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Zorn List Digest         Monday, July 5 1999         Volume 02 : Number 697



In this issue:
-
       Re: Bennink/Bailey
       Re: Han Bennink at Vancouver
       Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #696
       Re: Beefheart box, was Bennink/Bailey
       Re: Young's Well Tuned Piano (harmonic? intonation tuning?)
       Re: Beefheart box
       Record Advice
       Re: Record Advice
       Re: Merzbow
       Re: Record collections/Reviewing
       Dissonant Characters [was Re: Han Bennik at Vancouver]
       Re: Dissonant Characters [was Re: Han Bennink at Vancouver]
       Re: Merzbow
       Re: jeremy toback
       merzbow label release
       Re: merzbow label release
       Zorn in RealAudio
       Ponga (w/ Horvitz & Previte)
       Re: Where's Steve Smith Been? [was Re: shannon jackson]
       Re:  Zorn List Digest V2 #696

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:21:45 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bennink/Bailey

In a message dated 7/4/99 6:43:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< the han and derek duo disc didn't really speak to me. if
you're looking for some new derek plastic, rush out and get the duet with
joelle
leandre that came out last year (sorry i don't have title/label info with me
at
work). beauty. >>

yeah, I'd agree more or less with both of these assessments. the Leandre duo
is called No Waiting (Potlatch).

the Derek/Han duo CD which I prefer to Han is Derek Bailey/Han Bennink (Organ
of Corti). Han was recorded in 1986, while the Organ of Corti one was
recorded in 1972.

if you haven't picked up the new Beefheart box on Revenant yet, save yourself
the 80 or so bucks. the book is unbelievably great, both in terms of content
and packaging, but the music isn't something I'm going to come back to much.
for serious hard-core fans only. borrow a friend's and read the book, though.

damn, it's hot out.

Jon

NP: Paul Panhuysen-Partitas For Long Strings (XI)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 19:32:22 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Han Bennink at Vancouver

In a message dated 7/4/99 7:24:03 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Han is Dutch, and maybe 50, >>

57, for what it's worth. 50 would have made him 15 years old when he played
on Dolphy's Last Date in 1964. being 22 on that date is impressive enough.

<<At one point, Han broke one of his sticks.  He was playing so hard that one
piece of the stick flew out into the audience and hit someone in the row in
front of us.  I mean, like a line drive to her forehead!>>

one of the handful of best shows I've ever seen was the Clusone Trio at
midnight a bunch of What Is Jazz? festivals ago. we were in the front row,
and during the set, one of Bennink's sticks whizzed by my friend's head,
sitting on the end of the row, missing him by no more than an inch. he was
writing on his pad at the time and didn't even notice. just thought I'd share.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 19:44:47 -0400
From: David Beardsley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #696

"Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]> wrote:

> There's a good site at
> http://www-math.cudenver.edu:80/~jstarret/microtone.html which should
> answer all your questions (it's not responding at this moment, but I hope
> that's a temporary situation).  It has technical explanations and examples.
>
> But a short answer is that the current 12-tone scale (aka equal
> temperament) is based on the requirements of keyboard players (where the
> keyboard is divided into 12 equal steps)

...to modulate in to all 12 keys - in tune. Before the time
of 12tet there were meantone tunings and well temperaments
which were designed to to give in-tune thirds and fifths
in *most* keys. Just Inonation gives intervals in tune
with the natural harmonic series (it's always in tune)
and 12tet is always a compromise.

>, but a more correct (or just)
> intonation would follow the mathematical requirements more closely.
> Following from this premise, you can divide the octave up into as many
> steps as you want.  The maverick American composer Harry Partch, for
> example, divided the octave into 43 steps, and built his own instruments to
> play his music.

You can divide the octave any way. Harry used just intonation,
but folks also divide it with temperaments other than 12 like
19 o 31 or 96 or whatever.

And to make this thread Zorn-worthy...

I really love that Tzadik cd Patterns of Plants,
it's much better that the previous Fujieda cd
on Tzadik. Very Lou Harrison influenced.


- --
* D a v i d         B e a r d s l e y
*           [e-mail]
*
* J u x t a p o s i t i o n     E z i n e
* M E L A  v i r t u a l  d r e a m house monitor
*
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 17:14:56 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Beefheart box, was Bennink/Bailey

At 7:21 PM 7/4/99, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>if you haven't picked up the new Beefheart box on Revenant yet, save yourself
>the 80 or so bucks. the book is unbelievably great, both in terms of content
>and packaging, but the music isn't something I'm going to come back to much.
>for serious hard-core fans only. borrow a friend's and read the book, though.
>
Much as I wanted to like the Beefheart box, I have to agree here. There's
some really great material among the 4 and a bit CD's, but it's really
tiresome slogging through all of it. But the book is a great read, I'd like
to see it extended and published seperately. Speaking of which, has anyone
read Bill Harkleroad's book on the Beefheart experience yet?

The Buddah extended re-issue of Beefheart's Mirror Man, however, is excellent!

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 20:51:18 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Young's Well Tuned Piano (harmonic? intonation tuning?)

On Sat, Jul 03, 1999 at 10:59:13PM -0500, * % wrote:
> Thanks Dave,
>   could you or anyone else either explain to me the technicalities of this
> harmonic series (which i don't think i've ever heard of.)  because i'm
> studying intensely in so called "atonality"  and also microtonality.  oh...
> i'm sorry but... intonation tuning?  please try to explain this to me.

Try these: http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/tuning.html
           http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/wtp.html

- --
| [e-mail]          http://www.metatronpress.com/~jzitt |
| Latest Solo CD: Gentle Entropy         http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:22:26 -0700
From: s~Z <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Beefheart box

> At 7:21 PM 7/4/99, [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> >for serious hard-core fans only. borrow a friend's and read the book, though.

Agreed. Serious hard-core fans will have non-stop delight. Just returned
from a vacation with a friend with whom I saw Beefheart live a half
dozen times. We listened to the entire set straight through during a 7
hour drive. Absolute ecstasy. What a documentation of the evolution of a
rare artist. But, again...anyone less than a serious hard-core fan need
not apply.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:31:14 -0400
From: "Matthew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Record Advice

Can anyone recommend/ comment upon the following:

solos works from E. Friedlander or Mark Feldman?

New and Used?



where should one start with John Lurie/Lounge Lizards?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:26:11 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Record Advice

> where should one start with John Lurie/Lounge Lizards?

The first album, self-titled. An amazing blend of arrangement and
improvisation.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 12:34:10 -0500
From: Diego Gruber <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Merzbow

mike patton's ipecac

D

* % wrote:
>
> and what record label will they be releasing this on?
>
>                                                         -samuel yrui
>
> >50 CD boxset the price is $500 I believe. Merzbow - 1930 is great! Mike
> >Patton & Masami Akita (Merzbow) will be releasing a project group Maldoror
> >-
> >She in September.
> >
> >-
> >
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 23:36:15 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Record collections/Reviewing

Ken- you are 800% right with what you've said about music
reviewing/writing.  One reason I do a zine myself is because if I truly
believe in an artist or an opinion or idea, I don't have to get some stupid
bastard to believe that it is something legitimate and worthwhile.  I've
hounded editors for MONTHS about a good idea only to be told to do the
assignment at the last minute or blown off as someone else is given the job.

Like the rest of the music industry, writing is a huge circle-jerk of
knowing the right people and smooching the right butts.  Anyone who ever
tells you otherwise is either sadly deluded or a damned liar.  Sorry to
sound so bitter and negative but it's the truth- people I know who've
worked at this before I was born have much worse stories and are even more
disgusted than I am (if you can imagine that).

Best,
Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 00:31:31 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dissonant Characters [was Re: Han Bennik at Vancouver]

While we're all on the subject of Han Bennink, I'd like to wholeheartedly
recommend the new hatOLOGY issue 'Dissonant Characters' by Han and Ellery
Eskelin.  Having been a part of the process by which these two characters were
first introduced, I earned a "thank you" on the CD.  The liner notes indicate
that the two developed a great mutual respect for one another in their initial
duo performance at the Knitting Factory in early 1997 (this is where my
involvement took place - I got Ellery that gig, on the advice of writer John
Corbett), and it's really exciting to see that this one-time occasion not only
blossomed into a musicial relationship but also has been documented for all to
hear.

But even if I had not been in any way involved, I'd still recommend the disc as
a great example of two musicians who work the outside informed by a deep
knowledge of the inside.  They play freely, but they swing hard as well.

The more I hear of Ellery, the fonder I become.  Just during the last few weeks
I've heard him playing free improvs with Gerry Hemingway and Matt Moran at the
Internet Cafe.  I missed him last week with Drew Gress, but plan to catch him
with William Parker on Tuesday night.  In every such instance I've found him to
be a unique and singular player.  And his hatOLOGY discs with Andrea Parkins and
Jim Black, 'One Great Day...' and 'Kulak, 29 & 30' are both quite exceptional.
(I have to suspect that the Songlines release by the same trio, 'Jazz Trash,' is
just as good, but I've not heard it in a long, long time, as someone borrowed my
copy and never returned it...).

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:06:01 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dissonant Characters [was Re: Han Bennink at Vancouver]

In a message dated 7/5/99 12:33:07 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< While we're all on the subject of Han Bennink, I'd like to wholeheartedly
recommend the new hatOLOGY issue 'Dissonant Characters' by Han and Ellery
Eskelin.  Having been a part of the process by which these two characters were
first introduced, I earned a "thank you" on the CD.  The liner notes indicate
that the two developed a great mutual respect for one another in their initial
duo performance at the Knitting Factory in early 1997  >>

I remember this show as being disappointing, especially because I'm a big fan
of both musicians. but since it was their initial performance, I wouldn't be
surprised at all if the CD is great.

my Eskelin recommendation is The Sun Died (Soul Note), a superb Gene Ammons
tribute record with Marc Ribot and Kenny Wolleson. one of my favorite more
"mainstream" records of the nineties, keeping in mind that my definition of
the mainstream is pretty uniquely skewed.

Jon
NP: The Sun Died

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:25:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Merzbow

On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, Diego Gruber wrote:

> mike patton's ipecac

actually, i believe the 50 CD boxset will be
released by Extreme (in Australia), if it ever happens.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 07:26:21 +0200
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jeremy toback

This is an interesting response i got concerning jeremy tobback

best wishes

stefan verstraeten
- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, July 05, 1999 6:09 AM
Subject: jeremy toback


>well, i can answer yr question, but i have 2 send it 2 u
>directly cuz i am not @ home and my mail will not post 2
>the zorn list. if u like, u can copy this and post it 2
>the list.
>
>i used 2 work @ bearsville studios, where a great deal of
>this record was done. it was produced by craig street,
>correct? melvin was hysterical. the record was recorded in
>the barn and he said, "i can't work here. there's deer
>here." (the studio is out in the woods surrounded by
>nature, wildlife, etc).
>
>craig was really big into the downtown scene. he used
>these guys on tons of projects that he produced. it was
>always the same people. i only worked on it for the 1st
>couple days, then i had 2 go help on the jewel record, but
>my friend scott worked on the whole thing. i worked w/
>craig and danny (the engineer) on another record by jeb
>loy nichols. cyro showed up on that session also. john
>medeski did some stuff on that also. so, the downtown
>lineup is craig's doing.
>
>ironically, i don't know if craig was entirely pleased w/
>how that record came out.
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 07:18:57 +0200
From: "Stefan Verstraeten" <[e-mail]>
Subject: merzbow label release

>From: * % <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Merzbow
>
>and what record label will they be releasing this on?
>>50 CD boxset the price is $500 I believe.

it will be out on the extreme label

www.xtr.com

if you pay 500$ in advance, you will receive a double cd of unissued tracks
by merzbow

best wishes

stefan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:48:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: merzbow label release

In a message dated 7/5/99 1:29:45 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< it will be out on the extreme label

www.xtr.com

if you pay 500$ in advance, you will receive a double cd of unissued tracks
by merzbow >>

this was supposed to be the case if you ordered one in advance a couple of
years ago, but they've stopped answering their e-mails for months now. I'll
believe this is actually coming out when I see one.

I'm not a huge Merzbow fan, although I know plenty of them, but there's a
very common misconception that all his discs sound the same, a wall of
largely undifferentiated noise. this is true for a lot of them, granted, but
there are some that are pretty great electroacoustic music. the ones I'd
suggest are the two volumes of Music For Bondage Performance (Extreme) and
The Prosperity Of Vice, The Misfortune Of Virtue (Che), which is under the
name Masami Akita.

I know I'm going to get massive disagreement on this, but I thought his Victo
concert was actually not loud enough. I heard that's what he thought also.
don't get me wrong, it was still massively loud, and when it ended,
re-entering a world without his overpowering music filling it was pretty
shocking. but I still expected him to push it further.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:01:22 -0700
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn in RealAudio

Hi all,

This week's edition of Mappings, my weekly Internet radio show, presents
five compositions by Zorn created and performed by other players.  Works
include Road Runner, Aporias, Que Tran, Carny, & Music for Children.

<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index.htm>

Hope y'all like it.

Bests,

Herb


Herb Levy
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 12:15:57 +0200
From: Stephen Fruitman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ponga (w/ Horvitz & Previte)

Ponga (Loosegroove Records)

I haven=B4t seen any comments about this terrific record on the list -
veterans Bobby Previte and Wayne Horvitz team up with younger talents
Skerik (on sax and electronic manipulation) and Dave Palmer (keys) and
create a rough and ready, powerful and yet not overpowering mix of avant
jazz and illbient. Not an idle moment or unsuccessfully realized idea, and
there=B4s even a bonus track to rumble you back to your senses at the end.
One of the year=B4s nicest surprises.

Stephen Fruitman




- ---------------------------

Bj=F6rn Olsson,
Inst. f=F6r id=E9historia,
Ume=E5 universitet
901 87 Ume=E5
tel. [phone] fax 143374



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:22:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Where's Steve Smith Been? [was Re: shannon jackson]

In a message dated 7/3/99 12:45:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Can I just take a moment out to mention what a wonder it is to have a
>  girlfriend who's keenly interested in attending Zorn/Frith/Laswell/Lombardo
>  and Cecil Taylor shows with me, who is able to discuss them with me
>  intelligently and vigorously afterward, and who takes me to hear things
like
>  Abbey Lincoln and a recent Vernon Reid-led multi-artist tribute to Joni
>  Mitchell in return?

Stop braggin' already!  :-)  Some of us would settle for a girlfriend whos
into Ricky Martin (or anything else for that matter).

BTW- I'm dying to know how that Joni mitchell tribute show was.

- -Jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 11:16:14 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Zorn List Digest V2 #696

Hello Zorn list. My name is Patrick Brown and I live in Denver. I have been
subscribed for a while here and just "listening" to what's been going on.
This is a really swell list that I hope I can contribute to in some way. I
used to live in NYC from 1987-1991 (going to NYU) and saw Zorn a few times in
that period - best show was probably a spring '91 show of Naked City on the
"Torture Garden" tour. I got into Zorn through Fred Frith (who I learned
about through the Residents and Ralph Records), but really didn't develop
much of a taste for Knit-type artists until 1990, so I missed tons and tons
of phenomenal shows in the early Knit years, many by artists who are now dead
(Sun Ra, Sonny Sharrock, did get to see tom Cora at least once, but maybe
only once if I remember right). Anyway, recent discussions have prompted me
to jump in with my two cents here:

Ken Waxman wrote re: CD collections and reviewing:
<<I couldn't "just write about stuff I liked", which Martin said he did. To
me that may add to your record collection, by not pissing off your record
company source, but it's a disservice to your readers. If averything is an
unqualified rave (like the work of certain reviewers), than everything is
suspect because *no one* maks masterpieces every time out. Sometimes, in
fact, arists you like create a session that isn't that good. To refrain from
warning people abouit it (as well as other,
lesser efforts) you've sentencing them to spend their hard-earned cash on
something that isn't worth it.>>

Just writing about stuff you like doesn't mean giving a rave every time out.
I prefer a reviewer who mainly sticks to what they're interested in so that
they provide me with a body of critical work from which to assess their
opinion. If someone shows me repeatedly that they like and respect P-Funk and
related projects, their opinion on such matters (both P-Funk and funk in
general) will carry more weight than someone who's reviewing the latest pop
splash alongside the new Dave Douglas alongside some Lou Reed reissue. I
admire the breadth of the latter person, but I'd go to the former for P-Funk
advice, especially if, as you suggest, they can make the distinction between
greater and lesser sessions. But IMO, any aritst worth their salt is going to
be worth hearing even in their worst moments, although maybe not owning,
which is where the job of said reviewer would come in. Who knows? The role of
the critic in the larger scheme of things is pretty ill-defined.

Patrick M. Brown
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #697
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