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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, October 19 1999       Volume 02 : Number 777



In this issue:
-
       Re: RUINS in SF this Sunday!
       Re: dave douglas mp3s
       West coast masada
       Naked City Hamburg '88
       Re: Naked City Hamburg '88
       Re: West coast masada
       Re: Naked City Hamburg '88
       Re: Cobra in Chicago!
       Re: Naked City Hamburg '88
       Re: Kind Of Blue
       T.sugimoto
       Re: T.sugimoto
       Zorn Ensemble European tournee ?
       Downtown NY CD's for Sale
       Re: RUINS in SF this Sunday!
       Re: T.sugimoto
       Experimental segregation
       Re: Experimental segregation
       RE: RUINS in SF this Sunday!
       Re: Friedlander/Hole
       Re: Experimental segregation

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:29:22 -0500
From: King Wilson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RUINS in SF this Sunday!

>oh man!! i SO wanted to go to that. but me. i'm in
>wisconsin. and i've got school and work. SUX!
>
>now all the californians are gonna rant and rave about
>how kool it was, and i will kick myself for living in
>wisconsin and having responsibilities.
>

>------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 2nd JAPANESE NEW MUSIC FESTIVAL
>>
>> The Japanese New Music Festival is back from its
>> European Tour
>> in '97 to bring an even more powerful performance.
>> The three
>> musicians will now perform in an overwhelming five
>> different
>> projects.
>>
>> Sunday, October 17, 1999, 9 pm
>> $7 cover, all ages
>> Club Cocodrie
>> 1024 Kearny St (near Broadway)
>> San Francisco, CA 94133
>> [phone]


  I don't know the exact date, but I believe this festival has a Chicago
date, at the Fireside Bowl, in the next month or so.  I know Ruins are
playing here soon, in any case.

  That's a hellava lot closer to Wisconsin.......














- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:54:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dave douglas mp3s

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:55:46 -0500
> From: Diego Gruber <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: oh yeah i should tell u where its posted
>
> I don't have access to newsgroups so if someone is willing to send me
> these mp3s (or at least one or two) by mail (to [e-mail]),
> or post them on a website, i'd greatly appreciate it. if you're willing
> to send them by mail please contact me first (maybe too many generous
> ppl would send me Mbs of info twice or more, just to avoid that).

If someone can send them my way via email, i'll stick them on my website
for everyone's enjoyment.

whit
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:00:01 +0200
From: AnneJan van Aperloo <[e-mail]>
Subject: West coast masada

Hi,

My first Masada concert I saw was the one with Dougie Bowe (??) on clarine
in Cologne back in '94. Was this an incidental concert or did he actualy
tour with the clarinet line up. If so.........are there any recordings ??


AnneJan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:01:11 +0200
From: AnneJan van Aperloo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naked City Hamburg '88

Hi,

Back in '89 (february) I heard a complete Naked City show on German radio.
I wasn't in to zorn those days so I didn't record it. As far as I
remembered it was a gig at the Hamburg Jazz festival '88, but I can't find
it in any traders list. Do I remember it wrong???? did they broadcast
another concert then. Can any of the german readers help me out on this ?

AnneJan

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:58:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Naked City Hamburg '88

In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Back in '89 (february) I heard a complete Naked City show on German radio.
>  I wasn't in to zorn those days so I didn't record it. As far as I
>  remembered it was a gig at the Hamburg Jazz festival '88, but I can't find
>  it in any traders list. Do I remember it wrong???? did they broadcast
>  another concert then. Can any of the german readers help me out on this ?

There are quite a few radio broadcast tapes of Naked City out there, although
ive never seen one from hamburg 1988.  They toured Germany around November of
1988 and I know of several from other cities around that time.  If you see
hamburg May 3rd 1992 on a traders list, grab it!!

- -jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:59:51 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: West coast masada

In a message dated 10/18/1999 1:51:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> My first Masada concert I saw was the one with Dougie Bowe (??) on clarine
>  in Cologne back in '94. Was this an incidental concert or did he actualy
>  tour with the clarinet line up. If so.........are there any recordings ??

It was Dougie Bowne on drums, and Ben Goldberg on Clarinet.  I think they did
one tour with that lineup.

- -Jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:44:17 -0700
From: "wetboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City Hamburg '88

recently a concert from berlin in 1998 (or so it was listed) was posted in a
newsgroup. i only managed 2 get 1 track, as the rest came up incomplete.
maybe it was hamburg and the original poster got the city wrong. sound
quality is tremendous. the track is about 20 min long. they play inside
straight and taxi driver. as zorn says about inside straight, "bill played
the fuckin shit outta that tune"

yes, frisell's playing really was THAT good


- -----Original Message-----
From: AnneJan van Aperloo <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, October 18, 1999 10:50 AM
Subject: Naked City Hamburg '88


>Hi,
>
>Back in '89 (february) I heard a complete Naked City show on German radio.
>I wasn't in to zorn those days so I didn't record it. As far as I
>remembered it was a gig at the Hamburg Jazz festival '88, but I can't find
>it in any traders list. Do I remember it wrong???? did they broadcast
>another concert then. Can any of the german readers help me out on this ?
>
>AnneJan
>
>-
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:11:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: benjamin elliot axelrad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cobra in Chicago!

What time?



On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

> On Sunday (10/24/99)  a group of students at DePaul's School of Music will be
> playing the famous Zorn game piece Cobra.   Fred Lomberg-Holm will be playing
> and possibly Ken Vandermark (if he is in town).  The concert is free and all
> are welcome to come.  The conert is in the Music Builing at DePaul's Lincoln
> Park Campus located on the corner of Belmont and Halsted.  You don't need to
> obey the sign about facilty parking only since it is a weekend.  Hope you
> enjoy.
>
>
>                                             Aaron Solomon
>
> -
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:15:39 CEST
From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City Hamburg '88

>From: AnneJan van Aperloo <[e-mail]>
>
>Hi,
>
>Back in '89 (february) I heard a complete Naked City show on German radio.
>I wasn't in to zorn those days so I didn't record it. As far as I
>remembered it was a gig at the Hamburg Jazz festival '88, but I can't find
>it in any traders list. Do I remember it wrong???? did they broadcast
>another concert then. Can any of the german readers help me out on this ?
>

I think it was the Berlin Jazzfest in November ┤89 (Laurie Anderson on the
same evening). The festival is usually broadcasted at different radio
stations. I never heard of a performance in Hamburg.

>My first Masada concert I saw was the one with Dougie Bowe (??) on clarine
>in Cologne back in '94. Was this an incidental concert or did he actualy
>tour with the clarinet line up. If so.........are there any recordings ??

>AnneJan
>-


In November ┤94 Masada played in Mainz with the Lineup Zorn, Douglas, Cohen,
Wollesen. The drummer Dougie Bowne on clarinet? Is this possible?

Andreas Dietz

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:42:10 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kind Of Blue

As no-one's picked up on this. I'll have a go: I don't have a copy of
the original vinyl issue, but as I understand, side two has always
begun with All Blues and always ended with Flamenco Sketches.  The
original liner notes, I believe, were the problem: either the track
listing or the discussion suggested that the sequence of these pieces
was the other way around.

Sean

NP: Parker/Lytton/Guy/Crispell (interesting!!)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:05:52 +0200
From: "in.out" <[e-mail]>
Subject: T.sugimoto

Hi zorner,

Japanese guitar player Taku sagimoto is Actualy touring in France.

He will play Solo Wed 20th of October in Monaco at Logoscope.

more info @ www.anima.net/silsir/taku/




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:39:50 +0200
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: T.sugimoto

Is there a list of the other concert dates somewhere?
The site just says he will be touring London and then Switzerland
(lucky us)

Stephane

- -----Original Message-----
From: in.out <[e-mail]>
To: zorn list <[e-mail]>
Date: Dienstag, 19. Oktober 1999 14:04
Subject: T.sugimoto


>Japanese guitar player Taku sagimoto is Actualy touring in France.
>
>He will play Solo Wed 20th of October in Monaco at Logoscope.
>
>more info @ www.anima.net/silsir/taku/



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 14:58:14 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn Ensemble European tournee ?

The Saudades agency mentions a tour of the John Zorn Ensemble
in Europe, fall 1999:
    http://www.ejn.it/concerts/zonernes.htm

Does someone know more about this ? What ensemble is this ?
Cobra? Chamber Music ? Circle Maker ?

The dates are:
    16-11-99 Roma
    17-11-99 Antwerp
    18-11-99 Madrid
    19-11-99 Coimbra
    20-11-99 Wien

YVes


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:47:55 -0400
From: philz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown NY CD's for Sale

Last night I added a bunch of cd's to my ongoing rekkid sale, located at:

http://rekkids.squidco.com/

I think most of the new items will be of interest to people on the
Zorn list, so I'm posting here first before I tell the rest of the
world via Usenet.

You can see the recent additions alone by selecting the Recent
Additions item on that page, or directly at:

http://rekkids.squidco.com/FMPro?-token=recent&-db=Rekkids&-format=dis
playList.html&-max=50&-sortfield=EntryDate&-SortOrder=Descending&-sort
field=Artist&-sortfield=Format&-SortOrder=Ascending&-Op=neq&Ordered=1&
- -find


Thanks for the bandwidth!
                philz
                    [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:17:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: sonny shine <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RUINS in SF this Sunday!

yeah. that is a lot closer. lemme know when you find
out a definitive date! anyone.

son

- --- King Wilson <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >oh man!! i SO wanted to go to that. but me. i'm in
> >wisconsin. and i've got school and work. SUX!
> >
> >now all the californians are gonna rant and rave
> about
> >how kool it was, and i will kick myself for living
> in
> >wisconsin and having responsibilities.
> >
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> 2nd JAPANESE NEW MUSIC FESTIVAL
> >>
> >> The Japanese New Music Festival is back from its
> >> European Tour
> >> in '97 to bring an even more powerful
> performance.
> >> The three
> >> musicians will now perform in an overwhelming
> five
> >> different
> >> projects.
> >>
> >> Sunday, October 17, 1999, 9 pm
> >> $7 cover, all ages
> >> Club Cocodrie
> >> 1024 Kearny St (near Broadway)
> >> San Francisco, CA 94133
> >> [phone]
>
>
>   I don't know the exact date, but I believe this
> festival has a Chicago
> date, at the Fireside Bowl, in the next month or so.
>  I know Ruins are
> playing here soon, in any case.
>
>   That's a hellava lot closer to Wisconsin.......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:23:16 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: T.sugimoto

In a message dated 10/19/99 8:44:46 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Is there a list of the other concert dates somewhere?

The site just says he will be touring London and then Switzerland

(lucky us) >>

I know that he's playing three times (solo, guitar trio with Otomo and Keith
Rowe, and in Otomo's large-scale project, Mira Ni Narumade) over the weekend
of November 5-7 at the Music Unlimited festival in Wels, Austria. more info
at:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/4782/unlimited/deutsch-unltd99/prgvorlmain.htm

Otomo's playing in five different bands over the three days.

and yes, I'll be attending. and I'm getting fairly excited about the prospect
too.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:52:42 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Experimental segregation

Just back from a trip to Chicago. Saw some great music and picked up
quite a few CDs.

However I did note a disturbing trend there that I've also noted in
record stores in Montreal and New York City.

After looking over the jazz bins in a couple of places and finding that some
musicians seemed conspicuous by their absence, I asked store personnel
and was directed to the variously titled "experimental" or "out" sections.

There in a hodgepodge of discs that usually included (and I'm putting
together the sections of a few cities now) The Ruins, The Boredoms, Steve
Reich, Philip Glass, Scott Walker [!] and some early moog experiments, I
found discs by Peter Brotzmann, Evan Parker, AMM, John Zorn, Ken
Vandermark etc.

Now there are those who would say what those musicians and others play
isn't really "jazz" and thus should be in another section. However work
by Leo Smith, Anthony Braxton, Roscoe Mitchell, Cecil Taylor and others,
who are also a bit removed from the jazz tradition is still kept in the
"jazz" section.

The only unifying factor I can see in the two groups is that one of made
up of Whites, the other Blacks.

Do I detect the whiff of exclusion here or maybe even downright segregation?

Ken Waxman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:51:03 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Experimental segregation

On Tue, Oct 19, 1999 at 11:52:42AM -0400, Ken Waxman wrote:
> There in a hodgepodge of discs that usually included (and I'm putting
> together the sections of a few cities now) The Ruins, The Boredoms, Steve
> Reich, Philip Glass, Scott Walker [!] and some early moog experiments, I
> found discs by Peter Brotzmann, Evan Parker, AMM, John Zorn, Ken
> Vandermark etc.

[*snip*]

> The only unifying factor I can see in the two groups is that one of made
> up of Whites, the other Blacks.

Hmm... are the Ruins and the Boredoms "Whites"?

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:24:34 -0700
From: "van Osdel, Eric" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: RUINS in SF this Sunday!

You want to talk about kicking yourself? I live an hour away from San
Francisco, but I didn't get the message about the show until *MONDAY*
because of Stupid Email Server Tricks. Gah!

Man, was I pissed....

- --evo.


> --- King Wilson <[e-mail]> wrote:
> > >oh man!! i SO wanted to go to that. but me. i'm in
> > >wisconsin. and i've got school and work. SUX!
> > >
> > >now all the californians are gonna rant and rave
> > about
> > >how kool it was, and i will kick myself for living
> > in
> > >wisconsin and having responsibilities.
> > >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> 2nd JAPANESE NEW MUSIC FESTIVAL
> > >>
> > >> The Japanese New Music Festival is back from its
> > >> European Tour
> > >> in '97 to bring an even more powerful
> > performance.
> > >> The three
> > >> musicians will now perform in an overwhelming
> > five
> > >> different
> > >> projects.
> > >>
> > >> Sunday, October 17, 1999, 9 pm
> > >> $7 cover, all ages
> > >> Club Cocodrie
> > >> 1024 Kearny St (near Broadway)
> > >> San Francisco, CA 94133
> > >> [phone]
> >
> >
> >   I don't know the exact date, but I believe this
> > festival has a Chicago
> > date, at the Fireside Bowl, in the next month or so.
> >  I know Ruins are
> > playing here soon, in any case.
> >
> >   That's a hellava lot closer to Wisconsin.......
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> -
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:46:53 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Friedlander/Hole

On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:01:44 -0300  Linares Hugo wrote:
>
> According to Eric Friedlander's BIO Page, he appeared playing cello with
> Courtney Love's band Hole on MTV's Unplugged.
> When did it happened? Did anyone watch it or even listen to it?
> Any other further comments?

MTV UNPLUGGED SHOW No. 54: Hole

Recorded on 2/14/95 at Brooklyn Academy of Music, Brooklyn, New York
Aired on 4/17/95

Courtney Love: vocals, guitar
Melissa Auf Der Maur: bass, vocals
Patty Schemel: drums
Eric Erlandson: guitar
with:
Zeena Parkins: harp
Erik Friedlander: cello
Ralph Carney: miscellaneous wind intruments

Hal Wilner: musical supervisor

Set list:

  1/ Miss World
  2/ Best Sunday Dress
  3/ Pee Girl (Softer Softest)
  4/ Drown Soda
  5/ He Hit Me (And It Felt Like a Kiss)
  6/ Asking For It
  7/ You Got No Right
  8/ Drunk in Rio
  9/ Season of the Witch
  10/ Old Age
  11/ Hungry Like the Wolf
  12/ Doll Parts


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:30:07 -0400
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Experimental segregation

Ken wrote some interesting observations, then:

>Do I detect the whiff of exclusion here or maybe even downright segregation?

I don't think things are _quite_ as sinister as Ken suspects, though certainly
subtle strains of racism are present whenever one discusses the marginalization
of jazz (even here, in the US at least, I get the strong impression that the
fear of the 'other'--racism, if you will--is directed more towards non-whites
from the same culture, rather than those safely and exotically elsewhere in the
world). As is usually the case, the stores are likely responding to the
predilections of their customers, racially based as those might be, when they
put Brotzmann in one section and Taylor in another. There are many music
consumers (no-one on this list, of course!) who enjoy experimental music
produced by folk whose prime influences are jazz musicians but whose music might
be able to be _perceived_ as something else, who have an aversion to actual jazz
music. Now, to a great extent, this maps pretty closely onto a white/black
breakdown, but whether that's simply because of the large number of black
musicians in jazz vis a vis those in "experimental" (jazz-influenced but not
jazz) music or due to any underlying racism--it could be both, of course--is an
open question. The whole notion of "jazz" has been so polluted by the mainstream
media that it's no wonder listeners, especially younger ones, are put off from
the start. Check out any representation of jazz musicians in commercials, for
example; if it's not some sappy white schlockmeister a la the G-man, it's a
pimpified or beatnik-ized black guy, only to be enjoyed "ironically" like lounge
music. Why would any self-respecting young listener want to have anything to do
with _that_?! In other words, they're glad to listen to and buy music that is
strongly jazz-influenced as long as they don't have to use the word "Jazz",
because that might force them to deal with implications, some of them racially
motivated, that they'd rather ignore. Hey, maybe Ken was right after all.

FWIW, in NYC, one of the HMV's had an experimental section for a while (located
in the jazz department) which followed the patterns that Ken observed. I also
wondered about their decisions on who to include (though I have to say, I didn't
think of it in racial terms--too many Japanese musicians there!) but, overall,
appreciated the gesture, as it saved me time wandering the various areas to see,
for example, where they chose to file something like Frith's 'Pacifica'. They've
since abandoned the idea, so now I have to hope to serendipitously find, say,
Frank London in the Israel portion of their World section.

Brian Olewnick

Note: the above was written in one irrepressible spasm and may contain opinions
I'll find ridiculous in a couple of hours. But probably not.





- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #777
*******************************


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