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Zorn List Digest         Friday, July 9 1999         Volume 02 : Number 705



In this issue:
-
       Re: KISS: Great Jewish Music! (was Some Downtowners go pop)
       rahsaan and al hibbler
       KISS
       Re: rahsaan
       Sentimental Favorites
       Re: rahsaan
       Re: Prevost/Organum
       Re: solo saxophone
       Re: KISS: Great Jewish Music! (was Some Downtowners go pop)
       Roland Kirk
       Re: rahsaan
       Re: rahsaan /introduction
       Re: Sentimental Favorites
       Re: solo saxophone
       Re: some downtowners go pop
       Re: Prevost/Organum
       Re: rahsaan /introduction

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:42:04 -0400
From: "wetboy" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: KISS: Great Jewish Music! (was Some Downtowners go pop)

- -----Original Message-----
From: Robert A. Pleshar <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Friday, July 09, 1999 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: KISS: Great Jewish Music! (was Some Downtowners go pop)


[severely edited 2 b more radio friendly]

as long as we're talkin about great jewish music, we may as well mention the
beastie boys. i don't think any1 else has.


>Let's add:
>Paula Abdul (yuck, yuck)
>Bob Dylan (except for that unfortunate born-again christianity phase)
>Steve Lacy
>Clara Rockmore(although I guess she only played and didn't write anything)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 10:54:07 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: rahsaan and al hibbler

back in my college radio days, there was a rahsaan album with, i
believe, al hibbler, that was great fun. i haven't seen this for a long
long time, don't believe it has been released on CD. anybody have a
copy of this available for a tape swap?

thanks, martin

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 13:01:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: KISS

Hi all,

I for one am giddy that this suggestion has been raised once again. Months
back I confessed to Steve that Ace Frehley was my first fave guitar hero.
And, if memory serves, isn't John Shiurba also a big fan?

Yes, this was my first music love as well (although the explosions, the
makeup, and so forth appealed to my comic book-lovin' mind in a big way).
I went from there to the Bad Brains to the Butthole Surfers, Hendrix,
Sonic Youth, electric Miles, late Coltrane, and outward from there.

And just for the genealogically scrupulous among us, a KISS tribute would
be consistent with the Zorn/Tzadik world as well. The Melvins once covered
"God of Thunder" for a tribute album; King Buzzo is in that Fantomas (sp?)
band with Mike Patton; etc.

Jason B. (who thinks the best KISS song ever is "She")

np: Olivier Messiaen, "Chronochromie"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 14:16:59 -0400
From: "Michael Berman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rahsaan

A few years back I picked up a two-fer put out by EmArcy/Polygram  =
combining  Rip Rag and Now Please Don't Cry.  It was released in 1990.  =
looking at the notes, I remember his cover of "Alfie".  seems he was =
quite the Bacharach fan.

m


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 12:25:03 -0600
From: John Dikeman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sentimental Favorites

I think this has happened to me a lot.  When you are new to something, if
you really get into, it just knocks you flat, you know.  Like, the first
Zorn I got, The Big Gundown, complete freaked me out, and landed me on the
floor.  Well, now I kind of know what he's about, so, when I get more of
his stuff, it isn't as shocking.  Though, Naked City still freaked me out a
bit at first, which I dug.  I really like stuff that freaks me out.
I don't know, that's how almost EVERYTHING is.  I mean, watch a little baby
play for a while.  They find everything as incredible.  I mean, I'll sit
and see some kid feeling a table and get to some degree as much as I get
out of Zorn.  Which is why I which I were still 1 years old, that would
really kick if just staring at the floor and stuff could freak me out the
way Zorn does.  But, it's because it's all knew to them.  So, you try and
figure it out, and listen over and over.
Also, sometimes, you get a CD during a period in your life when something
really great is happening, and, then you love to hear that CD, cause, it
just puts you in that mindset.  Even sometimes with really bad music.  I
had something like that happen with Stevie Wonder, and, latter, I see that
the album, really sucks, but, I like it anywho.
UHURU!!!
john

> This was my first Rahsaan album and while I
> still think it's as good as any, there's a sentimental favoritism
> involved. Other's in that category are Miles Runs the Voodoo Down (a
> song in that case which opened up Miles electric period for me),
> Mahavishnu's Birds of Fire, Duke's Webster/Blanton band, etc.
>
> Do others on this list share this experience? I think the Penguin guide
> selections sometimes reflect this phenomenon in its authors when it
> comes to the 5-star selections. I mean, I love Herbie Hancock's
> "Headhunters" -- I love it to death -- but I have a hard time calling
> it one of the best 30 or so jazz albums of all time. (That said, let me
> add that I think that it gets a crown from the Penguin boys is charming
> -- and I like the charm of the guide. After all, music isn't an
> athletic event.) ... Oh yeah, Zorn's Big Showdown gets a crown too (at
> least in the second to last edition) -- another hint at the "first
> album" (or at least first major album" phenomenon at work....
>
> Or is it just that the music is more potent at the discovery stage for
> the musician (as well as the listener)?....
>
> Martin
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 99 14:08:14 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: rahsaan

>'Bright Moments'' is also a favorite. However, I disagree with Brian
>about "The Case of the Three-Sided Dream in Audio Color" (so-named
>because the 2-LP set had music on just three sides). Modest pickings
>here -- save this for after you've collected most of the others.

Not to quibble and going from memory, but there are a few neato things here,
including a couple of versions of 'Bye, Bye, Blackbird' (on the aforementioned
reed trumpet) and some of Kirk's infectious, imo, pop covers--'High-Heeled
Sneakers', I think? But no, not in the same league as his very best.

> ... Oh yeah, Zorn's Big Showdown gets a crown too

You're referring to Zorn's covers of David Shire's soundtrack to the 1973 Dean
Martin/Rock Hudson vehicle? ;-)

In Zorn's case, the "first" phenomenon didn't do it for me; I thought 'Locus
Solus' was interesting (I know, I know, it's the fave of a few people here), but
I wasn't knocked out 'til the Morricone album. But the phenomenon is decidely in
effect for many others, including the first jazz album I ever bought, Ornette's
'Science Fiction'. To this day, I relisten to it as objectively as possible,
trying to convince myself that I'm just wallowing in nostalgia, that this isn't
one of the small handful of greatest records I've ever heard....but to no avail.
It is.

Brian Olewnick






- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:06:37 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Prevost/Organum

[e-mail] wrote:

> some of the earlier AMM releases (The Crypt, AMMusic 1966, the first disc of
> Laminal) are very dense, but Prevost is always just one element of the mix,
> which inevitably is more varied with the addition of Keith Rowe on prepared
> guitar and John Tilbury on piano. and most of the more recent output of AMM
> (Newfoundland, Allentown, From A Strange Place) could be described as fairly
> spacious and beautiful, at least by me.

Me too. I love AMM's late '60s output, but the recent stuff is absolutely
beautiful. I'd also add 'Before driving to the chapel we took coffee with Rick
and Jennifer Reed' to Jon's list of "recent AMM" suggestions (though he was
probably just too lazy to type out the title!). Aside from the Fat Cat 12" split
with Merzbow (which I've not heard), it's their most recent album and is one of
my favorites.

Speaking of AMM... In his book, 'No Sound Is Innocent', Eddie Prevost mentions a
"forthcoming" Cornelius Cardew biography written by John Tilbury. Does anyone
know the status of this project? Has it come out yet?

> Flayed/Crux isn't really the best Organum or Prevost on disc. I'd suggest
> Loci Of Change (Matchless) for solo Prevost and the compilation Volume 1
> (Robot) for Organum, although I haven't yet heard the one just released last
> week.

Is 'Volume One' really considered the best Organum? I've had this one for a few
months (my only Organum/Jackman disc), and it didn't really do much for me on
the first few listens. I'll give it another go tonight.

I'd also like to add that I think the Evan Parker/Eddie Prevost double-disc
'Most Materiall' is fucking awesome, and I would recommend that as a great
introduction to both players.

listening to: Graham Halliwell / Simon H. Fell - 9 Points In Ascent (Bruce's
Fingers). Finally picked this one up, and it sounds pretty nice (hoping Patrice
won't hate me for liking a bit of improv now and then... )

                -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:13:04 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: solo saxophone

david rothbaum wrote:

> if anyone can recommend a few recordings of solo saxophone id appreciate it.
> i am familiar with anthony braxton, steve lacy, evan parker, ned rothenberg,
> jason dumars, claude delangle and eric dolphy.  id like to check out anyone
> im not familiar with,  jazz or classical etc..

Has anyone heard Urs Leimgruber's solo albums? I liked his trio disc 'Lines'
(hatArt) with Fritz Hauser and Adelhard Roidinger well enough but haven't heard
much else. It seems to me the solo stuff could be pretty nice, though.

                -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:33:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: KISS: Great Jewish Music! (was Some Downtowners go pop)

Robert:

Moe Koffman's fame rests of "Swingin' Shepherd Blues". But around
Toronto, where he still plays, he's sort of a combination of Herbie Mann
and Phil Woods. A whole bunch of respected mainstream players have been
in his band --pianist Bernie Senensky, guitarist Ed Bickert,
bassist/pianist Don Thompson, drummer Barry Elmes -- to name four. He has
also recorded with Dizzy Gilesspie and The Boss Brass.

As for Raphe, considering his wife is Jewish, I wonder where that leaves
him. Does anyone know what ethnicity his children are being raised?

Now Sammy Davis Jr., that's a real concept.

Ken Waxman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:35:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roland Kirk

> Rhino has one of those 2- or 3-CD compilations of Rahsaan out, which I
> haven't heard but knowing the job they did with Mingus and Eddie
> Harris, this would be a good bet (I haven't gotten it because I already
> have most of the cuts on LP -- the only other reason to not buy it
> would be if you might collect all his work individually).

I had this and had to sell it, the sequencing was just so annoying to me.
Too many excerpts and splices (different songs from different albums, I
know they did this at least once on here).  It's like they were trying to
make it into a concept album and took too many liberties.  Also out of
chronological order.

Rip Rig and Panic and Dog Years in the Fourth Ring are both good and cheap
too, for what you get.

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:41:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rahsaan

Martin et. al

Volunteered Slavery wasn't my first RRK, but it still remains my
favorite, especially for the point in his solo on "One Ton," where he
stops playing his other three horns, sticks a nose flute in his nostril
and says: "Ok nose, take it!"

Also, those that have the 2-LP set, "The Case of the 3-Sided ..."
should know that there's actually a fourth side. Insert the stylus at almost
the very end of Side 4. After a while you'll hear a phone conversation
between Kirk and an unidentified woman.

If Kirk had only lived a little longer, he would be even more popular:
universally loved by both the downtowners and the neo-cons.

Ken Waxman

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 17:59:38 -0400
From: Maurice Rickard <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rahsaan /introduction

Hi! I've been lurking here for a week or so, and while this isn't the
thread to mention my Zorn listening history, I'll throw in a RRK
recommendation.

It isn't exactly "out," but I've enjoyed _We Free Kings_ for a number of
years as just pure listening pleasure.  It's more of the neo-con side of
RRK, I'd guess.

I'd never known about RRK until I saw _Sound_ (a film from the '60s) during
a jazz film festival some years back.  It cuts between RRK walking around
London and performing, and John Cage walking around London and setting up
for a performance.  Some people are annoyed by Cage in this; he was just
fine by me.  But having the two of them in the same film is kind of
interesting.


Maurice Rickard                   | "Multimedia will never go anywhere
Designer                          |  until the amateurs take over."
http://www.envirolink.org/maurice |                     --David Thomas



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 15:12:17 PDT
From: "robert ludington" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sentimental Favorites

     for me it was sonny sharrock's 'ask the ages'. i got it on a whim
because i knew he was down with laswel & i was really into Praxis then. i
was probably like 16 at the time, and it just floored me. this was music
that i always knew was out there, and what i thought jazz was all about, but
till that point my only exposure was scofield/methany/etc... i think that
album right there made me put down the guitar and take up drums... i thought
"so *this* is the elvin i've been reading about!"... plus after hearing
sharrock... i knew i'd never get where i wanted to be at.

     unfortunatly i lent it out to someone last year & haven't heard from
her again... she sold all her stuff including that to get pot. man, i'm
still bitter about it. i bet i listened to that at least once a week.... i
was thinking lately about getting off my ass & finding another copy
somewhere....

     btw, are any of his other more rare albums *that* amazing? i also have
"Guitar" on Enemy, which i like, but not as much as the rolling energy of
'Ages.... and yeah, i've heard LAst Exit too, which also blows me away..


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:20:31 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: solo saxophone

In a message dated 7/9/99 3:11:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Has anyone heard Urs Leimgruber's solo albums? I liked his trio disc
'Lines'
(hatArt) with Fritz Hauser and Adelhard Roidinger well enough but haven't
heard
much else. It seems to me the solo stuff could be pretty nice, though. >>

I just played Leimgruber's solo CD Statement Of An Antirider (Hat Art) for
the first time in years after reading Toms' query. parts of it are very nice,
but there's nothing too revelatory.

I prefer his work in small combos (No Try No Fail and Lines), and if you ever
get a chance to see him live, don't pass it up. he was good at Victo '98,
playing with Hauser, Marilyn Crispell and Joelle Leandre, but the set I saw
him play a few years back with Hauser and Pauline Oliveros, in a large, open
lobby in a building on the Upper East Side, was pretty mindblowing. what was
almost more memorable was watching Urs and Fritz hold court in the back of
the Fez during the Myra Melford and Joe McPhee sets later that night, shows
documented in part on The October Revolution (Evidence).

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

NP: Nobukazu Takemura-Scope (Thrill Jockey)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:29:24 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: some downtowners go pop

At 11:39 AM 7/9/99 -0400, Mark Saleski wrote:
>
>but here's a related question: is it, uh, 'common' that people who like
>one type of music (say, smooth jazz) don't like other types of music (
>say, heavy metal)? as implied the above quote....there's no way a fan of
>billy joel would be interested in cecil taylor.

At the risk of being disbarred from the zorn list, I have to confess that
we have a fair amount of smooth jazz in our collection.  I use first person
plural because my wife is more of a smooth jazz fan than I am.
Nevertheless, I have some vinyl that today would qualify as smooth jazz,
but which I considered very progressive rock when I acquired it a decade or
so ago, before smooth jazz was the commercial entity we know today (the
path: King Crimson -> Bill Bruford -> Allan Holdsworth -> Jeff Berlin ->
GRP Records).  And although I cringe when I hear Kenny G, other
practitioners do have talent, and make music which is as easy to listen to
as many ambient artists, and serves quite well as background music for
gatherings of people (certainly a definition of ambient).  I also own a
Billy Joel album on cassette, which is great listening on a long-distance
drive.

So, what kind of music do other people play at parties, small gatherings or
dinners with friends, etc.?  (My first intro to Cecil was actually a friend
who put it on at parties when he was ready for everyone to go home.)

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

It is pretty obvious that the debasement of the human mind caused by a
constant flow of fraudulent advertising is no trivial thing.  There is more
than one way to conquer a country.

- -- Raymond Chandler

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 18:26:13 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Prevost/Organum

In a message dated 7/9/99 3:05:29 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Is 'Volume One' really considered the best Organum? I've had this one for
a few
months (my only Organum/Jackman disc), and it didn't really do much for me on
the first few listens. >>

it's the CD of theirs/his that made the biggest impact on me, but I don't
consider it to be on the same level as AMM, or Morphogenesis for that matter.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 18:33:47 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: rahsaan /introduction

Maurice Rickard wrote:

> I'd never known about RRK until I saw _Sound_ (a film from the '60s) during
> a jazz film festival some years back.  It cuts between RRK walking around
> London and performing, and John Cage walking around London and setting up
> for a performance.  Some people are annoyed by Cage in this; he was just
> fine by me.  But having the two of them in the same film is kind of
> interesting.

I've been wanting to see that video for a bit. An interesting choice of
combination, I'd say... There was also that rare LP of Cage's collaboration
with Sun Ra.

                        -Tom Pratt

listening to: Michael Jackson "Rock With You" (is that better, Patrice?)   (:


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #705
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