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Zorn List Digest        Friday, August 13 1999        Volume 02 : Number 735



In this issue:
-
       Hardcore Punk
       Cage/Legeti
       Why are we so sick?
       Re: Why are we so sick?
       Re: Why are we so sick?
       Re: Why are we so sick?
       Re: Cage/Legeti
       Re: Why are we so sick?
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #734
       Re: Hardcore Punk
       since i've been gone
       Re: since i've been gone
       Re: Cage/Legeti
       Re: Why are we so sick?
       Re: Hardcore Punk

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:47:26 GMT
From: "uranus musickness" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hardcore Punk

Zorn people,

As I was growing up I was a big fan of hardcore punk bands such as Black
Flag, Bad Brains, Circle Jerks, Bl'ast, Minor Threat etc. etc.

I know those days are gone, but I still love the energy and aggression of
good punk rock. ( I am of course a fan of all good music. Zorn, Zappa,
Miles, Clinton are my gods.)

I find that most current punk music is very weak and too Emo in style. I
only know of two good bands right now that play this style. I will recommend
them, if you have any to recommend please share.

1. Wretch Like Me- Out of Colorado. They Frickin rock!!!! Reminds me of
Black Flag without the dementedness. Very good stuff!!!!

2. Zeke- Out of Seattle. The definate punk band. Like the Ramones and Fear
thrown into a blender on puree, and still spinning!

Thanks,
John




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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:55:56 -0500
From: John Howard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cage/Legeti

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:01:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jason Walton <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Dying Ground/ Spillane/Godard
>
> so what are the violin parts like, are they more
> orinented towards the screeching of his first solo cd,
> or the more tonal second cd?
>
> can anyone tell me about Xenaxis or Dumitrescu?
>
> also, what is the name of the cage piece where he has
> nails on the strings of the piano, and whats the most
> insane Legeti piece?
>
> Jason "dying for knowledge" Walton
>
Mode has a bunch of Cage's Prepared Piano works available and Wergo has a
fine series of them as well.  Is The Legeti piece you mention the one for
Poeme Symphonic for 100 Metronomes?  That one is great and pretty easy to
find, Try Mechanical Music on Sony. Legeti Edition 5.  john

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:25:23 GMT
From: "uranus musickness" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Why are we so sick?

Sorry this is not music related. But all of a sudden I find myself sickened
by what I see in the news media and the attempted Jew killings in L.A.---

It is bad enough that we have sicko's like Furrow loose in society, but now
we have the news media doing something I fear will only help his stupid
cause. Why do they feel it is necessary to give him the gratification and
editorial time by reporting to the world his sick statements?

Do we really need to know that this fuck says that this is "A wake up call
to Americans to start killing Jews?" What the hell is their problem? I
believe in freedom of the press, freedom to own guns (a freedom that Furrow
didn't have)and more freedoms than we have in America but...

I draw the line when the news media lets go of any decency to put something
in the paper and on the news in which it's only purpose is to sell more
snazzy and shocking stories.

I pray that because of this guys words being reported that we don't have a
bunch of copy cat attacks. But then, imagine all the papers that would sell
if that happened.

Again, I am sorry for intruding with this non-music related ranting!

John Schuller


_______________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:42:30 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Why are we so sick?

In a message dated 8/12/99 1:27:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Why do they feel it is necessary to give him the gratification and
 editorial time by reporting to the world his sick statements?
  >>

The bottom line is, because we buy it. If we (collectively) stopped watching
the program or boycotted the sponsors, the media would start listening to
whatever we  wanted. But "we" (or "they" if you prefer) are collectively
paying their salaries at the moment.

My two cents.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:25:37 -0800
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Why are we so sick?

A possible solution:
throw out your tv
Dont buy newpapers
listen to NPR

>The bottom line is, because we buy it. If we (collectively) stopped watching
>the program or boycotted the sponsors, the media would start listening to
>whatever we  wanted. But "we" (or "they" if you prefer) are collectively
>paying their salaries at the moment.
>
>My two cents.
>
>Dale.
>
>-


When the coverage of babies getting credit cards and random shootings is
inversely proportional to the amount of coverage of our recent bombing
campaign on Iraq, there is something wrong with journalism. And since
journalism covers what people will consume, there is something wrong with
our culture. But that is old news already.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:25:52 PDT
From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Why are we so sick?

<< Why do they feel it is necessary to give him the gratification and
editorial time by reporting to the world his sick statements?  >>

The bottom line is, because we buy it. If we (collectively) stopped watching
the program or boycotted the sponsors, the media would start listening to
whatever we  wanted. But "we" (or "they" if you prefer) are collectively
paying their salaries at the moment. My two cents.

Dale.

******************************************************************
but i don't think people are quite as morbid as the media would love us to
believe. yeah, sure some percentage of the population watches these specials
about this for some cheep thrill/curiosity, say for a glimpse into the mind
of the perpatraitor... but it seems like the majority of people are still
conned to believe that the *Media* is what they truely say they are, that
the facts aren't warped thru the
several layers of filters before reaching the audience, and the believe they
have no other outlets for aquiring information about the world around them.
i mean, isn't it the media who rant and rave about our sick society with our
guns & violence on TV, but somehow they are exempt from this group because
it's 'news'.  i'd like to think that maybe some viewers what this drivel
because they are truely interested in stopping or learning more about hate
and hate crimes, but the only way they can aquire info about it is thru the
"Shootout at the OK Coral" specials.....


i don't know, maybe i'm putting to much faith in humanity.... 'cops' and
'when (insert plural noun here) attack' are both doing pretty well still on
fox right? oh well, never mind...


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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:01:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Walton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cage/Legeti

The legeti piece I cant think of the name of.  Its
something in the vein of crumb's "Threnody" which Im
looking for by Kronos, anyone know where I can find
that?

Jason

> Mode has a bunch of Cage's Prepared Piano works
> available and Wergo has a
> fine series of them as well.  Is The Legeti piece
> you mention the one for
> Poeme Symphonic for 100 Metronomes?  That one is
> great and pretty easy to
> find, Try Mechanical Music on Sony. Legeti Edition
> 5.  john
>
> -
>
>

===
Nothing / Eibon Records America
P.O. Box 14121
Minneapolis, MN 55414
[e-mail]
http://www.mythosmedia.com/nothing
http://www.thais.it/eibon
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:04:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jason Walton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Why are we so sick?

I applaud your sentiments.  "unrelated" topics like
this are welcome, beacuse they are highly important.
however, if you think about it, its not all that
unrelated with all the Jewish music Zorn and cohorts
make.

Jason


- --- uranus musickness <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Sorry this is not music related. But all of a sudden
> I find myself sickened
> by what I see in the news media and the attempted
> Jew killings in L.A.---
>
> It is bad enough that we have sicko's like Furrow
> loose in society, but now
> we have the news media doing something I fear will
> only help his stupid
> cause. Why do they feel it is necessary to give him
> the gratification and
> editorial time by reporting to the world his sick
> statements?
>
> Do we really need to know that this fuck says that
> this is "A wake up call
> to Americans to start killing Jews?" What the hell
> is their problem? I
> believe in freedom of the press, freedom to own guns
> (a freedom that Furrow
> didn't have)and more freedoms than we have in
> America but...
>
> I draw the line when the news media lets go of any
> decency to put something
> in the paper and on the news in which it's only
> purpose is to sell more
> snazzy and shocking stories.
>
> I pray that because of this guys words being
> reported that we don't have a
> bunch of copy cat attacks. But then, imagine all the
> papers that would sell
> if that happened.
>
> Again, I am sorry for intruding with this non-music
> related ranting!
>
> John Schuller
>
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit
> http://www.msn.com
>
> -
>
>

===
Nothing / Eibon Records America
P.O. Box 14121
Minneapolis, MN 55414
[e-mail]
http://www.mythosmedia.com/nothing
http://www.thais.it/eibon
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:40:59 PDT
From: "Noah Enelow" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #734

Dear fellow Zorn heads,

Does anyone on the list know when Zorn's next coming out west? I live in San
Francisco, CA. I've only seen Zorn live once, at the Texaco-NY Jazz Festival
a year and three months ago. If anyone has tour date information, I'd much
appreciate it. Thanks!

Noah Enelow
[e-mail]


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:08:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Hardcore Punk

In my day, punk music was the Clash, Television, Patti Smith and Buzzcocks
and bands such as Black Flag, Bad Brains, Circle Jerks were derivative.
Today, I see very little new music coming out of that world.  It may be an
age thing, the pace of the music is more suitable to the younger rhythms.  As
you mature, you can slow down, and listen to the space between the music.  Of
course, one could argue, that Zorn is pretty fast paced at times, but its not
the same type of adrenaline rush.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:40:11 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: since i've been gone

I just got back from a couple weeks of sailing in Newfoundland and have
a few things to add to the discussions I've been away from...

My favorite solo violin album is Carlos Zingaro's 'Solo' (in situ). A
beautiful album and worlds better than anything else I've heard from
him. Recommended.

Jon mentioned the hojok sample on the new Ground Zero... If anyone's
interested, those samples are of one of my favorite musicians in the
world, Kim Suk Chul. He's an undisputed master of traditional Korean
music but also has worked with a lot of avant-garde "jazz" musicians
from Japan like Kazutoki Umezu and Tetsu Saitoh. For traditional stuff,
check out 'Shamanistic Ceremonies Of The Eastern Seaboard' on JVC. A few
years ago, a friend of mine gave me a blindfold test with this one, and
the only thing I could guess was maybe a Giuseppi Logan / Milford Graves
duo. Definitely check Kim Suk Chul out and Korean music in general. It's
incredible.

Luc Ferrari... My favorite Ferrari is his soundtrack work to the
animated French film "Chronopolis". Great stuff and, as far as I know,
never been released.... Also in that series of films is "L'Ange" (or
"The Angel") with some good music by Michelle Bokanowski. Both films are
great.

Adelhard Roidinger... I think the only Roidinger I've heard (?) is on
the trio disc with Urs Leimgruber and Fritz Hauser called 'Lines'. I
like it quite a bit and would recommend it. I'm hoping to pick up the
new Leimgruber on Victo soon. Is this the concert you were raving about,
Jon?

Well, that's all.

                -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:54:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: since i've been gone

In a message dated 8/12/99 8:38:15 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I'm hoping to pick up the
new Leimgruber on Victo soon. Is this the concert you were raving about,
Jon? >>

I don't think I ever raved about this concert. it was a nice set, but not
extraordinary, and the poor scheduling of this, then the Clusone Trio, then
Gerry Hemingway's Quartet consecutively in the space of a few hours, is
probably a large part of why none of the three especially stand out in my
memory. I'd be curious to hear opinions on the Victo disc, though, which I
haven't picked up yet.

what I may have raved about was the first time I saw Hauser and Leimgruber,
along with Pauline Oliveros, in the lobby of some tower on the Upper East
Side. I thought that set was pretty remarkable, although I'm sure part of
that was that it was the first time I'd seen them live, plus I was less jaded
at the time.

<<For traditional stuff,
check out 'Shamanistic Ceremonies Of The Eastern Seaboard' on JVC. >>

if anyone knows where to get a copy of this at a reasonable price, please let
me know. since Tom recommended it to me a few months ago, I've been looking
for it both online and off, and haven't turned up a copy yet.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:07:56 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cage/Legeti

On Thu, Aug 12, 1999 at 03:01:35PM -0700, Jason Walton wrote:
> The legeti piece I cant think of the name of.  Its
> something in the vein of crumb's "Threnody" which Im
> looking for by Kronos, anyone know where I can find
> that?

Might you be looking for either Crumb's "Black Angels" (on the
Kronos disc of the same name) or Penderecki's "Threnody for the
Victims of Hiroshima"?

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence     http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:26:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Why are we so sick?

It scares me that there are people who believe in the freedom to own guns,
but me hearing the NRA's side of things doesn't make me change what I
think makes sense. It's cheap sensationalism on the media's behalf but at
the same time I think it's healthy to stomach some of that kind of crap to
create discussion and face the reality of the ways some people think. If
only to make sure that these people's children get educated and exposed to
differing opinions it's better than hiding what's going on. The more
ugly truth we get the better chance we have to make up our own minds,
especially when it comes to judging the biases of the media sources we pay
attention to...
Chris


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 03:19:41 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hardcore Punk

[e-mail] wrote:

> In my day, punk music was the Clash, Television, Patti Smith and Buzzcocks
> and bands such as Black Flag, Bad Brains, Circle Jerks were derivative.

That's an interesting perspective.  Myself, I was in the strange position of
discovering punk rock and prog rock at exactly the same time (late '70s-early
'80s).  I swear to you, I got into Genesis and the Sex Pistols, ELP and the Clash
at exactly the same time.  Yes, I do fully comprehend how twisted this is.
Interestingly enough, the only band of the four I mentioned that I'm still
listening to with any regularity is the Clash, who turned out to have been the
most truly progressive of any of the abovementioned bands.  Most likely PiL meant
more to me than any of the above, and I am happily old enough to have seen Gang
of Four live one time...

But the SST bands of the '80s spoke much more personally to me than did any of
the original punks of the '70s.  And somehow I didn't find them derivative of the
first wave of punk at all, actually... I was pretty blissfully unaware of most
NYC punk (Television, Patti Smith, the New York Dolls) until much later, and most
Brit-punk seemed terribly derivative of Chuck Berry with nasty language added...
(later I'd learn that it was Chuck Berry via ***THE RAMONES***, but not until I'd
seen "Rock and Roll High School" on cable...)

Black Flag was more derivative of the Stooges, but Rollins was and remains in his
own way an original.  And the other SST bands seemed pretty much derivative of
nothing at all, at least at the time I'm talking about (the bands prior to
St.Vitus and Bl'ast, for the most part).

Maybe it's an age thing - for the record I'm 33 - but SST seemed like the most
important label in the world circa 1984-86, and Black Flag was, if nothing else,
the most cathartic thing that happened to me in college.  To this day I lament
having not heard the Rollins/Ginn/Kira/Stevenson lineup on the one chance I had.
I also lament having passed up my one and only opportunity to catch the Minutemen
live far, far more.  And I can't think of very many albums of the mid-80s that
are more important than Husker Du's "Zen Arcade."

Black Flag, the Minutemen, Husker Du... that was the shit, as far as I was
concerned.  And perhaps as much as any of those, the Butthole Surfers (remember
that I'm a Texan).

> Today, I see very little new music coming out of that world.

Perhaps.  Certainly Minor Threat / Fugazi hasn't done much for me just yet.  But
just as to *my* ears the SST stuff was such an advance on the "first" generation
of punk (which, given the "Nuggets" series, has been more than proven NOT to have
been the first generation of punk at all), I'd like to think that there's still
some good shit going on in hardsville, and for that reason I actually do plan to
check out the two bands John recommended (even if by this point in my post I am
beginning to think that I'd like those two bands in a more "retro" sense than
they might like...).

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

NP - Jordan Knight (a "New Kid on the Block") singing a song by Prince so badly
and slowly that I can't even remember what song it is since it's ended and I'm
still typing - please, God, tell me it wasn't "If I Was Your Girlfriend"........
his record producer must have forced him to do it... jeez, isn't this the kind of
shit that drove me to SST in the first place?


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #735
*******************************


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