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Zorn List Digest         Friday, June 11 1999         Volume 02 : Number 673



In this issue:
-
       re: ESP
       Non-Zorn: Re: Soup: Again
       Re: more cheap CD site information
       Re: more cheap CD site information
       Blind Idiot God
       Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:01:09 +1100
       Question regarding $4.95 CD site
       Re: ESP again?
       Cold Soup
       TIN PAN ALLEY by The Sidewalks Of New York
       Re: Cold Soup
       Re: Cold Soup
       music zorn likes
       NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review
       Re: NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review
       Re: music zorn likes
       Re:  music zorn likes
       re: Masada/Boredoms articles
       Re: music zorn likes
       Re: Masada/Boredoms articles
       folk, etc.
       Re: music zorn likes
       Re: music zorn likes
       Re: New Yorker interview

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:20:46 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: re: ESP

LT wrote:

>
Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title
through Smithsonian?  Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a
fever dream?
<

You mean ESP titles? As in the '60s avant label? If so, Cadence records
was selling out its stock at $8 each, still had most of them on hand
last time I checked.
www.cadencebldg.com

Martin

np Charles Lloyd -- Voice in the Night (a darn sweet and solid outing
with Abercrombie, Holland and Billy Higgins)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 03:07:50 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-Zorn: Re: Soup: Again

In a message dated 6/9/99 8:58:19 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< not all artists involved are soup... dj vadim (aka andre gurov on
the jazz fudge label) is involved. personally i found both the soup
sampler and broken piano repaired to be a bit of a letdown... although,
i'm more into vadim and his work with ninja tune and such. the material
was a bit too laid back for my tastes >>

In a message dated Thu, 10 Jun 1999, [e-mail] responded:

>agreed to all of the above. I've never heard anything especially
>satisfying from Soup-Disk, although since I believe the 70 minute
>CD sampler is priced at about 2 bucks, you could cheaply check for
>yourself. on the other hand, the Andre Gurov-Revelations Of Wrath
>full length on the aforementioned Jazz Fudge is a really well-crafted
>record, superior to any of Vadim's work on Ninja Tune. something worth
>checking out in a similar vein is the Viennese duo Kruder and Dorfmeister,
>>especially their DJ Kicks mix CD.

Just thought I'd throw in a different opinion here.  :)  I personally
like a lot of the Soup, Shi-Ra-Nui, 360 etc. catalog.  True enough, if
you want laid back, some of the artists are as seriously downtempo as
you can get (which I couldn't seem to get enough of last year), but
others (esp. Jigen, DJ Hati Monji, Weedbeats) can get quite "out" and
abstract with their melange of sounds.  For more of the Vadim/Krush
type of vibe I would recommend Cappablack (their recent 12" feat.
folks from Mandelbrot Set who have worked w/ Vadim), the first Montage,
Ishimitu Prod. w. Masaaki Kikuchi on double bass, the 1st Stone Free,
and the 1st (not the remixes) Ruf Neck Piano.

Oh yeah, also totally agreed on "Revelations ...".  Superb!  The 2nd
Gurov and Part 2 records are also standouts on the label, IMO.  Much
of the material released on JF and K'Boro is top notch UK hip hop.
After the Isolationist & Vadim's 12" with Dilated Peoples, I can't
wait for his next full length.  I believe he's got a track with
Co Flow on there ....

Apologies for so much non-Zorn.


- -Patrick





- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 04:27:23 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information

> Hum... interesting logic. And where does the money come from? Are you
> assuming
>  that the label sells them to the distributors below price?

I would definitely not assume that!

>  At $5 the record, you can be sure that almost no money is made once
>  manufacturing costs and other are paid... I am, of course, talking about
> small
>  labels which press 1000 copies. The big guys could afford to go down,
>  although their running costs are high (and their stockholders might wonder
>  about such altruistic trend :-).

You are right, at $5 a CD, no money is made.. for the person selling the new
CD.  But I gah-RONE-tee the label is getting paid!

Thanks for the heads-up on the "loss leader" promotion.  I had no clue about
such a thing, but now this "Myshop" promotion makes sense.  The retailer buys
the CDs from the one stops just like CD Now, probably paying the same price,
and then bites the bullet and takes a huge loss in hopes that we'll come back
and buy more later at full price.
What marketing wiz (not) came up with this idea?!?  I'm sure theyve sold tens
of thousands of CDs, taking a loss on every single one.  Will I go back?  As
many CDs as I buy, I will always be looking for cheap prices.
- -Jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:30:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: more cheap CD site information

On Thu, 10 Jun 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

> What marketing wiz (not) came up with this idea?!?  I'm sure theyve sold tens
> of thousands of CDs, taking a loss on every single one.  Will I go back?  As
> many CDs as I buy, I will always be looking for cheap prices.

Loss leaders actually do work  in some cases.  The only example that comes
to mind off the top of my head is a supermarket.  They will underprice a
certain desired item (frozen pizzas, soda, cookies, etc.) because once you
make the effort to go to the store to get a deal, chances are actully
pretty good that you'll do additional shopping there.

Paul
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 06 Jun 1999 15:21:15 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Blind Idiot God

Coupla questions:

1) Is the group still extant? There was some discussion here over a year
ago about an imminent album which was unsubstantiated. Anything since
then?

2) What of the individual members' activity? Last thing I heard from
Hawkins was either 'Azonic Halo' or 'Skinner's Black Labs', both pretty
good releases. Katz and Epstein I don't think I've heard of since
'Cyclotron'.

Thanks,

Brian Olewnick




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:01:09 +1100
From: "Lee, Edgar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:01:09 +1100

[an old message I just found in the 'not processed' zorn-list queue - rizzi]


I saw Masada at the Knitting factory in about June 1994. I think I
remember that there was a clarinet player with a crewcut. Kenny
Wollensen drummed that night, and John Zorn was very appreciative of his
playing. Who was the clarinettist?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 10:40:40 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Question regarding $4.95 CD site

I know I can often be dense with this type of thing, but I've found
navigating this site to be a pain in the ass. Can anyone tell me if they know
of a way to be able to add discs to the shopping cart, and then return to the
original list you're working from? For example, if I've called up all of
their Zorn holdings, by the time I click on a selection and then add that to
the cart, I've had to re-enter "Zorn" into their search engine and wait for
them all to be loaded again. Also, is there a way to scan down all of their
jazz holdings, instead of searching by specific artists?

I receive this list by digest and would like to order some stuff tonight, so
if you have any helpful hints, could you please copy your response to me by
direct e-mail (the next digest won't get here before I leave tonight).

Thanks, Dave Royko, [e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:01:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ESP again?

From what I understand just a fever dream.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Lang Thompson wrote:

> Does anybody know what happened to the rumored US reissue of ESP title
> through Smithsonian?  Has that fallen through or been delayed or just a
> fever dream?
>
> LT
> ----------------------------------------------
> Lang Thompson
> http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4
>
> Singapore Film Fest at World Cinema Review
> http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4/wcr.htm
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 11:16:43 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cold Soup

In a message dated 6/10/99 12:45:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< personally i found both the soup sampler and broken piano
 repaired
 to be a bit of a letdown...  >>
i agree with this completely....it makes NO sense to me given the setting and
equipment (and so called talent and vision) that electronic music is created
through  and such, that the vast majority of artists are merely mediocre.
it's a new frontier, and it is already failing at a thorough and musically
inventive discovery.
well thats my bitter cynicism for the minute.
ben

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:28:36 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: TIN PAN ALLEY by The Sidewalks Of New York

    Has anybody (in Europe) seen the following record:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** - TIN PAN ALLEY: The Sidewalks Of New York

  Uri Caine; Don Byron; Dave Douglas; Mark Feldman.

    1999 - Winter & Winter (Germany), 910 038-2 (CD)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks,

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:27:18 -0700
From: s~Z <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cold Soup

Waiter....waiter.....there's a KruciFly in my Soup.

Are any of you familiar with any of the bands on the label 'Ointment?'

(sorry....back to lurking)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 13:15:55 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Cold Soup

In a message dated 6/10/99 11:24:26 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< i agree with this completely....it makes NO sense to me given the setting
and
equipment (and so called talent and vision) that electronic music is created
through  and such, that the vast majority of artists are merely mediocre.
it's a new frontier, and it is already failing at a thorough and musically
inventive discovery.  >>

the vast majority of music in any genre is arguably mediocre. there's tons of
interesting to great electronic music being made, just not on Soup-Disk.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 15:45:32 GMT
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: music zorn likes

1. I read the NEW YORKER article and wondered if Zorn had ever read anything
Kaplan had written before, and why he'd agreed to do an interview with
_him_.  BTW, I found it to be a great intro article, but still...after that
long a silence, you'd think...

2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he
stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning
32,000 records?  Is he that popular?  I mean, isn't it expensive just to
_exist_ in NYC?

3. Finally, I have a friend who might be freak-out interested in that
Islamic music box set mentioned in the article.  Has anyone seen or heard or
heard about it?  And I've never listened to Bud Shank: what is he like?  Is
he West Coast Cool?

thanks in advance,

- ----s, who buys everything Zorn likes, believes everything he reads,  and
worries about his thighs


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:36:51 -0700
From: s~Z <[e-mail]>
Subject: NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/06/11/DD32697.DTL

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:04:24 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: NP Tom Waits In Oakland Review

Waits will be on VH1 this Sunday Night at 10:00 PM, at least in New York.
Also, a review of Messada in todays NY Times on line.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:08:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music zorn likes

Re: Bud Shank

Shank is no Paul Desmond or Art Pepper, but a journeyman West Cost alto
saxophonist and flautist who has had a varied 40 plus years career. He
first came to prominence with the Lighthouse All Stars and was one of
those musicians in the mid-1950s who epitomized that "cool" sound. He
played on a clutch of sessions with the likes of Bob Cooper, Shorty
Rogets et.al. Also he made some sessions in 1953-54 with
guitarist Laurindo Almeida, which supposedly prefigured the Bossa Nova.
Later in the decade he tried to a "heavier" sound. He made
a disc for World Pacific with Carmel Jones, for instance. Later when the
bottom fell out of the mainstream jazz market, he turned out pure
commercial drek -- his hit "Michelle", an album of Lovin' Spoonful covers
etc.

His return to jazz was with the L.A.4 - with Almeida, Ray Brown (b) and
Shelly Manne -later Jeff Hamilton (d) --all top studio musicians. That
was the one time I saw him. I really wanted to see Manne, who was ill and
soon afterwards died, so had to put up with Hamilton. Overall, my
impression was that The band played pretty, MOR
music with a tinge of jazz beat -- I honestly don't remember much of it.

Recently Shank has abandoned his flute (which made him famous) and other
instruments to concentrate on his alto and reports are that he's now an
exceptional bebop altoist (another one[!]).

As for discs, I've never owned one. But it seems safe to say that
something early in his career --i.e. early 1950s and from much later on
- --i.e. the early 1990s on would be best.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:16:34 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  music zorn likes

>2. This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he
>stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning
>32,000 records?  Is he that popular?  I mean, isn't it expensive just to
>_exist_ in NYC?

not to mention all the cds the article said he owns as well. one can only
assume he makes a decent living, if he can afford all that, and afford to
apparently buy the apartment he lives in and the one above it. judging by the
fact that he was allowed to saw a hole in the ceiling of his apartment to
access the one above it, i assume he would actually own them. that can't be
cheap anywhere in the city, even in a walk-up in the village.

>3. Finally, I have a friend who might be freak-out interested in that
>Islamic music box set mentioned in the article.  Has anyone seen or heard or
>heard about it?

i assume this is the set that celestial harmonies put out. 15 cds of music
from various regions of the islamic world (actually i think 17 discs, as two
of them are 2cd sets) great stuff, although i've been buying them
individually and don't have all of them yet. they are available in a boxed
set, though, too, assuming that's what zorn was actually talking about. not
cheap, either way you buy them.

peace,
dave
___________________________________________________________
bill laswell, eraldo bernocchi, mick harris and lori carson discographies at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093/index.html
REVIEWS WANTED
___________________________________________________________


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:45:09 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Masada/Boredoms articles

FYI:

There are two pretty good articles in today's New York Times about the
Masada and Boredoms shows this week.

This might get you there:
http://www.nytoday.com/scripts/staticpage.dll?only=y&spage=AE/genListing/gen
Listing.htm&categoryid=30&glwhat=247&glwhere=Manhattan&glwhen=today&ck=29372
107&version=644030&adrVer=920771229&mwhere=Manhattan&rwhere=Manhattan&rwhat=
233&ver=cg2.1


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 09:48:33 -0700
From: s~Z <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music zorn likes

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he
> >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning
> >32,000 records?  Is he that popular?

He's big in Japan.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:37:10 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Masada/Boredoms articles

There's also an interview with Y. Eye in today's Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/music/features/boredoms0610.htm

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:10:18 -0400
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: folk, etc.

I was browsing the PSF titles at Forced Exposure and came across a disc
called 'Land Of Prayer' by a Japanese "outsider folk" musician named
Inaba Shuji. In the description, Alan Cummings likens Inaba to Mikami
Kan, whom I've really been getting into, so I was wondering if this is a
disc to check out.

I'd also love to hear what recordings people have to recommend by
lesser-known folk musicians from anywhere around the world. Folk music
has been absolutely fascinating me recently, but I haven't payed much
attention to it until now. What records should I be checking out?

And while I'm at it, could someone tell me which of the new Columbia UK
Ray Russell reissues they think is best? I'm interested in picking one
up.

listening to: Joseph Spence - Happy All The Time (Hannibal)

                -Tom Pratt






- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 13:10:23 -0800
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music zorn likes

Ha!

Does anyone have any good urls for upcomming Tom Waits news?
I use http://www.officialtomwaits.com/frame/news.htm but it doesnt seem to
be the source.


>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he
>> >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning
>> >32,000 records?  Is he that popular?
>
>He's big in Japan.
>
>-


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:15:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Holmes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music zorn likes

Not sure if you are serious or quoting Tom Waits, but after two nights of
awesome shows at the paramount theater in Oakland I can say even the
mildest Waits fan must go. It was awesome. Still shows planned for
LA, New York and some places in Europe.
Sorry to be off topic. My joy will overcome any complaints.
Cheers,
Brian

On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, s~Z wrote:

> [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > This may be an unfashionable question, but aside from the fact that he
> > >stole a bunch of records as a kid, how does Zorn have the cash to be owning
> > >32,000 records?  Is he that popular?
>
> He's big in Japan.
>
> -
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:26:17 -0500
From: Eric Saidel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Yorker interview

Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> Let's not get carried away. I made a point of reading the entire article
> today at my favorite no-charge library (standing up at a magazine store)
> and found it pretty much what you'd expect from a slick.

Well, I don't know, Ken.  I finally got my copy today (I'm a subscriber
and I'm geographically challenged).  I wasn't blown away by the article,
but I think it's better than you suggest.

>
> What bothered me was a couple of things. Knowing very little about jazz

Um, no.  According to the list of contributors at the front of the mag,
Kaplan is the jazz columnist for "The Absolute Sound."  I don't know
that mag, but I'm sure that Kaplan must know a fair amount about jazz to
get such a gig.  (He's also the NY reporter for the Boston Globe.)

> (even though the names Ornette Coleman and James "Blood" Ulmer are
> dropped without explanation),

As well as every other name that's mentioned.  It's also worthy of note
that Ulmer's name is "dropped" by Ribot, not by the author.

> the writer seems to buy into the myth that
> jazz was moribund in the mid-1970s, buried under the onslaught of rock
> music.

Yeah.  I wasn't impressed by this either, but I don't think it's such a
transgression.

> He then cites the sort of "downtown" types who Zorn was playing
> along side in lofts as David Murray, Arthur Blythe, Sam Rivers and Julius
> Hemphill. I'm sure any one of them who had careers going back year --20
> or so in Rivers' case -- would be surprised to be appended to a loft
> movement with Zorn as its most prominent practitioner.

Well, Blythe and Murray were exactly what he suggests - young turks who
were transforming jazz (and jumpstarting their careers) by taking part
in the loft scene.  Nowhere in the paragraph you're talking about does
he say or even suggest that Zorn was a prominent practitioner in that
scene.  In fact, he doesn't even say that Zorn was part of the scene.
All he says is that by the time Zorn returned to NYC (from college in
St. Louis) this is what the Jazz scene was like in NYC.  He then goes on
- - in the next paragraph - to say that Zorn "fell in with an esoteric
subset of [rock's version of the jazz loft scene]."

>
> More insidious was the idea that Zorn has somehow "made it" because he's
> able to write melodic classical music that's far removed from his raucous
> "rock" and "jazz" playing. If you notice nearly everyone, if not everyone
> quoted in the article comes from the classical aide of the fence. As if them
> praising Zorn gives him the stamp of approval.

I didn't get that feeling.  He said several times that Zorn was rejected
by the Jazz establishment.  Perhaps that's why he didn't use quotes from
members of the classical "side of the fence."  Of course, a central
theme of the article was that Zorn thinks there is no such fence.

>
> It's this reason that Hollywood movies about swing musicians used to end
> with them in ties and tails conducting large classical orchestras. And
> it's why all the "new" outlets, i.e. The New York Times, The New Yorker, New
> York etc. only give their imprimatur to musicians such as Zorn (remember it
> was the
> NYT's John Rockwell who first praised him) and Wynton Marsalis. They can
> play so-called classical music, their scores are performed by classical
> musicians and ensembles, therefore they are high art. And high art is good.

Gosh, you don't read the New Yorker much do you?  Or the New York
Times.  The Times has Ben Ratliff who has done an awful lot to promote
avant jazz.  The New Yorker has Whitney Balliett who, although his
tastes are a bit conservative for me, has not limited himself to people
like Marsalis, or even people who have received any sort of official
stamp of approval.


> P.S. It would be nice if instead of an occasional sop in terms of an
> article, the New Yorker hired a jazz/new music critic who wrote well and
> knew as much about present day "out" sounds as Whitney Balliet knew about
> jazz pre-1960.

Yes, it would.  (And I know just the right person for the job ;) )

 - eric


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #673
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