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1999-08-17
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #744
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, August 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 744
In this issue:
-
Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #741
Re: Derek Bailey goes pop.......
new derek bailey purchases
discipline 27ii
Re: music guide to boston ?
Re: recent goodies (otomo edition)
spoken word
Re: spoken word
Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
Re: Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
Re: Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
Re: spoken word
Watching vs. Listening
Re: Watching vs. Listening
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:29:31 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #741
On Tue, Aug 17, 1999 at 09:52:14PM -0400, Mike Chamberlain wrote:
> But I wonder if we all agree--we don't--and more importantly, how we
> approach this issue. It's a lot more, too, than what someone is wearing
> and how long their hair is. What is it that seems to be more
> interesting about watching people blow through tubes and hit things with
> sticks than watching someone hit buttons on a computer keyboard?
Relatedly: is watching a pianist more interesting than watching a
powerbook player? Why or why not?
I've seen one computer player, BTW, who just blew me away: Charles
Cohen, who plays in the group Straylight. I saw him in a duet in
Baltimore (with, if memory serves, the equally astonishing
percussionist Toshi Makihara), and the attention and connection of
their sounds was just great.
- --
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:44:26 -0400
From: Dan Given <lgiven1@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey goes pop.......
>Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:42:09 -0400
>From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
>Subject: Re: Derek Bailey goes pop.......
>(jonesing to buy the new DB with a couple Canadian blokes I just saw
yesterday
>at Downtown Music Gallery... damn, it irks me when there's a new DB that I
don't
>have yet...)
>
This album kicks ass!! The Canadian blokes are the Vertrek Ensemble - Vadim
Budman playing guitar and cornet, Ron De Jong on percussion. Most of the
disc is Bailey/one Vertrekker duets, but there's on trio piece, and one
track without DB. There's a guitar/cornet duet that is so outright
aggressive that it scares me. My first couple of listens, I wasn't
completely satisfied with it, having listened to so much solo Bailey lately
that I had determined he shouldn't play with anyone else. But it has grown
on me in the few weeks I've had it. There's also a Vertrek w/out DB that
is very different - extremely melodic, lots of acoustic guitar, some
mandolin, that is also quite good.
And since we're heaping the accolades on Bailey, I finally got Arch Duo. I
have been in one of those modes where every Cadence/Verge order seems to
have at least one item by either Bailey or Parker, and I am trying to get
out of that. However, I couldn't resist this one, as I haven't heard any of
their other duets (or trios even), and was wondering how two people who
have such individual approaches would mesh. Well, Parker seems to have
melded himself into Bailey's universe more than vice versa - there's less
circular breathing, less multiphonics. More of a staccatto approach,
punctuating Bailey's notes and slashed chords. Very refreshing to hear
this (slightly) different side of Parker. Up there for one of my favorite
albums this year.
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 07:16:19 +0200
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <stefan.annik@planetinternet.be>
Subject: new derek bailey purchases
Hi
Just to let you know that incus records have some new cds on their
catalogue:
- -derek bailey and vertrek ensemble: departures. A very incredible cd, it
definitelyt has a new sound for derek. Budman, the guitar player in this
band don't want to imitate dereks' playing, and builds a metallic wall of
sound....and derek. he just wants to pull that wall down
- -derek bailey and evan parker: arch duo: don't have to explain more:
beautiful european free jazz by two masters
- -Bailey-stevens-watts: dynamics of the impromptu: the same goes here....
very dynamic interplay by these masters
- -intermission: a collective interplay (although derek only sits in on the
last three tracks) between bailey, hekman, de joode, william parker,
taninaka and chris burn...... 3 bass players, so believe me... a very deep
sound
anyway: the cheapest way for europeans is to order these from incus records
directly. They cost 12 pounds including p and p.
best wishes
Stefan Verstraeten
stefan.annik@planetinternet.be
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 04:19:04 -0400
From: "lava" <lovevolv@dti.net>
Subject: discipline 27ii
sunbursts appear in dark disguises
bringing to fore
the strange truth of eternal myth
is the sound; it is the
sound truth ... music sound
and there always is music
the music always is
whatever is
always whatever is the music is
the sound pure
the sound symmetry
equational values; vibrational
differentiations: rhythms,
harmonies, thought moods, pattern
silences that speak
cohesive points bridges connect
opposites......
there is black sound
the code
projection sensitivity
force reach decision
perpendicular spirals
galxies, planets, earth
man and his world
and the other world of man
comprehension response
to the world of angels
- - sun ra -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:00:25 +0400
From: Simon Hopkins <simon@state51.co.uk>
Subject: Re: music guide to boston ?
Benjamin
A bit of a plug, but hopefully helpful for you... You might want to check
out the Specialist Recordshop Finder that's part of our motion website:
http://motion.state51.co.uk
In the meantime, if you come across any Boston recordshops that we don't
list please stick em in the database or else drop me a line.
Cheers
Simon
simon hopkins is a member of the state51 conspiracy
http://motion.state51.co.uk
reviews | features | services
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 06:17:34 -0400
From: lefauxhulot@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: recent goodies (otomo edition)
mike chamberlain wrote:
> But I wonder if we all agree--we don't--and more importantly, how we
> approach this issue.=A0 It's a lot more, too, than what someone is wear=
ing
> and how long their hair is.=A0 What is it that seems to be more
> interesting about watching people blow through tubes and hit things wit=
h
> sticks than watching someone hit buttons on a computer keyboard?
o.k. we have been throwing stones each other based on different
preferences... it's all relative according to your taste. you're asking
if all of us can agree that it's more interesting watching people blow
through tubes and hit things with sticks than watching someone hit
buttons on a computer keyboard...
no. not all of us can agree w/ that. you cannot generalize such thing.
i know way too many people get turned off just because there are some
people standing with some horns & strings, and play songs... and even
worse, between songs they'd wait & expect audience to clap their hands
&/or applaud. you probably cannot imagine such folks simply turn their
heads away if there's one performer playing the guitar & singing, or
blowing horns & screaming, or whatever.
those people you cannot imagine existing would ask where they'd be able
to see some djs or electronics performers sitting behind samplers or
laptops! for them, rather than watching some sweating players showing
off how hard they are playing, they'd love to see somebody sitting cooly
behind one little laptop blasting massive sound as if it's not a big
deal. (although, many of them might've prepared w/ so much work & sweat
for the performance?! - well, it's not so important to me anyway how
much they prepared... as long as it sounds good to me.)
hey, it's all relative. nothing applies everything/everybody.
> Maybe we can turn this discussion in a slightly different direction.
> Apart from what we see as the merits of a particular musical and
> instrumental approach, what role does "performance" and staging have to
> play in our enjoyment?=A0 Thinking of Victo still, on Thursday night,
> Maxime Rioux presented Automates K.=A0 The performance consisted of
> programming "robots," for lack of a better word, to produce sounds.
> Now, the music that was produced was not so great, mainly because Maxim=
e
> seemed to abandon his ideas too quickly without letting them develop.
> But a big part of the fun was watching the robots themselves.=A0 Howeve=
r,
> everything was set up on a stage at the front, so most of the audience
> did not have a good view of what was happening.=A0 I talked with Maxime
> afteward, and he was disappointed because they weren't able to stage th=
e
> whole thing in the middle of the room.=A0 Michel Levasseur seemed to be
> inflexible in this regard, or perhaps the technical people were daunted
> by the effort that doing this would have entailed.=A0 Anyway, it seemed=
an
> opportunity lost.=A0 And it's a shame, because it would have added a lo=
t
> to my enjoyment, and everyone else's.=A0 Now both Tom and Kurt have sai=
d
> that it is the music that matters, that we go to listen, not to see.
i know maxime personally. one of his tapes he gave me more than 2 yrs.
ago was this automates thing. i liked it a lot. however, you'd say it's
more entertaining since there are robots.
it's as if you'd rather see visually attractive performance w/ mediocre
sound than motionless performance w/ great sounds.
(well, you'd say it's even better if both can be provided... so, you
high five with jazz stuff... but i've seen many mediocre jazz stuff w/
lots of sweat & blowing too.)
blindfolded or not, great sounds are great experience. if
o'rourke/muller performance was not great sonic experience, it's just
that.=20
not to be complained because its lack of theatrical sense.
i can enjoy music w/ or w/o visual entertainment. but for the people who
cannot get it, (as i mentioned before) a lot of electronic artists/
eventers are making a lot of effort to make them feel relaxed & enjoy
the space _including_ their sounds. don't consider those visuals are
cover-ups for the inferior sounds. no. good sounds are (in any formats)
good. period. but many of those artists (maybe not o'rourke or muller,
but many other electronic music performers) are into interacting w/
people. any people. not cutting out those who wouldn't get it. so.. make
whole space enjoyable, touchable, walkable... what's wrong with that?!?
i think all traditional instrumental performers rather cut themselves
away from those who come & see their shows. 'we're on stage playing.
you're sitting on chairs watching & applauding' kinda attitude.
but... yeah. it's all relative. you want that hard chair & watching
towards single direction & applaude. i wouldn't mind that too sometimes,
but i'd go out w/ my pillow to soak in the multi-directional soundscape
by more than one act seamlessly provided by some performers in turns
behind laptops or turntables w/o watching them. both are cool to me.
sorry i cannot make things concise partly due to my poor command of
english. (it's not my preferred choice of language.) but i think i said
enough, this time. i'll shut off myself for a while & read replies
silently. - pt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:05:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: benjamin elliot axelrad <beaxelra@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: spoken word
Has any heard the following two discs:
James Joyce -- Anna Livia Plurabelle -- Sub Rosa
William Carlos Williams -- White Woman
Ben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:21:44 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: spoken word
On Wed, Aug 18, 1999 at 09:05:42AM -0500, benjamin elliot axelrad wrote:
> Has any heard the following two discs:
>
> James Joyce -- Anna Livia Plurabelle -- Sub Rosa
While I haven't heard the disc itself (though I should get it -- who
carries it?), I have heard a tape of Joyce reading that and something
else from the Wake ("The Mooske and the Gripes"?) that was just
beautiful, extraordinary work. Ideally, everyone should hear bits of
the book read aloud before diving into reading it in print. Less
scary that way, and more joyous.
- --
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:49:07 GMT
From: "uranus musickness" <hotpoopy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
I am looking to purchase a computer next week. I want to use it for music
recording, editing, composing etc. Unfortunatly, I don't know enough about
the hardware and software I need. What would anyone here recommend?
(soundcard, harddrive, cd burner etc.) You can respond privatly.
Also, so my topic isn't completly unlist related, does anyone know about the
Derek Bailey/Thurston Moore cd?
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:29:39 -0500
From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
Actually, I would be interested in these types of reccomendations as well,
so if folks don't mind copying me, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks,
Ralph
At 03:49 PM 8/18/99 +0000, uranus musickness wrote:
>
>
>I am looking to purchase a computer next week. I want to use it for music
>recording, editing, composing etc. Unfortunatly, I don't know enough about
>the hardware and software I need. What would anyone here recommend?
>(soundcard, harddrive, cd burner etc.) You can respond privatly.
>
>Also, so my topic isn't completly unlist related, does anyone know about the
>Derek Bailey/Thurston Moore cd?
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
>-
>
Robert Pleshar
Head, Serial Orders
University of Chicago Library
1100 E. 57th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:51:28 -0400
From: "Zachary J. Griffin" <zgriffin@iconn.net>
Subject: Re: Computers and music-help!/Bailey and Moore
I, too am interested in these computer software reccomendations.
Zach Griffin
"Robert A. Pleshar" wrote:
> Actually, I would be interested in these types of reccomendations as well,
> so if folks don't mind copying me, I'd appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph
>
> At 03:49 PM 8/18/99 +0000, uranus musickness wrote:
> >
> >
> >I am looking to purchase a computer next week. I want to use it for music
> >recording, editing, composing etc. Unfortunatly, I don't know enough about
> >the hardware and software I need. What would anyone here recommend?
> >(soundcard, harddrive, cd burner etc.) You can respond privatly.
> >
> >Also, so my topic isn't completly unlist related, does anyone know about the
> >Derek Bailey/Thurston Moore cd?
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________
> >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
> >
> >-
> >
> Robert Pleshar
> Head, Serial Orders
> University of Chicago Library
> 1100 E. 57th Street
> Chicago, IL 60637
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:36:04 -0400
From: eric ong <eso200@is5.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: spoken word
Hello,
>While I haven't heard the disc itself (though I should get it -- who=20
>carries it?), I have heard a tape of Joyce reading that and something
>else from the Wake ("The Mooske and the Gripes"?) that was just
>beautiful, extraordinary work. Ideally, everyone should hear bits of
>the book read aloud before diving into reading it in print. Less=20
>scary that way, and more joyous.
One of the Joyce websites, "Work In Progress", has a real audio sample of
Jimmy reading the ALP section from FW in its multimedia section. For those
interested, just follow the yellow brick road:
http://www.2street.com/joyce/gallery/index.html
Under "Joycean Audio": "Samples of Joyce reading from ALP". Joyce reputedly
had a great singing voice and at one point in his life even had ambitions
of becoming a professional singer.=20
eso.so.0.2
- --
$..:=A6=A6=A6=A6=B2 2933.43344Z=20
powered by caffeine=20
http:// - 10100 00000 10000 00000 10000 01011 011 000 =20
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:15:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Peter Risser <knucklehead000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Watching vs. Listening
On the subject of visually-uninteresting performers,
I think there are two reasons to go to a live show.
One, to hear music you might not hear anywhere else.
Two, to see music performed.
Well, usually two over one, at least for me.
I like a good show, which is usually why I pay cash for tunes.
For example, I've found that the theatrical aspects of Cobra are, for
me, as important as the musical ones. Cobra on disc just doesn't do it
for me.
Anyway, I have seen some non-theatrical performers, the only one whose
name I can remember was PGR, whose real name is, I think, Kim Cascone.
That's close. Good lord, it's amazing how the mind works.
Anyway, he basically sat behind his keyboard and played these very
ethereal, but interesting works.
I got very tired of looking at him sit around though, and took that
opportunity to close my eyes and lean back and just listen. Normally,
I don't get a chance to do that with phones and TVs and other folks and
chores and work and so on, so it was a nice break to just sit and
immerse myself in the situation. Also, I found I appreciated the music
much more not being distracted by the lack of visual stimuli.
Now, if you found the music boring too, hey, then that's boring,
whatever.
But if it's just the sights you're missing, I'd recommend a full
immersion and close your eyes and listen.
Works great.
Peter
PS: I also saw Ikue Mori play with a group once and while everyone else
was wacked out and moving around, she just sat there very quietly and
pushed buttons. I thought that was kind of funny, especially compared
to the contortions Zeena Parkins was going through. That was before I
knew who any of these people were...
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:47:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: benjamin elliot axelrad <beaxelra@midway.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Re: Watching vs. Listening
> I got very tired of looking at him sit around though, and took that
> opportunity to close my eyes and lean back and just listen. Normally,
> I don't get a chance to do that with phones and TVs and other folks and
> chores and work and so on, so it was a nice break to just sit and
> immerse myself in the situation. Also, I found I appreciated the music
I find it's very helpful to close my eyes during peroformances for a few
reason. Sometimes there's just too much visual stimuli. During Roscoe
Mitchell's performance of L-R-G the majority of the audience was
distracted by the artists switching instruments (and, in the case of
George Lewis, mouthpieces) every minute. Also I find myself fixating on
audience members who talk throughout the performance and by closing my
eyes I can sometimes relegate the noise to the natural environment (and
sometime I take pleasure in the fact that they were 'misled' by their
local 'alternative' newspap.r). This was also the case with the Mitchell
show, as most of trhe audience was there only b/c it was at thye Museum
of Contemporary Art.
Ben.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #744
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