx.de>
Subject: Fw: kletka red - european dates
Just got it from Leonid Soybelman from Kletka Red /debut-CD Hijacking on
Tzadik. the band features Tony Buck (ex-Ground Zero, The Necks, Peril), Andy
Moor (The Ex, Dog Faced Hermans) and Joe Williamson/...
Don't miss -
>KLETKA RED:
>28.02 Faenza, Clandestino
>29.02 Montepulciano, Metropoliziani
> 1.03 Venezia, IUAV
> 2.03 Bern, Reithalle
> 3.03 Freiburg, KTS
> 4.03 Paris, Instants Chavires
> 5.03 Rotterdam, Dodorama
> 6.03 Amsterdam, Zaal100
BTW, Leonid and his band Ne Zhdali was mentioned recently by Caleb T.
Deupree:
<<There is also a fairly recent disk which documents the
BTMSQ's tour of eastern Europe, where they met up and recorded an album
with the (Estonian? Lithuanian?) group Ne Zhdali, the first group which
featured Leonid Soybelman of Kletka Red (on Tzadik). I haven't heard
Kletka Red, but Ne Zhedali is/was a terrific five-member punk/RIO type
band, and the addition of the horn section makes the album especially
memorable.>>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:02:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Theo Klaase <river_of_dogs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Art of Memory.
Can anyone tell me what this album is about? I'd like
to trade someone something for it.
=====
- -That which is Theodorus... "The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason." www.freeyellow.com/members7/theodorus/index.html
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 07:37:30 +0100
From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@emd.pl>
Subject: RE: jesus and the mary chain (was: how did it happen?)
> Add me to the list of Smiths fans. The Jesus & The Mary
> Chain and The Smiths
> were the two groups that made me realize how much I had
> lost by discarding
> rock music during most of the '80s.
I remember the first time I heard Jesus and the Mary Chain, it was a
single before the first album. It was a total shock, but after a while
I was listening to this song all the time! I was a kind then, probably
this song has opened my ears...
__________________________________________________________________
Artur Nowak [arno AT emd.pl]
www.emd.pl - Discography of Bill Frisell
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:30:46 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: jesus and the mary chain (was: how did it happen?)
On Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 07:37:30AM +0100, Artur Nowak wrote:
> I remember the first time I heard Jesus and the Mary Chain, it was a
> single before the first album. It was a total shock, but after a while
> I was listening to this song all the time! I was a kind then, probably
> this song has opened my ears...
I remember the first time I heard Jesus and Mary Chain. It was the
first album. I realized that if they found a competent engineer to
make the vocals less than a jumble hidden behind the guitar, they
might succeed in their obvious quest to sound like the Monkees with a
hangover.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:27:16 EST
From: APoesia794@aol.com
Subject: trade page
hi everyone. my trade page is up for those interested. thanks. jt
http://members.aol.com/apoesia794
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:20:40 EST
From: Alejo88@aol.com
Subject: Warsaw Summer Jazz Days
Didn't someone in here have a website listing the tentative line-up for the
Warsaw Summer Jazz Days in Poland this year?
If you're out there (or if anyone has it bookmarked), I'd love to have the
address again.
Thanks!
Alex
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 10:44:01 EST
From: Nervenet@aol.com
Subject: Re: How'd it happen
My direct interest in Zorn came through Fred Frith, and my direct
interest in Frith came through the Residents. In college I read a lot about
music (eventually finding my way to better writers than the Rolling Stone
guides could offer - Robert Christgau and Lester Bangs) and always seemed to
look for the most "out there" thing I could find - the stuff you just didn't
hear on the radio. I mean, when Camper Van Beethoven and Husker Du's "Flip
Your Wig" (both of whom I like immensely) are considered underground, you
know there's got to be more out there. And for a long time, The Residents
(and confere Snakefinger) were it, especially their brutal version of
"Satisfaction," which tears Devo's limb from limb, IMO (and I like Devo, too,
don't get me wrong).
Fleshing out their catalog brought me into contact with a certain Fred
Frith, who played guitar on a couple records. Although I preferred
Snakefinger's guitar at the time, this Frith fellow interested me enough to
order some of his records from the Residents' Ralph label, which interested
me enough to buy some not on their label and to go see him at the (old)
Knitting Factory, which didn't change my life, but certainly expanded my
boundaries when I saw him beat an old guitar with a sock.
About this time, a roommate who owned Naked City's first album moved in
and though I thought it was pretty out there, it did pique my interest in
jazz, which I had previously associated with someone singing
"skiddly-boo-bop" and thought I couldn't stand (I'd later learn better).
Again, I was shown that there was more out there than met the eye. Later on I
went to Lunch for Your Ears just to browse and they seemed to be closed
although the gate was partway up. Manny spotted me and opened the door but
wouldn't let me in and told me he knew his entire stock and what was I
looking for? I told him I liked Fred Frith and he tried to push his most
expensive Frith records on me, but when I told him I only had $20 bucks and
wasn't sure i wanted to spend the whole thing he settled for forcing "Torture
Garden"($8) and "Guitar Solos 3" ($12) on me. I wasn't sure about either one
at the time, but in retrospect, I'm glad he did it and that I did. What ever
happened to him? He looked sick at that time and I heard rumors but nothing
concrete.
Moving back home to Denver and starting to work at a record store brought
me into contact with a Miles Davis nut and general jazz fan who intro'd me to
Miles's 70's material, all of which took time to absorb, and like someone
else here, I went straight for the most difficult music I could find -
Coltrane's "Ascension," Ornette's "Free Jazz" (which, since someone asked, is
his most difficult album, but maybe not his most difficult single piece of
music), and, especially Albert Ayler's "Love Cry," which was utterly
incomprehensible to me and really made me sit down and think when I took the
opportunity to try to follow it. From there I worked my way backwards into
more straightforward stuff (and also outwards into the rest of the fringe
material) and haven't looked back.
Other "rock" culprits that pushed me on my way to my current listening
habits - Eno, Arto Lindsay, Pere Ubu, early Husker Du, early Ramones,
brit-dance band Art of Noise, Laurie Anderson, X-Ray Spex.
Other "jazz" culprits that pushed me on my way to my current listening
habits - Sun Ra, Braxton, Cecil Taylor, Mingus (I'd add to the chorus
supporting "Mingus at Antibes" as it was the first one I got into of his),
Blood Ulmer, Sonny Sharrock, and later on Tim Berne got me interested in
music that was being made today.
Patrick M. Brown
Nervenet@aol.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 11:54:29 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: zappa yellow shark etc.
> influence. What do some of you folks think of these albums:
> Thing Fish
> Yellow Shark (Ensemble Modern)
i do not like TF. It is rather boring. I do think - and I do think that
many will agree - that 'Joe's garage' is MUCH better, both in terms of
musical performance and libretto. There are really stunning piecees on it
(consider packard gooose, for example, or the final song - a little green
rosetta).
>It seems that the yellow shark album while
> it may represent the music Zappa always hoped to write it may not appeal
to
> most Zappa listeners. Maybe it belongs more in the area of Varese
(Zappa's
> hero), but it seems that modern classical listeners are hesitant to
consider
> Zappa as a composer. Do they have good reason? Maybe there are some
Varese,
> Crumb, Bartok etc. fans out there who can help.
I do find YS incredible. Generally, I think that Zappa got back to his
highest form in late '80s - I consider the 88 band to be the best of his
rock groups (those who do not beleieve me have not listened to Make a Jazz
Noise Here, his best album) - after a periond of weaker performance in the
80-84 period (some of the 84 shows are rather sorry). The performances on YS
are incredible, it is (in my opinion) one of the best records from this
point of view (it is much better then the Boulez stuff - although Boulez is
my favouite conductor). Peter Rundall (and FZ...) & the moderns did an
extraordinary job.
Zappa was a great composer - and all the hesitations on this point are
simply incompetent, regarding the conductors who worked on his orchestral
pieces (Zubin Mehta, Kent Nagano, Pierre Boulez) - it is the ABSOLUTE TOP.
Although I must agree that part of the success of the YS comes from the fact
that there were 'external' arrangments used.
One has to remember that there was always an importatnt element of
imperfection in Zappa's music ( at least I see it that way). He tried to
make achieve something , and after he did ( which involved a high degree of
perfectionism), he wasn't very much interested in the detils he found
unimportant. That what makes his music vivid - we see the process of
creation, the goals he wanted to achieve, what he achieved and what he
missed.
BTW - I am desperatly looking for some 88 zappa live video? Can anyone help
me - there should be loads of them somewhere?
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought - how could I know what I was never tought?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 18:18:41 +0000
From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: More sale/trade updates
I have another bunch of updates on my sale/trade list, which now looks like
the following, descriptions are at the url below:
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html
Aphasia: Stereoisomerism. Staaplat
Bang on a Can: Industry, Sony Classical.
Berio: Corale, Chemins II&IV, "Points on the Curve to find...". Ensemble
InterContemporain, conducted by Boulez. Sony Classical.
Blastula. Atavistic.
Chris Cutler/Fred Frith: Live. ReR
Thomas Demenga plays works by Holliger & Bach. ECM
Bob Drake, Little Black Train. CTA.
CasparBrotzmann Massaker: Koksofen. Our Choice.
CasparBrotzmann Massaker: Last Home. Blast First.
Dirty Three: Sad & Dangerous. Big Cat
John Fahey:Requia. Vanguard.
Heiner Goebbels/Alfred Harth:GoebbelsHart. Evva.
Groovy. Extreme.
John Hassell and Bluescreen: Dressing for Pleasure, Warner.
Howard, Hayward, Frith, Laswell: Meridiem. Materiali Sonori.
Kriedler. Weekend.Kiff<
Bill Laswell: Invisible Design. Tzadik.
Gary Lucas:Busy Being Born. Tzadik.
Melt Banana: MxBx 1998/13000 Miles at Light Velocity. Tzadik
Mystery: Death Praxis. Tzadik
Microstoria: _snd. Mille Plateaux
Paul Miller: Viral Sonata. Asphodel
Ikue Mori: Garden. Tzadik
Oval:94diskont. Mille Plateaux.
Playgroup:Epic Sound Battles vols 1 & 2. On-U Sounds.
Ravi, In Celebration. Ravi Shankar. Angel.
Marc Ribot Y Los CubanosPostizos. Atlantic
Ruins: Stonehenge. Shimmy
Ruins: Symphonica. Tzadik
Paul Schutze: Deus Ex Machina; The Annhiliating Angel; Regard; Isabelle
Eberhardt; The Surgery of Touch. Tone Casualties.
A Small Good Thing: Cool, Cool Water, Soleilmoon.
Silver Apples: ST and Contact. MCA
David Soldier: Smut, Avant
David Soldier: The Kropotkins,
Sonic Youth: Dirty, Geffen
Sonic Youth: Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star, Geffen.
Strafe FR: Lufthunger. Soleilmoon
Simon Fisher Turner: Blue. Mute
Universal Congress of...: The Eleventh Hour Shine On, Enemy
Various, Resurrection Part 1 Composed music Works. Winter & Winter.
Various: Live at the Knitting Factory Vol3
ZNR: Barricade3. ReR
- --
White Noise
For experimental events in Scotland
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 15:02:26 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: zappa yellow shark etc.
On Sun, Feb 27, 2000 at 11:54:29AM +0100, Marcin Gokieli wrote:
> One has to remember that there was always an importatnt element of
> imperfection in Zappa's music ( at least I see it that way). He tried to
> make achieve something , and after he did ( which involved a high degree of
> perfectionism), he wasn't very much interested in the detils he found
> unimportant. That what makes his music vivid - we see the process of
> creation, the goals he wanted to achieve, what he achieved and what he
> missed.
How would you correlate this with all the reports of Zappa's extreme
perfectionism, his complaints about the inability of people to play his
work right, and his retreat into the Synclavier so that he would have
complete control of the result? Which details do you believe him to
have found unimportant?
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 12:57:34 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@jetlink.net>
Subject: Re: zappa yellow shark etc.
>>>I do find YS incredible. Generally, I think that Zappa got back to his
highest form in late '80s - I consider the 88 band to be the best of his
rock groups (those who do not beleieve me have not listened to Make a Jazz
Noise Here, his best album)<<<
I resemble that presumption. If I had to throw away either Uncle Meat or
Jazz Noise, Noise would have to go.
But I guess the early Mothers were not a rock group, eh?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:58:10 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: zappa yellow shark etc.
>If I had to throw away either Uncle Meat or
> Jazz Noise, Noise would have to go.
well, UM is a great thing. What is the film like? I have never seen it
> But I guess the early Mothers were not a rock group, eh?
Well...
Marcin Gokieli
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought - how could I know what I was never tought?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 00:56:10 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcing@mospan.pl>
Subject: Odp: zappa yellow shark etc.
replying to my note about zappa's imeprfections, Joseph Zitt wrtote:
> How would you correlate this with all the reports of Zappa's extreme
> perfectionism, his complaints about the inability of people to play his
> work right, and his retreat into the Synclavier so that he would have
> complete control of the result? Which details do you believe him to
> have found unimportant?
OK, that's what I am talking about. He wanted to have the roght tempo and
the rythmic arrangements (he was seriously disgusted - in the real zappa
book - by the performance of boulez's 'marteau sans maitre' conducted by a
cerain Robert Craft, Stravinsky's assistant and 'official conductor) and
could not stand apparantly any mistakes fromthis point of view. He could
concede the 'live' feel of the performances for that. He wanted to have the
stuff he wanted PLAYED, and the way it was executed was less important. That
's what i meant. That's why he used synlavier, in my opinion.
Marcin Gokieli
"Oh Nick, I had the strangest dream!
I thought - how could I know what I was never tought?"
Stravinsky/Auden "The Rake's Progress"
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #864
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