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Zorn List Digest       Friday, November 26 1999       Volume 02 : Number 799



In this issue:
-
       Re: PSF/DIW/etc.
       SY
       Re: SY
       re: RADICAL jewish culture.... no way
       Tr: RADICAL jewish culture.... no way
       Judy Dunaway/DECEMBER 11
       Re: some corrections (radical jewish culture)
       please contact me
       Judy Dunaway -- correction
       RE: some corrections (radical jewish culture)
       Re: sonic youth 20th century
       Paul Bley autobiography

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:30:30 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: PSF/DIW/etc.

In a message dated 11/25/99 10:55:57 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Along with the TMT double-disc, the best recording of
Kosugi's music readily available on CD is 'Violin Solo
1980 NYC' on P-Vine. A bizarre combination of Albert
Ayler's primitive, exaggerated expression and Derek
Bailey-style phrasing, all played on violin. I think
it's pretty breathtaking stuff. >>

Tom's a bigger fan of Kosugi's solo work than myself. I find both the P-Vine
CD and the solo one on Lovely a bit on the dry side, although, to be fair,
I've only heard the P-Vine one once. a few more Kosugi-related notes:

1) another great CD, although it's probably impossible to find now, is the
Group Ongaku (HEAR sound art library), in which Kosugi and friends anticipate
AMM's abstract collective style with recordings made in '60 and '61. Yasunao
Tone, another Fluxus member, who has a CD on Tzadik, is also a member of this
collective.

2) Kosugi performs on a lot of the new Sonic Youth double CD of classical
pieces which was briefly discussed here the other day.

3) Kosugi is also the musical director for Merce Cunningham's dance company.
both he and Jim O'Rourke play at every (or almost every) Cunningham
performance, along with one or two additional musicians.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 99 10:43:08 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: SY

Caleb asks:
Sonic Youth has a new 2cd set of 20th century classical works (Cage, Wolff,
Reich, etc.) which is available from most of the usual sources.  I'm
unfamiliar with their music, but I had always placed them in some vague pop
landscape.  Can anyone provide any background on the group, how this album
fits with the rest of their output, and perhaps even a review of the album?

Gawd, it seems like I always get myself in trouble with these things. That's OK,
it was kinda fun having everybody disagree with me about Arto.

SY were kinda my link to free music when I was in college -- especially when
"Daydream Nation" came out back around 87. I think of them as essentially a pop
band as well, but that shouldn't take away from the individual members'
abilities. Thurston and Lee were playing together in Glenn Branca's guitar
orchestras before SY started, and their "freer" side projects are extensive.
(Zorn, William Hooker, Susie Ibarra, Andrea Parkins, David Watson are the first
ones that pop to mind.) They also do a lot to promote free music. Milford Graves
and Masonna opened for them last year, they showed home-movie tour footage
including Haino performance at Tonic, etc.

The band is stretching out, however, and learning some interesting ways to
bridle the noise assault of their early stuff. The three self produced eps
they've already put out on their label (SY1, 2, 3, with similar cover designs as
the new one) are really great and not at all pop. I was leary at first, but when
I finally got around to them I was very surprised. They are definitely worth
picking up if you're interested in them but not the song-oriented stuff, and I
think sell for around $10 ea. I haven't heard the new one yet.

As for the pop band, the best records for my money are Evol, Sister and Daydream
Nation, which came out in succession in the 80s. These are the best examples of
strong songwriting dissolving into extended washes. In the 90s, some of their
records (like Dirty and Goo) started focusing too much on the songs over the
jams, and suffered for it. The early stuff (Sonic Death, Confusion is Sex) is
quite rough and noisy. Good, but not great.

I've read one review of the new disc, saying it was really great and that it was
a shame that they're not on a major label. I suspect a lot of people might be
confused about the SY label, but I don't think I am. They have a pretty
sweetheart deal with Geffen, where they are free to experiment and release stuff
even with the SY name outside of their contract with Geffen. It seems they
reserve Geffen for the songy stuff, and use their label for more experimental
stuff. I'm sure I don't need to say 'correct me if I'm wrong.'

There's also a SY instrumental release called "Silver" which is all feedback
loops. Its penchant-revealing, but unessential.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 10:51:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SY

In a message dated 11/26/99 10:43:42 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< As for the pop band, the best records for my money are Evol, Sister and
Daydream

Nation, which came out in succession in the 80s. >>

one interesting thing about Sonic Youth is that, more than any other band
that I'm aware of, everyone seems to have different favorite records. mine
are Dirty and Washing Machine, where I think their earlier experiments start
to really come to fruition. I think that the epic song The Diamond Sea on
Washing Machine is the best thing they've ever done. but as always, your
mileage may vary...

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 99 11:15:16 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: RADICAL jewish culture.... no way

I'm not going to presume too many opinions here about orthodoxy and what it
means, since I'm hardly versed in the subject. But I really want to thank Stefan
for the post. It shows an interesting and I think important aspect of JZ's work
of the past five years.

Whatever Zorn's intentions (marketing ploy, uninformed romanticization, or more
simply the personal definitions I believe he is attempting), he must realize, he
certainly realizes, that identifying himself so closely with Jewish culture, and
labeling it "radical" opens himself up to assumption, insults and ostracization.
From what I know about Zorn, I doubt he cares. And from what I've seen at
concerts -- especially when it's something like chamber Masada or at a venue
like Merkin Hall in NYC -- he's bringing in a new audience as well. And in
general, his audience has clearly grown. But I've also met more than one person
recently into "the scene" who say they don't like "that Jewish stuff" that he
does, which always feels a little anti-Semetic in tone to me (why not just "that
stuff"?). And while I haven't seen grafitti at Tonic of the Knit about his
Jewishness per se, one has to wonder why people bother to bash him on bathroom
stalls.

All of that just means that when someone recognizes through art a certain aspect
of the world, they are at risk of being considered an advocate, or even a
zealot. I'm sure jazz musicians who connect themselves to African cultures have
suffered the same. And right-thinking folks (if you don't mind the phrase) could
easily make some unfortunate and irrelevant arguments against that sort of
cultural identification as well. Not that I've heard it said, and not that
"Africa" is a distinct single tradition the way Orthodox Jewdaism is, but
someone could criticize American jazz players who use African names/instruments/
fabrics, saying that they don't know what they're talking about, and these are
cultures that practice slavery and female genital mutilation and are
misogynistic and violent, etc. It's dangerous to assume that an artist who
dresses a certain way or uses words from a certain language is therby advocating
all of the practices of that culture. But its also easy to understand where
someone from or with experience in those cultures could be made to feel
uncomfortable.

My real point, though, is that I'm glad to be on this list, where people get
beyond fandom and feel as if they can raise the sort of questions that Stefan
did. The world is so interesting.

kg



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 17:25:58 +0100
From: "in.out" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tr: RADICAL jewish culture.... no way

i think that religion and culture are two differents things, even if there
is this heavy link of being jewish.
And what zorn want to show is culture.
And moreover any form of extremism is unbearable, it can be in religion:
jewish, catholics, muslim etc....., it can be in everything
REMEMBER JEWISH CULTURE IS NOT ORTHODOXY
JEWISH CULTURE IS THE IDENTITY, the identity of beeing jewish.

delphine



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 99 11:20:18 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Judy Dunaway/DECEMBER 11

Forwarded for JD, who has really developed her playing. I really enjoyed her
performance when we had her at Neues Kaberett at the Brecht Forum in September.

kg


JUDY DUNAWAY
balloons
&
DAN EVANS FARKAS
electronics

Saturday, December 11, 1999
8pm

Experimental Intermedia
224 Centre Street
New York, NY
phone: [phone]

Judy Dunaway's compositions examine balloons in a variety of sound and
visual contexts.  This concert will feature the NYC Premiere of Duet for
Jumbo Balloons for 5 foot diameter balloons, and Stripes which features
video projections by Chris Jonas, as well as other solo works.  Dan
Evans-Farkas manipulates low-tech electronics to create sonic events.
Lightbulbs, talking dolls, electronic toys, and old LPs are some of the
source materials for his improvisatory solo creations.  Dunaway and
Evans-Farkas will close the evening with a duet featuring Dunaway's
balloons and vibrators processed through Evans-Farkas' maze of electronic
intestines.

Judy Dunaway's compositions and improvisations for balloons have been
presented over the past nine years at numerous concerts throughout the U.S.
and Europe.  Performances in New York City include Lincoln Center
Out-of-Doors, The Swiss Institute, Performance Space 122, The Knitting
Factory, The Kitchen, Downtown Arts Festival, La Mama Galleria, Gowanus
Arts Exchange, Lotus Music and Dance Center, Roulette, Hear Theater, and
The Alternative Museum.  Composers Recordings, Inc. (CRI) released a full
CD of her works for balloons in 1998.  She has received grants from Meet
the Composer, the Kalliste Foundation, and National Endowment for the Arts,
and artist-residencies from Harvestworks, Inc. (NYC) and Extrapool (The
Netherlands).

Dan Evans-Farkas is a music and sound editor who has worked on films by
Sidney Lumet, Mike Nichols, Jim Jarmusch, the Coen Brothers, and others.
As an electronic composer he has appeared at Roulette, the Kitchen, the
Staten Island Electronic Music Festival, the International FLEA Festival
and many other venues.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 05:25:05 +0100
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: some corrections (radical jewish culture)

>From: "john rust" <[e-mail]>
>Wow, you look like a specialist in the dark side of the jewish life of
>Antwerpen, aren't you?..

What is the point of saying this the way it is written here. I know Antwerp
very well (it is the city where I have been living for quite some years), so
yes, i can say that I know Antwerp very well. But giving the impression that
I am a very special person who can show people really dark spaces.......
man, wake up, EVERYBODY who is well known here in Antwerp knows of wich
places I am talking about.

>You know, I had to deal a lot with the russian anti-semits when I lived
>there for many years and I just hated their point that not ALL the jews are
>bad, just some of them.
Wow, this really hurt, giving the impression that I am anti-semit. Once
again, as stated, I am not anti-anything. I just disagree with some
lifestyle. And off course, I still go out with my friends (although, they
know what my opinion is about it). But hey, I'll pass the remark you just
said about me to them, but believe me, they will defintely look strange.
No seriously, what you just wrote hit me very hard.

>From: patRice <[e-mail]>
>>>when john zorn talks about radical jewish culture, he talks about the
>>>renaissance, of realising once again that jews must realise what a
beautiful
>>>culture they have.
>i never got the impression that that was his main motivation.


Yes, a clear statement, but why do write a few lines later...

>I think zorn only wanted to make the jewish people around him aware of
>their culture, get them back into it

>>>-when elliot sharp came to belgium,
>>> He personally used the words 'i
>>>myself believe that it is a marketing trick from mister zorn'.
>well, he still doesn't mind the marketing, does he? if he felt it was a
>bad thing he could have simply refused to have stuff put out on tzadik.
>i'm sure he felt okay when he got his pay cheque!?


yes you definitely got a point here, but the impression I had was that he
liked the idea of a release serie based on jewish culture, but had some
thoughts concerning this 'radical' element and connections that could me
made.

>>>The counsel of the orthodox antwerp
>>>jewish community stated very clearly that zorn is DEFINITELY NOT JEWISH
>>>CULTURE. Funny to hear these words from a high respected (even worldwide)
>>>community that zorn is a fan of.
>who gives a fuck??? do i care about what someone like that says?

No, why should you indeed. Only that a member of this counsil mentioned that
a question was raised if it could be possible that zorn and masada could
play at the temple. The answer was no, so perhaps now zorn can shout out I
don't give a fuck, but i don't know how he really felt when he got the
answer back from the counsil.

Anyway, as a last remark, let me say some things
- -i am not a nazi. I have some great orthodox jewish friends, whose
friendship i can't be without. It gives me a great insight in how other
people live.
- -i don't want to claim the right to judge on orthodox jewish lifestyle. I
just have an opinion on it, and likes to discuss it with orthodox friends.
Do they agree, most of them don't, but the important thing is that we speak
very openly about it and learn from eachother
- -i still believe that zorn is a very good musician, but sometimes disagree
with his point of view. I personally think that one should make a difference
between the music and his composer.

Best wishes, yes also you john rust, but please, please never write such
things about me once again. I am defintely not anti-semit, once again, do
not ever write this again please.

Peace

stefan verstraeten


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 11:48:16 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: please contact me

please pardon the personal post:

could Marcin Witkowski please contact me. i'm having trouble with your email
address. thanks.

[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 99 13:09:47 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Judy Dunaway -- correction

Sorry -- I just heard from Judy that the concert at Experimental Intermedia will
be at 9 p.m., not 8.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 16:34:58 -0300
From: Linares Hugo <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: some corrections (radical jewish culture)

stefan verstraeten wrote:

> Anyway, as a last remark, let me say some things
> -i am not a nazi. I have some great orthodox jewish friends, whose
> friendship i can't be without. It gives me a great insight in how other
> people live.
>

> things about me once again. I am defintely not anti-semit, once again, do
> not ever write this again please.
>
    It's clear that you admit you're definitely anti-semitic, and I do
believe what you say, but let me tell you that "having Jewish friends" is
not a strong enough argument to support your anti-semitic position. You can
be anti-Arab/Latin/Chinese or whatever as simultaneously you can have
friends from those cultural condition, can't you?.

    It's evident you're inclined to judge severely those orthodox
pratices, more precisely Orthodox Judaism, but I think the best practice is:
"live and let live"

    Just another opinion

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 14:13:26 -0600 (CST)
From: Charles Gillett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sonic youth 20th century

On Wed, Nov 24, 1999 at 03:54:58PM -0500, Caleb T. Deupree wrote:
> Sonic Youth has a new 2cd set of 20th century classical works (Cage,
> Wolff, Reich, etc.) which is available from most of the usual
> sources.  I'm unfamiliar with their music, but I had always placed them
> in some vague pop landscape.  Can anyone provide any background on the
> group, how this album fits with the rest of their output, and perhaps
> even a review of the album?

   The only strong connection I can make is that Thurston Moore and
Lee Ranaldo (the guitarists) have played in Glenn Branca's ensembles.
I've never gotten into Sonic Youth, but since Thurston Moore (along
with Byron Coley of Forced Exposure) has been the tastemaker of the
indie scene for the better part of 20 years now and thus has had his
mitts in almost everything, I couldn't have avoided them completely.

   William Winant was apparently quite instrumental in the realization
of this album (choosing the pieces and helping with the interpretation),
and Christian Wolff and Takehisa Kosugi performed as well.  More info,
and the repeated misspelling of "Winant," can be found at:

http://www.smellslikerecords.com/syr/syr4/syr4frameset.html

   Disc one features a video of their performance of George Maciunas's
Piano Piece #13, which I'm sure my computer will not allow me to see.
I'm so sure, I haven't even bothered trying.


- -- Charles


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 15:45:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Paul Bley autobiography

Just bought and read (I'm a very fast reader) Stopping Time: Paul Bley and
the Transformation of Jazz.

It's a very interesting book, well-worth exploring by anyone interested
in jazz/electronics/new music. Mostly autobiographical and illuminated
with Bley's thoughts about improvisation, written music, synthesizers,
the recording studio, running a record label, vmaking ideos,  seizing the
moment etc. etc..

It also includes tales illuminating the keyboardist's interaction
with folks like Mingus, Ornette, Sun Ra, Bill Dixon, Rosewell Rudd,
George Rusell, Jaco Pastorius, Jimmy Giuffre,Sonny Rollins, Sunny Murray
etc.etc. and more etc.

It also devotes some time to his three wives who are important musical
figures in their own rights : Carla Bley, Annette
Peacock and Carol Gross. And it has a clutch of vintage photos (ever seen
Bley "conducting" a Mingus group?)

The book is written with David Lee and published by Vehicule Press in Canada.

In fairness I should say that it does have some drawbacks, though. The
chronology sometimes gets a little muddled, some antecdotes often trail
off rather than finish and it does call for some knowledge of the jazz
scene in general.

Oh, and I've only so-far found two serious typos (hey, I'm a professional
editor, after all -- not of this book, though).

Now we need the definitive book on European avant garde jazz.

Ken Waxman




- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #799
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