ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n844

Internet Message Format | 2000-01-28 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #844
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest      Saturday, January 29 2000      Volume 02 : Number 844



In this issue:
-
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Threadgill
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Threadgill
       Fwd: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Taboo & Exile photo
       The Young Philadelphians
       Re: Recommendations of Ayler
       3 reviews
       Escalator Over the Hill
       Re: Fwd: Taboo & Exile Imagery
       Re: Ayler recs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:07:11 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

In a message dated 00-01-27 15:26:30 EST, [e-mail] writes:
>On 27 Jan 00 11:14:53 -0800  Cindy Emch wrote:
>> I picked up the second volume of the Tzadik Musci/Romance series, "Taboo
>and Exile"
>> yesterday and was kinda freaked out by some of the imagery.
>Just take a deep breath and it should be fine.
>> (I am referring to the image that becomes the front cover when the paper
>sleeve is slipped off.)
>When you read about what is happening in the rest of world (Rwanda, Cambodia,
>Serbia, etc), do you have a stronger expression than "freaked out" to
>describe what happens there?

If one's take on Zorn's cover art for this release is that it is at least
suggestive of child pornography, then being "freaked out" is a perfectly
understandable response.

Dave Royko

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:23:52 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Threadgill

Does anyone have recommendations for 'must-have' or 'most frequently
listened to' Henry Threadgill albums? I have Carry the Day and
Song Out of My Trees (also Air's "Lore"), all of which I like.  Looking
for something more like the first two with the less jazz-like
instrumentation, especially.

Thanks


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:42:08 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:07:11 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> If one's take on Zorn's cover art for this release is that it is at least
> suggestive of child pornography, then being "freaked out" is a perfectly
> understandable response.

What would freak me out is Zorn defending child pornography. Looking at
this picture is just a reminder that the world is not own by Disney yet.

With this picture, Zorn just does what he likes to do: put our nose in the
horror of the world. I personally don't need Zorn's enlightment on this
topic, and as far as I know, Zorn did not take the picture himself, right
(because *THAT* would have freaked me out)?

But with the usual paranoia in the US (where the carrier of a fact is
often confused with the one who did it), I am sure that some people will
interpret this picture as an apology of child pornography. I hope that Zorn
won't have to defend himself on a mailing list devoted to him (and which has
already seen a lot).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:50:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

In a message dated 00-01-27 17:42:22 EST, you write:
>What would freak me out is Zorn defending child pornography. Looking at
>this picture is just a reminder that the world is not own by Disney yet.
>With this picture, Zorn just does what he likes to do: put our nose in the
>horror of the world. I personally don't need Zorn's enlightment on this
>topic, and as far as I know, Zorn did not take the picture himself, right
>(because *THAT* would have freaked me out)?
>But with the usual paranoia in the US (where the carrier of a fact is
>often confused with the one who did it), I am sure that some people will
>interpret this picture as an apology of child pornography. I hope that Zorn
>won't have to defend himself on a mailing list devoted to him (and which has
>already seen a lot).

Then I guess I'm not sure why you answered the earlier post the way you did.
If Zorn's putting our nose into the horror of the world with that cover art,
then Cindy being "freaked out" is not only an understandable response, but
the desired response. No defense neccessary, from neither Zorn, or Cindy for
her reaction.

Dave Royko

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:14:22 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 17:50:37 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Then I guess I'm not sure why you answered the earlier post the way you did.

Because I am always puzzled by people who act so surprised (specially on
a list where people are really curious and keeping an eye on what is happening
in the rest of the world), or they are clueless or they have an agenda (like
you know, the innocent questions on r.m.b. masquerading as genuine search for
enlightment).

> If Zorn's putting our nose into the horror of the world with that cover art,
> then Cindy being "freaked out" is not only an understandable response, but
> the desired response. No defense neccessary, from neither Zorn, or Cindy for
> her reaction.

You are right. Maybe that I am surprised (or disappointed) that his trick
still works (for those who want to be "freaked out"). How can you be "freaked
out" by such pictures when you are aware of what is happening in the world?

    Patrice (surely overeacting, but that's not the 1st time, and it
        won't be the last).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:47:04 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

On Thu, Jan 27, 2000 at 03:14:22PM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> You are right. Maybe that I am surprised (or disappointed) that his trick
> still works (for those who want to be "freaked out"). How can you be "freaked
> out" by such pictures when you are aware of what is happening in the world?

Perhaps "freaked out" is lesser reaction than "enraged" or "appalled".

After all, that children are dying in Whereveria does not make a
cockroach in your cereal palatable.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: 27 Jan 2000 17:58:21 -0600
From: Ben Axelrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Threadgill

     I really like Too Much Sugar... on Axiom.  There's a long track
     "Better Wrapped/Better Unwrapped" that features Simon Shaheen & Leroy
     Jenkins on violin and a group of South American drummers doing a call
     and response.

     Ben


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Threadgill
Author:  [e-mail] at Internet-USA
Date:    1/27/00 4:32 PM


Does anyone have recommendations for 'must-have' or 'most frequently
listened to' Henry Threadgill albums? I have Carry the Day and
Song Out of My Trees (also Air's "Lore"), all of which I like.  Looking
for something more like the first two with the less jazz-like
instrumentation, especially.

Thanks


- -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:27:36 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Fwd: Taboo & Exile Imagery

- --part1_c0.d4e7d4.25c25898_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



- --part1_c0.d4e7d4.25c25898_boundary
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Disposition: inline

Return-path: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Full-name: Tag Yr It
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:26:59 EST
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
To: [e-mail]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10

In a message dated 1/27/00 6:15:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<  Because I am always puzzled by people who act so surprised (specially on
 a list where people are really curious and keeping an eye on what is
happening
 in the rest of the world), or they are clueless or they have an agenda (like
 you know, the innocent questions on r.m.b. masquerading as genuine search for
 enlightment).
 >>

After reading this discussion and looking at the Taboo and Exile cover art
again.....what is making people think that this artwork is a commentary on
child pornography? Perhaps primarily because its a John Zorn cover?

Dale.

- --part1_c0.d4e7d4.25c25898_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:35:19 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery

<< After reading this discussion and looking at the Taboo and Exile cover
art
again.....what is making people think that this artwork is a commentary on
child pornography? Perhaps primarily because its a John Zorn cover? >>

Well it's either a commentary on child pornography or a celebration thereof
on Zorn's part. I think most of us at least hope it is the former...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:46:01 -0800 (PST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Taboo & Exile photo

Just to put my two cents in as it seems that this thread is focused on the=
 front inside cover with the topless girl, that image didn't bug me much. =
 However, the hidden insert photo with the girl in that pose is a bit much=
 for me.  I know the theme is taboo and exile but IMO, he went a little to=
o far.

Davy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 13:01:12 -0300
From: "BROGGI, GUSTAVO" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Young Philadelphians

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69A8.E81F61FA
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi zornies: does anybody knows if The Young Philadelphians have any
recording?

Thanks

Gustavo

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69A8.E81F61FA
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2448.0">
<TITLE>The Young Philadelphians</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Hi zornies: does anybody knows if The Young Philadelphians have any recording?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Thanks </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Gustavo</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF69A8.E81F61FA--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:03:29 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recommendations of Ayler

Just spent 10 minutes while on line trying to find an old CODA with a
review of all of Ayler's work --couldn't --too many mags, not enough time.

However I remember the writer warning against a certain Ayler CD that was
put out w/o Haines' permission and was going to be superseded by a
definite reissue of the Albert-Sunny-Peacock tracks.

I would hope the Inrespect cited below is the legit rather than the
bootleg session.

Ken Waxman


On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 [e-mail] wrote>
> for fans of Spiritual Unity, there's a little-known double CD on a German
> label, Albert Smiles With Sunny (Inrespect) (carried by North Country,
> although they don't list this one currently). it's the full recordings of the
> Spiritual Unity sessions/concert, 85 minutes of music, all recorded that same
> day, 7/10/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:58:38 -0500
From: "David J. Keffer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: 3 reviews

Hey Folks on the Zorn-list,

Just picked up three new discs and thought I might contribute some reviews
to the zorn list.

(1)  Christian Fennesz, Jim O'Rourke, and Peter Rehberg
    "The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg" (Mego 031, cd)

The farther I listened into this cd, the more I was reminded of
O'Rourkes "Terminal Pharmacy" on Tzadik.  Combination of electronic
surface noise overlaid on sampled(?) melodic semi-classical music.
It's difficult (for me) to determine the contributions of the three
musicians but I have a hard time distinguishing it from O'Rourke's
solo work.  I can't say that I prefer "The Magic Sound of Fenno'berg"
more or less than "Terminal Pharmacy".  They are both pretty good.

(2)  Michael Gira
    "The Somniloquist" (Young God Records, YG04, cd)

This is a reading of 5 stories from Gira's collection of
shorts stories, The Consumer, published by Rollins' 2.13.63 publishing
house back around about 1995.  The Somniloquist was
available on tape during the final SWANS tour in 97 but quickly
sold out.  Now it is issued on cd.  If you haven't read The
Consumer, the stories are written in Gira's hyper-detailed
ultra-repulsive style, focusing on the peculiar manifestations of
self-inflicted dementia and the miserable consequences of it.
In line with SWANS lyrical output, the stories are basically
an attempt to explore the most grisly material imaginable:
incest, self-mutilation, pedophilia, etc...you get the point.
Not for the weak of heart.

(3)  George Lewis
    "Endless Shout" (Tzadik, TZ 7056, cd)

This is sort of George Lewis sampler of recent works.  Generally
I think a sampler is a pretty bad way to listen to music.
This release is no exception and I bought it with reservations.
It's better to hear an entire recording in a particular style
than to hear someone's perception of the high-lights of unrelated
material jammed back to back on a single cd.  (Which is why the
recent Zorn releases have been so unappetizing.)  Still, I am
a fan of George Lewis and will take whatever I can get from him.
This cd has four totally unrelated pieces:

(a) Northstar Boogaloo
This is a duo for percussion and voice.  It's very unlike
any previous output I have heard from G. Lewis (Chicago
Slow Dance, Voyager, Homage to Charles Parker, Save Mon,
conversations with Turetzky, News for Lulu, etc.).  It's
rythmic and is sort of an intellectual version of a rap,
and is some sort of homage to/commentary on basketball.
A reoccuring sample: "I don't want to be like Mike."  It's pretty nice.

(b)  Endless Shout
This is a 16-minute solo piano piece, composed by Lewis.
I don't have enough interest in solo piano pieces to comment
objectively on this.  Reminds me a little of Charles Ives
with the quick changes from somber piano to jaunty snatches
of popular songs.

(c) Shadowgraph 4 (for creative orchestra)
I don't know the proper name for this genre of music but it
is easily identifiable.  A blind-folded person would be
hard pressed to distinguish this 11-minute piece for 15
piece orchestra and voice from the "X-Communication" release
on FMP (FMP CD 33, with Deane, Hirsch, Hwang, Koch, Lovens,
Morris, Reichel, and Schutz) or from a "Cobra" performance.
I am sure the method used to create "Shadowgraph 4" is
different than that for Cobra, but on a purely audio-output
level, the result is the same--a bunch of people playing
strings and horns simultaneously in the collective improv idiom,
sometimes in synch, sometimes not--excrutiatingly already done.

(d)  Voyager
20-minutes more of the same that appeared on Lewis's "Voyager" cd on AVANT
(AVAN 014) back in 1993.

David K.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:59:31 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Escalator Over the Hill

DOCUMENTARY FILM OF ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL CDS
DEBUTS AT FILM FEST

Jack Bruce, Don Cherry, Don Preston appear in jazz
documentary Escalator Over the Hill, which plays
Thursday (Feb. 3), at Portland, Ore.'s Reel Music film
festival.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:11:36 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Taboo & Exile Imagery

[e-mail] wrote:
>
>
>
>     ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Taboo & Exile Imagery
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:26:59 EST
> From: [e-mail]
> To: [e-mail]
>
> In a message dated 1/27/00 6:15:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> <<  Because I am always puzzled by people who act so surprised (specially on
>  a list where people are really curious and keeping an eye on what is
> happening
>  in the rest of the world), or they are clueless or they have an agenda (like
>  you know, the innocent questions on r.m.b. masquerading as genuine search for
>  enlightment).
>  >>

I'm not sure what you mean by this, Patrick.  I found the cover of T and
E disturbing on first opening it.  Eroticization (sorry!) of children by
adults *is* disturbing to me.  OK, so maybe it is a commentary on child
pornography.  But then the inside photo raises even more questions.  So
what is Zorn up to here?  Is he commenting on the practice of kiddie
porn?  Is he trying to raise questions about the relationship between
kiddie porn and art?  Is he into kiddie porn himself?  Does he care at
all about the conditions under which child pornography is produced?

Sorry if these questions appear hopelessly naive.  All brutalizing of
children is deplorable.  All brutalizing of anybody is.  But it seems
that Zorn is just deflecting attention (for better or for worse) away
from the music.
>
> After reading this discussion and looking at the Taboo and Exile cover art
> again.....what is making people think that this artwork is a commentary on
> child pornography? Perhaps primarily because its a John Zorn cover?
>
As someone else said, it's either a comment on child porn, or it *is*
child porn.

- --Mike

- --
Mike Chamberlain
Teacher, Writer, Broadcaster, Father, Farmer,  Baseball Fan, Jazz Nerd,
Sumo Nut, Bald Guy

"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused."

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:03:11 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Ayler recs

I like just about all the Ayler that I've heard, (although I've never found
the much-maligned "Newgrass" on Impulse!.) but I have a soft spot in my heart
for "Love Cry," the first one I ever bought. In the bigger picture i
recognize that it's not as accomplished as "Spiritual Unity" and that the
Greenwich Village sessions ( from various locations in 1966, not just Village
Vanguard as I think someone said here) expand on what he's doing in "Love
Cry," but I still recommend it for a couple reasons. The title cut and
"Unviersal Indians" with Ayler singing glossolalia over the band sound great
no matter what, and the addition of a harpsichord on some cuts still
transfixes me at times, although at others I find it simply "novel." But
again, I've never heard any that I haven't liked, including the "Fondation
Maeght" series on Jazz View, which some fans consider the dregs. Of course,
the Greenwich Village sessions and "Spiritual Unity" are also great, probably
better, I'm just stumping for a personal fave here. A quick plug too for
"Spirits Rejoice," on ESP.
Patrick Brown
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #844
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]