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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, October 5 1999       Volume 02 : Number 765



In this issue:
-
       Re: more ny times (no jewel)
       Re: Re: ny times
       Statman
       Re: free-jazz klezmer
       more on the times
       Re: more on the times
       Radically jewish (was: more on the times)
       Couple Questions
       some Zorn questions
       Request - help in contacting AVANT recodrs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 21:22:49 +1000
From: Peter Hollo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more ny times (no jewel)

Well I went and "subscribed" on the NY Times site (using a yahoo.com email
address, since I don't want any junk mail from doing so) and read the article.
I didn't immediately find it extremely offensive. Certainly misguided, certainly
a lot of errors, but not incredibly negative.
Nevertheless, I can see why it is hurtful and offensive.

Being a secular Jew myself, I wonder (from experience) whether the author may be
exhibiting (possibly not deliberately) that sortof shtetl mentality that says
"I'm Jewish, so I should make extra extra sure that nobody thinks I'm being
biased towards the Jews"... This often comes out (I see it a lot in Russian Jews
for instance) in a tendency to be particularly critical of Jewish people,
especially in contrast to goyim.

Well obviously that's not all there is to it, but I got a bit of a feeling that
this phenomenon could be involved.
Cheers,
Peter.
- --
Peter Hollo  [e-mail]  http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html
FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au
Raven: experimental electronic http://www.fourplay.com.au/sound.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 09:15:10 -0400
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: ny times

>(other than *for sale* @nytimes.com)


It's not for sale: subbing to the NYT over the net involves no money and you don't get put on any mailing lists.





- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:07:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Statman

In a message dated 99-10-05 04:35:22 EDT, you write:
>Andy Statman's another obvious example; don't know off
>     the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure he's been melding klezmer with
>     Coltrane since at least the early 80's.

His first major recorded statement in that vein was his LP, Flatbush Waltz,
on Rounder, which came out in 1980. An amazing album, and one of two terrific
LPs (the other being Nashville Mornings, New York Nights), incidently, that
Rounder, inexplicably, has never transfered to CD. Considering Statman's
relatively high profile, especially since Perlman collaborated with him on
those two Fiddler's House CDs, and the elevation of the tune Flatbush Waltz
into the pantheon of modern klezmer standards, it is mystifying to me.

Relatedly, here's a piece on Statman I wrote a few years back for the Chgo
Trib (when I was still using a nom de plume--David Duckman--in Chicago area
publications). He is an interesting guy.

Dave Royko
- -----------------
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
December 1, 1994
Tempo Section

MAN OF DEPTH
Andy Statman's latest affirms life of breaking barriers.
By David Duckman

Both Andy Statman and Bill Monroe are exceptional bluegrass
mandolinists and composers, and they both wear hats. That just about
sums up their similarities. Their differences begin with the colors of
their hats.

Monroe's is a white Stetson; the image of it perched atop his head is
the very image of bluegrass music itself. Statman's is a black
Streimel; the image of it perched upon his head is the very image of
the orthodox Jew.

Perhaps to some, the idea of an orthodox Jew excelling in bluegrass
might seem odd, but not to Andy Statman. He has spent his life breaking
musical barriers, not simply for the sake of doing so, or to create
controversy, but because his musical path cuts across many terrains.
Nobody has introduced elements of the jazz avant garde into bluegrass
playing to the degree Statman has. From his early 1970s recordings with
Country Cooking and Breakfast Special, sharp stabs of atonality have
marked his soloing.

In addition, he has also stirred healthy dollops of Eastern European,
Turkish, Armenian, and Jewish seasonings into his sound. Three albums
released by Rounder in the 1980s showcase his eclectic, highly personal
approach to mandolin music--the jazz-based "Flatbush Waltz" (1980), the
aptly titled album of improvised duets with David Grisman, "Mandolin
Abstractions" (1982), and the quasi-bluegrass "Nashville Mornings, New
York Nights" (1986).

It took until now for Statman to release another bluegrass album, and
it is his most orthodox bluegrass musical statement yet. A tribute to
Bill Monroe, "Andy's Ramble" (Rounder) consists of nine original tunes
played by a group that includes Tony Trischka, John Sholle, Kenny
Kosek, and Vassar Clements. During the eight year gap between this and
his previous Rounder album, however, Statman disappeared from the
bluegrass world, and many of his fans wondered if he had left music
altogether.

In fact, Statman was building a following in his home city of New York,
not as a bluegrass mandolinist, but as one of the premier klezmer
clarinetists and band leaders in town, and spending time with the
pioneering klezmer giant, the late Dave Tarras. Tarras, who held a
position in klezmer music that was equivalent to Bill Monroe's position
in bluegrass, came to consider Statman his protege.

"The first time I saw him, I travelled way out to a very inaccessible
area," says Statman. "He showed me a song, and I asked if I could tape
it, so I could learn all the subtleties. So he said, 'You come to me
for a lesson, and you want I should make a record too?'"
With that quip, an important relationship began, one that Statman
describes as like that of "a grandfather and grandson."

"I would come over and we'd spend hours talking about music, and he'd
play for me," says Statman. "I'd ask him how to do certain things, or
I'd ask him questions about taste, and he'd sit down and show me. We'd
have tea, I'd go with him to the barbershop. He was often ill, so I'd
go out and get medicine for him. We spent alot of time together, which
was great. Here was a guy who went from remembering when they had the
first Edison cylinder type phonographs in the Ukraine to seeing a man
land on the moon. He was in the Czar's army. He lived through an
amazing period in history."

Likewise as a teacher, Tarras was from a different age.

"By and large, he had no real system of teaching," says Statman. "These
days, you see jazz courses that take you from a to b to c to d. With
these old guys, you just sort of jump in and that's it. For lack of a
better word, there's a certain spiritual transference that you can get
just by hanging out with someone, watching their body language."

Tarras was not the only teacher of Statman's who did not fit the
typical "instructor" mold, nor was Tarras the first musical giant to
influence him in a profound way.

"I'd seen David Grisman play, and I contacted him and a life long
friendship evolved out of that," says Statman of an association that
began thirty years ago. "He had almost a teach yourself method, which
was ideal for me. I'd go there, and he would show me a tune. Then he'd
say, 'Listen, I have to leave. Make tape copies of all this stuff, and
lock the door when you leave, and call me when you learn the stuff.' He
would have rare tapes of Bill Monroe shows and Jim & Jesse shows, and
all these old 78s and 45s on tape, stuff that was not available
anywhere else in 1965. So I'd tape for a few hours, go home, slow down
these tapes, learn as much as I could, and after a month or two, I'd
give him a call. So, over two years, I took five, maybe six lessons
like that. By that time, I was getting into other types of music. I was
very interested in jazz, and other things. And David gave me the added
impetus to move off into my own direction."

As the years passed, Statman's musical direction led to his deepening
commitment to Judaism.

"Andy wasn't raised orthodox," says Grisman. "He came to that through
the music. As he got more into the Jewish music, he realized that the
key to it was in the spirituality of it. It's not easy to be an
orthodox Jew. To come to it through the music shows the power of that
music."

Grisman considers his impact on Statman to be among his own major
accomplishments.

"Andy has that rare ability that only a few mandolinists have," says
Grisman. "That depth, that pure expression that touches the inner part
of me. Like Bill Monroe, and Dave Apollon. If I'd done nothing but been
Andy's first mandolin teacher, I would feel like I'd made a
contribution."

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:33:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: free-jazz klezmer

Probably in the early 1990s. But like Zorn they're not a focus. He still
plays a lot of free jazz.

Ken Waxman


On Mon, 4 Oct 1999, Tom Pratt wrote:

> When did Burton Greene begin his Klezmer-influenced
> projects?
>
>      -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 99 11:19:06 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: more on the times

Sunday and Monday I was just angry at a newspaper article that missed the point
of music I love. But today, especially after reading Steve's comments, I really
feel sick. I know many of the musicians on the "scene" and am not close friends
with any, so it gives me a vantage to look at what articles like this can do. I
mean, Zorn's pretty big and pretty secure in his career, and I think he can
weather the storm of having been insulted and shredded in what could be seen as
an anti-Semetic article if you get down to it (other folks can dabble in
whatever ethnic musics they want, the piece seems to say, but Jews have a
special obligation to represent their own culture in a certain way -- even if
that way is never stated). Since we know what Zorn thinks about the media, I
think (as Steve said) he'll probably just reason "yeah, I was right to not talk
to them since the 80s").

But less established artists may not be able to suffer the hamfisted blows of
the Arts & Leisure section so easily. I've tried to stay above the fray in the
storm caused by the Times' piece on Susie Ibarra, who I know to be a very sweet
person and gifted percussionist. I still don't know the details -- and don't
really care to -- but it seems evident that the stir created by the Times'
profile of Ibarra not only led to the dissolution of one of the finest rhythm
sections in town (Susie and William Parker, who played together in the David S.
Ware quartet, William's In Order To Survive, Assif Tsahar's trio and other
projects), but a lot of hard feelings and harsh words. Zorn (perhaps) aside,
this is a small group of people who all know each other and work together, and
aren't necessarily used to such high-profile attention, at least not stateside.
When the attention of one of the most powerful papers in the country comes with
comments that are sure to be divisive (why call Ibarra the best drummer on the
scene, for example? Why can't she just be "one of the best"? Journalism 101:
anytime you say best, biggest, tallest, tiniest, most advanced, first, last,
etc., someone will take exception), some people are bound to start taking sides.
It wouldn't surprise me to start hearing some musicians and/or audience members
now adopt the "Zorn isn't Jewish enough" NYTimes stance, which is such a
meaningless statement it's absurd to even call it misinformed. But, as I said, I
wouldn't be surprised. Not after the anti-Zorn graffiti that's been popping up
in the bathrooms at Tonic and the Knit. Don't know what that's about. Haven't
seen too many people devote themselves to building this music (beyond just their
own career) the way Zorn has. But whereas stupid graffiti should be ignored,
stupid newspaper articles should not.

I'm not sure what the point is here -- that the press is powerful, and used
incorrectly that power can be harmful? Well, that's nothing new. I guess it's
just sad that a writer can think his or her knee-jerk opinion of the week is
more important than the career of an artist. Not that Zorn's career will really
suffer, but it makes me feel bad that Ibarra's might.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:29:38 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more on the times

On Tue, Oct 05, 1999 at 11:19:06AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:

> But less established artists may not be able to suffer the hamfisted blows of
> the Arts & Leisure section so easily. I've tried to stay above the fray in the
> storm caused by the Times' piece on Susie Ibarra, who I know to be a very sweet
> person and gifted percussionist.

I must have missed this article. Is it still online anywhere?

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 16:39:36 GMT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Radically jewish (was: more on the times)

>From: [e-mail]

other folks can dabble in
>whatever ethnic musics they want, the piece seems to say, but Jews have a
>special obligation to represent their own culture in a certain way -- even
>if
>that way is never stated

Kurt, pardon if I took your comments out of context, or missed something,
but what makes you think this?  [I also realize this isn't
soc.culture.jewish, but it seems like a pretty germane topic considering so
much of the Downtown scene (Knit, Zorn and Tzadik, etc etc) has been
collectively working towards new expressions of Judaism, or explorations of
what it means, among other things.]  Why Jews?  And why an obliagtion?  And
why is it "special"?  More "special" than African-Americans, or more special
in its own specified way? (Which, BTW, would seem to really require a
rephrasing of the position.)  I could see a couple factors leading you to
make your statement.  For example, the deceptive (social) nature of both
"race" and "ethnicity".  Zorn traced his "awakening" to his cultural roots
back to a visit to Germany, among other things; apparently anti-Semitic
activity made him realize that he "wasn't white" (as he put it).  So: acute
awareness of marginality, of oppressed status, perhaps; certainly of
VULNERABILITY and insitutional and historical injustice.  Another idea: the
Holocaust as a cataclysmic reminder of the first point.  But first point:
does this not equally apply to Black people, who additionally do not have
the option of "passing", or choosing to assimilate deceptively into the
majority of a given culture?  How about mulattos, who might or might not
have this choice?  Are they specially obliged to express their racial (read:
minority) heritage?  And as to the second point: the Holocaust becomes less
unique, less uniquely catacysmic, when compared to internationally variable
HIV/AIDS statistics.  (Of course, these two Holocausts are very different;
but both seem to demand a multifaceted cultural response.)

These are just some questions that occurred to me that, IMHO, contribute to
one possible deep enjoyment of the richness, texture, and historical
complexity of Zorn playing explicitly Jewish free jazz, or Don Byron playing
klezmer music, or Henry Threadgill's use of tango, or Uri Caine's
apropriations of Mahler.  Anyhoo.

- ----s

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:02:10 -0400
From: Jeremy Isaac Mc Cormick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Couple Questions

   Welp, I've realized that the combined knowledge of everyone in this
group is enough to answer any music question, so here goes.  Sorry, if
these seem easy, but I'm lazy. :)

   Does anyone know of any Downbeat articles about David S. Ware?  I'm
interested in checking out what equipment he uses.  Anything in the past
year or two would be cool.

   Also, does anyone know of any Tom Waits articles where he discusses his
influences in detail, not just a few remarks?  Any web addresses on
this would be appreciated, too.

   Okay, I really enjoy the list, hope yall can answer these 2
questions!  Now I'll go back to killing myself with beer nuggets.

     Jeremy "Jailbird" McCormick


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:02:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andy Miller <[e-mail]>
Subject: some Zorn questions

Some of these questions might be a little out of place at the moment-- the
Zorn-NYTimes issue seems to be the major thread at the moment.  Still, I
want to ask a few things about Zorn's recent work.

1. I've been listening to the recently released "Godard" piece-- it's
interesting, but I feel that I'm not picking up on the 'networks of
meaning and suggestion' that I assume must be at work in it.  (As a point
of contrast, I feel a certain affinity for the "world" evoked by Spillane
or or Two-Lane Highway... but Godard leaves me a little bewildered). I
guess what I'm wondering is: how does this piece relate
to/illuminate/problematize (etcetc) its subject?

2. In the liner notes to 'The String Quartets' Zorn makes some strong
claims for "Memento Mori"-- something about how the piece was a sort of
breakthrough for him, etc.  I've listened to this several times but always
mind myself getting bored with it.  Any ideas what Zorn is getting at with
this composition? (and in his remarks about it?)

I hope these are worthwhile questions...

Andy


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:24:30 +1100
From: "Bruno" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Request - help in contacting AVANT recodrs

Hallo Zorn-heads

    just a quick coupla questions - I've been a bit of a Zorn fan for a while
now, and I'm looking to track down a few more of the Naked City albums. From
hitting the Zorn discog, it looks like the "Avant" label have a lot of the
stuff I'm after - so the questions are:

1. does anybody know how to contact Avant records (an e-mail or WWW would be
nice) - I've tried to get local record stores to track them down, but they
have NO idea
2. any reccomendations for "the" Naked City albums to track down - I have
"Torture Garden" & "Naked City" - are they all genius? any better than
others?

Thanks....

u-no


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           GPO Box 252-30, Hobart, Tasmania 7001.
                     ph: (03) 62 26 7664
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                      http://come.to/u-no

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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #765
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