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1999-12-04
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #808
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, December 5 1999 Volume 02 : Number 808
In this issue:
-
scratch orchestra
Re: ikue mori and design
sonic youth 20th century
Re: sonic youth 20th century
derek bailey WENT pop
White Noise Update
Sale/trade list update
Re: Robin Holcomb
Re: hatART sale in Chicago
Re: Julius
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #807
Re: hatART sale in Chicago
Re: Sonic Youth
I buy Spy vs. Spy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:31:04 -0500
From: eric ong <eso200@is5.nyu.edu>
Subject: scratch orchestra
hello. could someone please tell me what the new scratch orchestra 10"
sounds like? thank you, eric.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 01:00:50 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: ikue mori and design
Hugo Linares wrote:
> When is it due to be released the RCA's new Wonder Boy's (Douglas,
> naturally) cd?
The first one for RCA is scheduled for February 8, 2000, and the second (with
Klucevsek, Feldman and Cohen, as in 'Charms of the Night Sky') is currently
scheduled for October 2000. These are US dates - I don't know how that will
translate abroad. Also, Dave's long-delayed fourth and final recording for
Arabesque, with the quartet w/ Potter, Genus and Perowsky - a band that
continues to get better and better IMHO, will also be issued in February 2000.
> D'you know something about the Masada box or was it just marketing buzz?
At this point I know absolutely nothing more than anyone else here (well, MOST
anyone...).
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - nada
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 00:27:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Whit Schonbein <whit@twinearth.wustl.edu>
Subject: sonic youth 20th century
is anyone on the list knoweldgable enough about the composers on the
latest sonic youth release (or a subset thereof) to hazard an opinion as
to whether these are particularly good versions of the compositions
played? the reason i ask is that a friend recently made the argument that
it's basically people doing free improv, and then tacking on the
composer's names in order to 'legitimatize' it in some way. i suppose the
reciprical argument is that the compositions themselves are such that to
play them is to do nothing more than do free improv (see, for example, the
images of the scores for, in particular, the ono, tenney, and kosugi on
the syr website
(http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/syr4/syr4frameset.html). They
basically leave it up to the performer - i might as well say a
conversation with my mother is an instance of '+-'), leading one to
question what naming the 'composer' adds to the performance at all.
i have my own responses to this line of argument, but i was just curious
as to what the members of the list might have to say. i have a feeling
this sort of debate has been around a while, and if so, i'd much
appreciate a history lesson...
cheers, whit
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 02:37:52 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: sonic youth 20th century
From what I can tell, the performances are pretty accurate, and good.
Those who hear them as pure free improv tacked on to the scores
either haven't listened closely or haven't understood the scores.
(I do a lot of stuff with loosely defined scores outside of standard
notation, so i hear this a lot.)
I'm not familiar enough with the Wolff scores to say anything valid
there.
It's hard to say whether what we hear in the Kosugi is accurate,
since we don't know (and it's hard to tell by listening) which
parameters were chosen to be affected by the + and - signs. (This
is a complaint I have with a lot of this kind of music -- I like the
organising principles of a piece to be discernable by listening to
it, but that's not a common opinion.) It's more a question of how
they went about doing it.
The Yoko Ono recording seems to reflect the score, though it's
hard to tell (even in the finest performance) how one might tell
that each of the screams refers to a different text line. But the
(surprisingly gentle) screams seem to be a good interpretation.
I've been fortunate to see the full score to the Oliveros piece,
and there, again, it looks like they may have followed it.
The Maciunas seems accurate, and the Slonimsky, being fully notated,
I think, would probably be.
The Tenney performance fits his score, consisting of a gradual
swelling and a dying away.
I can hear the Reich as a valid performance, and certainly one
that wouldn't come about without the score. I envision a performance
of consisting of a single instance of the swinging->stasis process,
whereas they seem to do it several times, but I can live with that.
I don't know the details of Cage's "Six", but it seems valid.
Within some differences of opinion I have of how to perform Cage's
"Four^6", they seem to do it well. I have my qualms about having
a pair of simultaneous performances of it, since the particular
sparcity of the score seems just right (but on the other hand, it
looks like the performance I'm going to be in in Baltimore next
weekend will be layered with other pieces (possibly "Radio Music")
I can't kvetch much).
I do have a disagreement with how William Winant plays in the work:
where as the score calls for sounds with fixed characteristics, he
frequently plays looping note sequences, which I don't hear as
valid. On the other hand, he did the same thing in the premiere of
the work, in which Cage himself performed, so his interpretation
may be more "from the horse's mouth", as it were. (I tend to be
cranky about keeping to literal interpretations of scores, but then
I'm frequently accused of being a musical Pharisee, a label I wear
with ancestral pride :-]).
So, on the whole, I'd say that yes, the performances are valid
interpretations of the scores, and probably would not have happened
without the scores. So the musicians appear to be doing what they'd
said they'd do, and doing it well.
I don't know if it will turn on many Sonic Youth fans to this music
(though I really should post to alt.music.sonic-youth about our
upcoming Four^6 performance), but it's having some of a reverse
effect -- not being familiar with the band before, I've been listening
to their other stuff since getting this, and liking it.
- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 23:30:23 +0100
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <stefan.annik@planetinternet.be>
Subject: derek bailey WENT pop
Hi
Just listening for the first time to Joseph Holbrooke trio "rehearsel 65" on
the incus label.
What did surprise me: this is a unique document that features a straigt jazz
guitar style from derek bailey. No harsh fingerpicking, no sustained notes,
no just great melodic playing.
Anyway, the trio on this cd covers a john coltrane tune, but have great fun
doing this. For example, the music doesn't start immediately. No at the
beginning they search for the perfect start to play this tune.
As a bonus, the cd is also a cd-rom that features some texts and some
pictures (although untill now, I couldn't see them on my computer)
Once again, Derek Bailey prooved once again to me that his definitely one of
the best jazz musicians around here.
As allways, the cheapest way to order this cd, is to order it from karen
brookman from incus records:
INCUS RECORDS KAREN
E-mail Address(es):
113426.2337@compuserve.com
I don't know it by heart, but i believe that i paid 9 pounds for it
(including p&p) to belgium
Best wishes
Stefan Verstraeten
stefan.annik@planetinternet.be
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 14:04:19 +0000
From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: White Noise Update
For info White Noise, Scotland's listings site for all non mainstream
musical endeavour has just been updated for December. URL below.
Scott
White Noise
For experimental events in Scotland
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 14:43:57 +0000
From: "Scott" <scott@burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Sale/trade list update
I have just updated my sale trade list with items by John Zorn, the Grassy
Knoll, Ravi Shankar and others. Check it out at:
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk/list.html
Scott
White Noise
For experimental events in Scotland
http://www.burntweeny.freeserve.co.uk
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:03:44 -0800
From: Tony Reif <treif@songlines.com>
Subject: Re: Robin Holcomb
Well, there's Nick Drake. In fact Robin was here in Vancouver two weeks ago
for a Drake tribute concert I put on. She sang 3 of her own songs and 4 of
Nick's (two in collaboration with Vancouver singer-songwriter Veda Hille,
another who I'd add to your shortlist). Both Drake and Hille in very
different ways often have a jazzy sense about them without at all being
jazz singers (and Veda is a very good pianist with a slightly Monkish
quality about her playing).
Did anyone see the Hal Wilner Harry Smith tribute extravaganza in London
and New York? Robin took part in that too.
For more info on Nick check out the Nick Drake Files,
www.algonet.se/~iguana/DRAKE.
Tony
>
>As attractive as I find this approach to song form, I'm always very
>leery about taking chances in the store with artists who seem to be
>exploring similar territory, that of the ultra-personal,
>melancholy-though-not-despondent folk-oriented song form (!). Aside from
>Holcomb, I'm thinking of things like the first Roches album, Julie
>Tippett's "Sunset Glow", Fahey's work, perhaps even the Incredible
>String Band's "Changing Horses" etc. The chances for disappointment
>(ie, a tinge of striving for radio play, an exaggerated sense of
>self-importance, etc.) seem too high. Any recommendations on this
>hazily-defined genre would be appreciated.
>
>Brian Olewnick
>
>-
Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 13:16:11 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: hatART sale in Chicago
At 01:25 PM 12/4/99 -0600, benjamin elliot axelrad wrote:
>New York School
>
>I'm sure that all of these are easily worth $5, but are there any
>essentials listed above?
Thie is a nice compilation of Cage/Feldman/Brown/Wolff chamber works.
Roger Sutherland listed this as an essential CD in his discography in his
book New Perspectives in Music.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing. There is more
than one way to conquer a country.
- -- Raymond Chandler
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 14:52:51 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Julius
That's probably the saxophone "opera" long tongues, but it had nothibg to
do with him being shown the door by the rest of the group.
Ken Waxman
On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Craig Matsumoto wrote:
>
> I vaguely, vaguely remember something about Julius leaving the group to
> work on an opera ... no idea whatever happened to that work, or if he
> finished it, or if i'm just making the whole thing up...
- -
------------------------------
Date: 05 Dec 1999 12:47:59 PST
From: Ryan.J.McKay@directory.reed.edu (Ryan J. McKay)
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #807
- --- You wrote:
I don't have them, but i think i can speak for the list, when i ask =
that=20
perhaps you could post your paper when you finish it..
- --- end of quote ---
Since it will be around 2000 words, that would be a bit =
unpractical; but I will make it available as an attachment to those =
who want to read it. I'm a little embarassed, being fairly new to =
the work of John Zorn, and still having to do an in depth analysis =
of his work in a post-modern context. =20
- --ryan
P.S. If anyone on this list is from the S.F. area, the Thinking =
Fellers Union Local 282 are playing on December 18th at Bottom of =
the Hill. I'm driving 800 miles and getting a fake id just for =
this show...believe me they are worth it.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 16:31:40 -0500
From: "Rick Lopez" <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: hatART sale in Chicago
>In a message dated 12/4/99 2:26:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>beaxelra@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>
><< At the Jazz Record Mart (444 N. Wabash) they are selling lots of hatARTs
> for $5 each! >>
>
>Gave 'em a call on their toll-free line (800-684-3480), and they said that
>they would do mail-order with these discs too, though the guy I talked to had
>no list of CDs that he could immediately send
The list:
all are $4.99 and are in limited supply
Altena Ens-Code #6094
Altena, Maarten-Cities & Streets #6082
Ensemble-Quotl #6029
Octet-Rif #6056
Ray Anderson, Han Bennik, Christian Doran-Azurety #6155
Blum-62 Mesostics:Cage #6095
Atlas Eclipticales: Cage #6111
Fontana Mix: Cage #6125
Four Systems #6147
Rational Melodies 1982 #6133
/Schleiermacher/Will-New York School Vol.2 #6146
/Schleiermacher-flute & Piano Works #6114
/Uitti/Vigeland-New York School #6101
/Vigeland-for Christian Wolf #61202
-for Philip Guston #61042
/Vigeland/Williams-Crippled Symmetry #60802
Anthony Braxton-Open Aspects #6106
Dave Burrell-Windward Passages #6138
Dahinden/Kleeb/Polisoidi-For Ruth Crawford #6156
Distel-Reise #6001
Stazione #6060
Graewe/Minton-Songs & Variations #6028
Habarigani-S/T #6007
Two #6064
Houser-Pensieri Bianchi #6067
Trommel/Welle #6017
/Grieder-Mirror #6037
/Oliveros/Newton-Zwei #6010
Gerry Hemingway-Down to the Wire #6121
Isherwood/Pid/Sausy-Voxnova #6148
Ives Ensemble-Ten: Cage #6159
Andre Jaume-L'oc #6058
Hans Kennel-Mytha #6110
Mythohorns 2 #6151
Kleeb/Polisoidis-Extension 1979/80 #6131
Franz Koglmann-Cantos I-IV #6123
Schlaf Schlemmer schlaf Magrit #6108
/Lee Konitz-We Thought About Duke #6163
Steve Lacy-Clangs #6116
Remains #6102
Way (2 CDs-$9.99) #6152
Oliver Lake-Zaki #6113
Urs Leimgruber-Statement of Antirider #6013
/Fritz Hauser-L;enigmatique #6091
/Roidinger-Ungleich #6049
Jimmy Lyons/Sunny Murray-Jump Up #6139
Joe McPhee-Oleo & a Future Tetro9spective #6097
Myra Melford Trio-Alive in the House of Saints #6136
Michihiro/Frisell/Frith-Rodan #6015
Persson/Schleiermacher-Winter Music/Atlas: Cage #6141
Scheiermacher-Works for Piano 2 #6143
Bad Boys! #6144
Soviet Avant Garde #6157
Schneider/De Saram-Compositions 2: Ustvolskaya #6130
Schroeder-Piano Ste 9/10 #6006
Ton Art-Mal Vu.Mal Dit #6088
Zu #6034
Van Zutphen/Panonishes-fifty eight 1992: Cage #6135
Viena Art Orchestra-Concerto Piccolo #6038
Notion in Perpetual Motion #6096
Mike Westbrook-Zurich Live 1986 -(2 CDs-$9.99) #6152
To purchase the CD's and have them shipped I would need:
- -full name and street address (we ship UPS)
- -daytime phone number
- -form of payment...we accept Visa, MC, Am.Express, Discover, checks, money
orders
- -Illinois residents pay 8.75% sales tax
shipping in the US is 4.50 for 1 to 4 items.
5.50 for 5 or more.
For orders to Canada add 1 dollar to the above
For overseas orders: add 4 dollars to the above.
Our address is:
Jazz Record Mart
444 N. Wabash
Chicago,IL 60611
Thanks for your inquiry!
Steve Dawson
Mail Order Dept, Jazz Record Mart
1 (800) 684-3480
Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, William Parker, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp,
David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman Discographies--Samuel Beckett
Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc.,
at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k
UPDATE August 20, 1999:
vids, a few CDs, baseball books, a few Cadence back issues, a few more
CDs...
***Very Various For Sale:
***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 16:50:54 EST
From: Nervenet@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sonic Youth
Peter wrote:
<<Not that this means anything, but I just don't see
John Cage suddenly becoming a household word because
Sonic Youth happened to notice them.>>
I don't think that "happened to notice them" is a fair assessment of how
Sonic Youth's interest in Cage came about. Just because they play (primarily)
rock music doesn't mean that they have no business associating with other
forms. The whole band has a longstanding commitment to the avant-garde dating
back to the guitarists' stint in Glenn Branca's guitar orchestras (think of
him what you may, he's hardly in the pop mainstream) and most likely long
before that - Thurston Moore has said in interview that Kim Gordon turned him
on to Albert Ayler, among others, before the band even had a record out.
Their particular associations with Cage, Reich, Cardew, etc. aren't
documented to my knowledge (and don't need to be, either), but I hardly think
that they just suddenly thought "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to seek out a bunch
of obscure avant-garde works and put them out on our own indie label?" As you
said elsewhere, Sonic Youth is arcane enough to most people that they're
unlikely to thrust even more outside composers into the public eye. Now if
you could convince Celine Dion that it was a worthwhile project, you'd be in
business.
and Ben wrote
<<But "John Cage" is already a household name!>>
Maybe in your household, but not in most. Go somewhere other than a record
store and ask ten people at random if they've heard of Cage. I would be
surprised if you got even one yes most of the time. As for Sonic Youth, you'd
do a little better, but not a lot.
And while we're on the Sonic Youth topic, I'll weigh in with my faves, too -
Sister and Daydream Nation are the killers of the early stuff - Evol and Bad
Moon rising are a little dry for my tastes and i don't like the first two at
all. Goo is hookier with some excellent cuts and it's what initially got me
into them, but it's not as strong an album overall. Dirty sounds like
middlewight stuff, but I've never really given it a full-attention listen.
But I really love the recent projects - Experimental Jet Set etc., Washing
Machine and A Thousand Leaves are just great, adult music. As for the SYR
series, it's interesting, but separate from the main thrust of their music,
IMO. I do appreciate the newest one more than the others, but I consider all
of them to be sidework. Interesting sidework, yes, but sidework nonetheless.
I don't listen to Sonic Youth to hear John Cage, I listen to Sonic Youth to
hear Sonic Youth. But I do like the Reich piece and the James Tenney piece.
Patrick Brown
Nervenet@aol.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Dec 1999 18:02:04 -0500
From: Diego Gruber <dgruber@uio.satnet.net>
Subject: I buy Spy vs. Spy
Hi people,
I need someone's help here, I live in Ecuador where it is almost
impossible to get any recording by Zorn (not to mention other artists
discussed on this list). So if someone would be kind enough to give me a
hand: i'm looking for a copy of Spy vs. Spy, if someone has a used one
in good condition and wants to get rid of it, or could get me a new one,
i'm willing to prepay for the cd and postage.
Thanks in advance,
Diego
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #808
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