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1999-12-19
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #818
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, December 20 1999 Volume 02 : Number 818
In this issue:
-
Re: Wim Mertens
re: hemingway electro-acoustic
Re: Wim Mertens
RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
Sorry...
boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
Re: boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
Re: I Buy Spy vs. Spy
the big red mit
Re: the big red mit
White Noise update
RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
Re: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:35:10 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Wim Mertens
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:04:17 EST KWaltuch@aol.com wrote:
>
> If you haven't heard of Mertens, he's a Belgian minimalist composer very
> worth checking out.
And was a member of Soft Verdict, an original rock group from early '80s.
Patrice.
PS: he is also the interviewer of John Cage in the (infamous) interview where
Cage qualifies Glenn Branca's music of... fachist!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:49:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: re: hemingway electro-acoustic
On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Zorn List Digest wrote:
> Rare but not unique. The Hemingway electroacoustic album on Random
> Acoustics is a pretty interesting solo set, including some pieces for tape,
> pieces for tape and percussion, and I think a piece for percussion and live
> electronics.
if anyone in the LA area is interested, i just saw the hemingway
electroacoustic disc on RA at rhino on westwood, used, US$4.99, in the
understock for the used 'new music' cds (saw it today, 17 december).
apologies for the possibly wasted bandwidth. - whit
ps. I like the disc, but prefer his solo percussion (no electronics) disc
on RA.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:59:03 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Wim Mertens
At 08:04 PM 12/17/99 EST, KWaltuch@aol.com wrote:
>I was wondering if anyone out there, in the highly informed and intellectual
>crowd, could recommend any Wim Mertens titles to me. I own "Sources of
>Sleeplessness" and "Motives for Writing", both of which I like a great
deal.
>His albums tend to be quite expensive, and I've struck out several times, as
>his styles are so broad. Please write back to my address with any
>suggestions or input.
I started with his albums on Windham Hill and liked them so much I started
tracking down a couple of his Crepuscule albums. I discovered that the WH
albums were compilations from the various Crepuscule releases, and that WH
had really picked the pieces I liked the best. I prefer his piano work to
his vocals, so if you're the same way, I'd recommend getting the two
Windham Hill releases. One of them has a long piece (takes up a whole side
of vinyl) for a couple of pianos that is very lovely.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
than one way to conquer a country.
- -- Raymond Chandler
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:32:07 -0800 (PST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?A?= <Enfermo@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
- --- Linares Hugo <hulinare@bemberg.com.ar> escribi≤:
>
>
>
> > I think taping isn┤t such a bad thing, as long as you┤re not
> making
> > any profits with it, it┤s like making copies for my friends,
> which I
> > do a lot, I think that has more to do with spreading good music
> > around, it┤s no big deal for me anyway.
> >
> >
> I disagree with this; by chance, don't you think your friends
> could
> be possible buyers or consumers of this stuff?
> That is to say: money for musicians.
> I mean: the most you record, the less money (profit) musicians
> will
> get.
>
> Just my peso.
>
> Hugo
> > _____________________________________________
> >
>
Well Hugo, I disagree. See, for instance with Zorn, I only taped
Naked City for some of my friends, and 2 of them already bought the
CD. It┤s not like I┤m selling the tape or something, I just like to
get my friends exposed to music I think is amazingly well done. So if
they liked it, they surely will get the CD because they all are (like
me) fond of having the original packaging-artwork-whatever.
Anyway, I only taped the NC album, and if they want to get something
else by Zorn they won┤t get it from me!!!! At least those are my
friends who have cash they can use in music, some of my friends
actually work for a living, so they┤re actually concerned with saving
money, they can┤t afford 10 CDs a month, so I try and be helpful.
Just my devalued Sol (it takes 3 and a half to make a $)
A
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:00:40 -0500
From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net>
Subject: Sorry...
Hi,
I'm the asshole that sent out that message about the email virus
warnings. What can I say. I can be gullible sometimes. I'm sorry that
I wasted everyone's email discussion group reading time with this "spam"
(for lack of a better phrase). And thank you to the people who sent me
website addresses dealing with internet hoaxes. Next time I recieve one
of these messages, I will check it out there before I do anything else.
The boy who unintentionally cried wolf,
Zach Griffin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:19:40 -0800
From: Anish Kejariwal <anishk@earthlink.net>
Subject: boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
What is the difference between the boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
box set and single? Does the single contain music on the box set?
Or does the single correspond to the box set the same way Super Go
corresponded to Super Are?
I've been trying to figure this out by looking at the cdnow.com and
amazon.com web site, and I'm unsure of which to buy, or whether to
buy both.
Anish
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 01:24:19 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
In a message dated 12/19/99 1:20:04 AM, anishk@earthlink.net writes:
<< What is the difference between the boredoms' Vision Creation Newsun
box set and single? Does the single contain music on the box set?
Or does the single correspond to the box set the same way Super Go
corresponded to Super Are? >>
from the Forced Exposure web site (www.fe.org):
- -------------------------------------------
Artist: BOREDOMS
Title: Vision Creation Newsun
Label: WARNER BROS (JAPAN)
Format: CD
Price: $21.00
Catalog Number: WPC6 10032
Three track CD EP that preceded the Vision Creation Newsun full length.
Features these tracks: "Sunsidal Cendencies" (different edit of the 1st track
on the full length), "Moonsidal Cendencies (Moochy Remix)", and a live track
from 11/8/'99. The live track is actually credited to the Uoredoms ("Uoredoms
is same member but no guitar, no bass, only 3 drums, 2 percussions & 8ch open
reel). This is different material from a different date than that found on
the bonus live CD of the limited 2CD version of the full length.
Artist: BOREDOMS
Title: Vision Creation Newsun
Label: WARNER BROS (JAPAN)
Format: 2CD
Price: $90.00
Catalog Number: WPC6 10044
[Restocked and last chance at this version.]Very limited deluxe version of
the new Boredoms album. Consists of: a new album called Vision Creation Newsun
, a 2nd bonus CD of bonus material exclusive to this package, a Boredoms
t-shirt (probably size MED), a special electronic toy emitting toad gurgling
sounds when exposed to airlight (batteries included!), all packaged in a
special box (measuring 24 x 24 x 4.5 cm), with a sticker, etc. The album
features the current line up of: Eye (mix, vox, synth, samples, turntable,
open reel, vocorder, computer, electronics, edits), Yamamotor (guitar, vox),
Hilah (bass, effects, vox), Yoshimi (drums, percussions, Casiotone, vox), ATR
(drums, percussions, electric pad, vox), E-Da (drums, percussions, electric
pad, vox). The 2nd disc features two tracks: "the first tune of the bonus
tracks CD is what we gained from the second number in the original album
which data inside the computer was accidently started running on the first
day of a new year in Mayan callender (7th June '98)." The 2nd track is a 36
minute live extract from Nov. 1998 at the Osaka City Univ. Outdoor Free
Concert. [Those of you would just like to hear the music can relate to the
fact that a "regular" Japanese version will follow and a US version will
probably come out on Birdman in the year 2000]
- --------------------------------------------
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 08:38:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Peter Risser <knucklehead000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: I Buy Spy vs. Spy
Frankly, I never buy an album without listening to it
first. Pretty much ever. Well, maybe used. I've
been far too disappointed with the results most of the
times, even on artists that I previously liked.
Then again, I've been spoiled, working for radio
stations, used record stores and publications, where I
had excellent access to all sorts of music, being able
to listen to all I wanted before I bought.
Currently, I download MP3s from Usenet. I've suddenly
been able to listen to all sorts of albums I've always
wanted to hear like early Pink Floyd, ELP, Ground
Zero, Pigpen, early Genesis, Nuggets vol 1-4, live
Naked City, Grand Guignol, Locus Solus and so on.
There is no way in HELL I would have ever bought any
of these just to listen. Who can afford to invest
eleven bucks (new price - trade in) on the chance you
might like it or not?
So, yeah, I found that most of it I'm not interested
in. Still, Ground Zero's Ground Zero kicks ass, it's
on my list. I found I liked the early PF stuff and
the Nuggets, so those are on my buy list now. And the
pigpen sounds really cool too.
Would I have EVER bought these without hearing first?
No. No matter what people on this list or in jazz
magazines or even friends say, I've got my own weird
subset of tastes, and I have yet to find anyone who
matches up.
And yet, after downloading these albums, I plan to buy
them. Eventually.
The key is, eventually. I don't have the twenty bucks
to lay out for Ground Zero right now. Plus, since I
have most of the tracks on tape, it sorta takes the
edge off needing to own it, ya know? I suppose that's
the price you pay. Still, I'm sure Ground Zero is
happier that I want to own it eventually as opposed to
never.
Not everyone is like me. I have a friend who tapes
albums with no intention to ever buy. His tape
collection is about 200 tapes, well anotated and
documented. He owns, maybe twenty CDs. Still, I've
found that most people, if they really like a tape,
will actually purchase the real deal. If they don't
purchase the real deal, they probably wouldn't have
anyway, if the tape had never existed in the first
place. My guess is that my friend with 200 tapes and
25 CDs would have maybe 35 CDs. But certainly not
425.
I also trade MP3 discs with select people, sharing the
music I've found and getting a glimpse of the music
they've found. Again, there's discs I'll never buy
and discs I've gone right out and purchased.
Esquivel's More of Other Worlds, Other Sounds is top
of my list because I got a chance to hear it there
first. What an album!
In addition, we trade stuff that you can't even buy
anymore, unless you're extremely lucky, or williing to
shell out 125 bucks for vinyl on eBay.
In any case, I know I am breaking the law in some
weird sense or other. But I try to keep my
distribution to a minimum. And I just can't help it.
I can't help sharing the music. Whether it's a radio
show, an internet broadcast, loaning out CDs, or
posting to Usenet, I want to share the joy that I
feel. And I seriously hope that some of that
excitement filters back to the artist eventually.
That, and the insatiable desire to learn and hear as
much music as possible, are my driving forces. (plus,
a bit of the collector in me. :) )
Someday, maybe the studios will understand that and
they'll figure out how to let the music free while
still staying in business.
That would be a good day.
Peter
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:31:52 -0800
From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com>
Subject: the big red mit
Not to be disrespectful for the great bass man greg cohen, but what is
wrong with his left hand? I am sure I am not the only person to take note
of the fact that it is a 1/3 bigger than his other hand, and a bit
discolored.
The masada string trio was completely amazing last night, I had never
gotten into that second disc off circle maker, I sure listen to it a lot
differently now! I found that the string trio was one of the more enjoyable
live experiences I have had in quite some time.
Do a lot of zornlisters know eachother? I alwayd feel like I recognize so
many of the same people at some of these shows.
Anyone going to paraphrase tonight?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:53:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: the big red mit
Jason:
I asked his wife about it (respectfully) a few years ago at FIMAV. It's a
birthmark that has been with him all his life.
No it didn't develop trying to switch from playing mainstream jazz to
Zornytunes.
Ken Waxman
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 10:56:51 +0000
From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: White Noise update
Scotland's experimental music listsings site has just been updated with news
of current and future events and a review of Lol Coxhill.
White Noise
For experimental events in Scotland
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:51:13 +0100
From: patRice <gda@datacomm.ch>
Subject: RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
peter risser wrote:
>>And yet, after downloading these albums, I plan to buy
>>them. Eventually.
this i can understand.
>> Still, I'm sure Ground Zero is
>>happier that I want to own it eventually as opposed to
>>never.
this, i don't know. would have to ask mr. yoshihide.
>>Not everyone is like me. I have a friend who tapes
>>albums with no intention to ever buy. His tape
>>collection is about 200 tapes, well anotated and
>>documented.
this is sthg i can't understand.
this guy wants to listen to the music, get some enjoyment/excitement out
of it, but isn't prepared to help the guys who wrote/recorded the stuff
making a living out of it by paying for the stuff? what kind of business
does he do?
>>In addition, we trade stuff that you can't even buy
>>anymore, unless you're extremely lucky, or williing to
>>shell out 125 bucks for vinyl on eBay.
like i said in my first post; i don't think there's anything wrong with
this, especially if the cd/record you're looking for is no longer
available.
>>In any case, I know I am breaking the law in some
>>weird sense or other. But I try to keep my
>>distribution to a minimum. And I just can't help it.
>>I can't help sharing the music. Whether it's a radio
>>show, an internet broadcast, loaning out CDs, or
>>posting to Usenet, I want to share the joy that I
>>feel. And I seriously hope that some of that
>>excitement filters back to the artist eventually.
isn't the question if by not buying stuff but just recording and
distributing it you might very well put some artists/labels out of
business?
>>Someday, maybe the studios will understand that and
>>they'll figure out how to let the music free while
>>still staying in business.
this i really don't understand. you'd like to have the music, enjoy it,
get excited
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:25:25 GMT
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
>
> >>In any case, I know I am breaking the law in some
> >>weird sense or other. But I try to keep my
> >>distribution to a minimum. And I just can't help it.
> >>I can't help sharing the music. Whether it's a radio
> >>show, an internet broadcast, loaning out CDs, or
> >>posting to Usenet, I want to share the joy that I
> >>feel. And I seriously hope that some of that
> >>excitement filters back to the artist eventually.
>isn't the question if by not buying stuff but just recording and
>distributing it you might very well put some artists/labels out of
>business?
>
The question is going to have to be addressed at some point about why
compact discs are so expensive and what can be done about it without
diminishing the capacities of artists to produce and survive. I don't think
the issue resolves itself quickly into an ethical issue. There need to be
alternatives for those who are unable to make large investments in music but
still want (and need) to partake in the pleasures of music. A solution
becomes apparent in downloadable music off a specific artist's website. The
transaction takes place fairly directly between the artist and the listener,
and if the listener wants to burn one and only one CD from the file, he can.
Music production is rapidly moving in this direction, and the potential
for cutting out the overhead and distributor costs is significant. An
important point is being made here about proliferation as well. By copying
music, one can create new desires in other people that likely will translate
into more sales for the artists in the long term for those who willing/able
to buy. For those who are satisfied simply with taping, the choice becomes
one of whether to do with the material or without it. Mandating or
enforcing IPR restrictions or demanding ethical compliance is not going to
change that fact....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 11:11:04 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: RECORDING STUFF FOR OTHERS
On Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 02:25:25PM +0000, Bill Ashline wrote:
> The question is going to have to be addressed at some point about why
> compact discs are so expensive and what can be done about it without
> diminishing the capacities of artists to produce and survive.
There has been one very good result of the massive difference between
the cost of manufacture and the price of CD's: with the profit margin
that much better, smaller artists have to sell much fewer discs to
break even. This is one of the things behind the boom in reissues of
rare material, and the explosion of smaller-artist CDs.
Of course, once the money gets filtered through the distribution,
publicity, and larceny mechanisms of the major labels, very little gets
back to the artist anyway...
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #818
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