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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, April 6 1999        Volume 02 : Number 640



In this issue:
-
       Re: Phil Ochs
       Re: zorn book
       cobra presence
       Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"
       Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"
       Purple Trap
       Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"
       Re: Purple Trap
       Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results
       Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"
       Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results
       Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results
       Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results
       Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results
       Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"
       Re: Where to shop (was Greatest Improviser Poll Results)
       Re: Where to shop (was Greatest Improviser Poll Results)
       Latest CD sale...
       zorn on hathut
       Purple Trap
       About Time

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:18:03 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Phil Ochs

Rich wrote:

>    I especially enjoyed the Ochs vs. Elvis comparison...which
>brings up a question. Does anyone know the title of the Phil Ochs
>tune that Henry Cow used to perform live? I think it begins with the
>lines "Hello,hello,hello, Is there anyone at home"......

It's called "No More Songs".
It was their [Cow's] big final encore piece when I saw them in '77.
I had no idea who Phil Ochs was at the time, so the "uniqueness" of them
performing a piece by Mr. Ochs was lost on me [& probably most of the
audience, who seemed to mostly be out at the bar].

Steve F.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:37:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeni Dahmus <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn book

Is an English translation of the Zorn book available?

Jeni

> On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Julian wrote:
>
> > What ever happened to that book about Zorn?
>
> If you mean the special issue of Materiali Sonori, I have it, and it's
> quite good, especially about his earlier, less documented work. I got my
> copy for, http://www.artists-shop.com/


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 14:43:39 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: cobra presence

i hear there is a cobra group in seattle. anyone in seattle on the list? can
anyone verify this?

~joseph

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:23:09 -0400
From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"

>Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 13:07:43 +0200
>From: [e-mail]
>The Torture Garden material speaks for itself, too (I would really recommend
>reading the book by Octave Mirbeau). And the list goes on.

I would recommend not reading this book if you are looking
for writing of a similar gruesome nature as the painkiller/Naked City
Cover photography.  "Torture Garden" by Mirbeau is tame by modern
standards.  Even as I tried to picture it as a "shocking" 19th century
work, I was still thinking to myself, "I've seen worse than this on
the Bugs Bunny and Road Runner Saturday morning cartoon."  True, true.

Worse yet, the characters in "Torture Garden" are extremely self-conscious
of the supposed "shocking" nature of their actions.  The reader finds
oneself thinking of teenagers who say, "I am so into death!"  True, true
again.  In fact, Mirbeau's "Torture Garden" is silly.  Many time I clapped
my hand to my forehead in disbelief at the excrutiatingly juvenile
characters in that book.  (At least this was the impression I got from
reading it in English translation.)

David "It's hard to beat the one thousand deaths of Wile E. Coyote" K.

p.s.  If you are really looking for some sickening reading, I suggest
"The Consumer" by Michael Gira, formerly of SWANS.  Excerpts are available
online at the SWANS website.  Also, in a much more cerebral vein but along
the same lines, is "The Error" by John Duncan, large excerpts of which appear
on his Website.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:43:16 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"

On Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:23:09 -0400  David Keffer wrote:
>
> I would recommend not reading this book if you are looking
> for writing of a similar gruesome nature as the painkiller/Naked City
> Cover photography.  "Torture Garden" by Mirbeau is tame by modern
> standards.  Even as I tried to picture it as a "shocking" 19th century
> work, I was still thinking to myself, "I've seen worse than this on
> the Bugs Bunny and Road Runner Saturday morning cartoon."  True, true.
>
> Worse yet, the characters in "Torture Garden" are extremely self-conscious
> of the supposed "shocking" nature of their actions.  The reader finds
> oneself thinking of teenagers who say, "I am so into death!"  True, true
> again.  In fact, Mirbeau's "Torture Garden" is silly.  Many time I clapped
> my hand to my forehead in disbelief at the excrutiatingly juvenile
> characters in that book.  (At least this was the impression I got from
> reading it in English translation.)

We might have read a different book... The scene in the jails are fairly
sickening and so is the catalog of tourments applied to the victims.

Although its content might not reach the level 9 on the Richter scale of
gruesomeness, the book succeeds fairly well at creating an unhealthy and
pervert atmosphere (but I still get a thrill at watching Hitchcock's movies).

The book might have been written a century ago, but I do not feel its
age (like I do not feel the age of a J.K. Huysmans's novel). It is not a
masterpiece of French literature, but it stands as a curiosity within it.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 16:47:33 -0400
From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Purple Trap

Hey Folks on the Zorn list,

Review:
Purple Trap (Featuring Keiji Haino, Bill Laswell, Rashid Ali)
'Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of Tranquility, Tangling The
Prayer Called "I"' Tzadik, March, 1999

This is the fifth bass/drum/Haino trio that Haino has recorded with:
Fushitsusha, Aihiyo, Haino/Joey Baron/Greg Cohen, Haino/Barre Philips/Sabu
Toyozumi, and now Haino/Laswell/Ali.
All of these trios have a degree of improv element to them
although some more than others.  The Haino/Philips/Toyozumi is pure
"European Free Improv" sound.  Fushitsusha is more improv around a
previously agreed
melody (stylistically Jazz-like but not sonically Jazz-like).  This new trio
with Laswell & Ali is something of a hybrid between the two "pure improv"
and "variations on a theme" styles.  Haino and Ali can do both styles.  The
problem is Laswell can't do "pure improv".  To my ear, he has no talent
for it whatsoever.  In Painkiller, he was doing variations around a previously
agreed upon melody.  He can do that.  In this trio, Haino and Ali leave
him far behind.  He is using all sorts of the standard Laswell electrical
effects on the bass and it is dull, out-of-synch, and unharmonious.
It's too bad; if the trio had spent a little more time together before
recording, they might have been able to agree upon some rhythms and put
together some more Fushitsusha-esque sounds.  As it is, of the 130 minutes
of music, only a small portion of it features all three members of the
trio performing as a cohesive unit.  (And that small portion is pretty
great...)  Still, if you haven't heard the
other four bass/drum/Haino trios yet, hear them first, especially Aihiyo.

David K.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 13:44:23 -0700
From: Dowdy Jane <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"

> p.s.  If you are really looking for some sickening reading, I suggest
> "The Consumer" by Michael Gira, formerly of SWANS.  Excerpts are available
> online at the SWANS website.

http://swans.pair.com/W/word_G.html

> Also, in a much more cerebral vein but along
> the same lines, is "The Error" by John Duncan, large excerpts of which appear
> on his Website.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~jduncan/error.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 17:25:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Purple Trap

In a message dated 4/5/99 3:52:55 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< Purple Trap (Featuring Keiji Haino, Bill Laswell, Rashid Ali)
'Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of Tranquility, Tangling The
Prayer Called "I"' Tzadik, March, 1999 >>

my two cents on this one, although I've only heard the first disc so far, is
that it sounds like E-Z listening Haino. there are parts where he's downright
wanky, a word I never thought of in connection with him before. and it's not
even recorded especially crisply.

I have little tolerance for virtually anything Laswell-related, and I find
Ali to be one of the less interesting drummers from that scene, but
nevertheless, after the pre-release raves from Zorn and Bruce Gallanter, I
was pretty disappointed. you could even describe large portions of the first
disc as sedate, I'd say.

Ryoji Ikeda, on the other hand, rocked the house this weekend.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:13:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results

Maybe CBS won't record a Derek/Cecil duet, but FMP already did so in 1988.
Apparently Derek wasn't that happy with the outcome, as for CT, I have no
idea.

But maybe CBS should pony up some of its cash to do so. It would be good
to see Bailey recording with a player who is up to (IMHO much higher
than) his standard, and for Cecil to record with different musicians and
more often.

Or CBS could always distribute the FMP catalogue (we'll now all laugh).

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"

Why not just listen to The Velvet Underground's "The Gift" on White
Heat/White Light? In our mispent youth of 30 years ago, friends and I
used to take it to parties, put it on the stereo and turn off the music
track so only John Cale's recitation of the Lou Reed story could be heard.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, David Keffer wrote:
.
> >
> p.s.  If you are really looking for some sickening reading, I suggest
> "The Consumer" by Michael Gira, formerly of SWANS.  Excerpts are available
> online at the SWANS website.  Also, in a much more cerebral vein but along
> the same lines, is "The Error" by John Duncan, large excerpts of which appear
> on his Website.
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:25:40 -0400
From: Don Byrd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results

  The Poll indicates more about the list, I think, than about  improvised music.

  I have no idea how they should be ranked, though Coltrane, Parker, Taylor,
Armstrong, Davis, and Coleman are rightly in the top ten.

  But it seems to me strange that Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Thelonius
Monk,  Bud Powell,  and Albert Ayler aren't even mentioned.  I would want
to include Ben Webster,  John Gilmore, Marshall Allen, Charlie Christian,
Charlie Haden,  Don Cherry, Max  Roach, Betty Carter, Roscoe Mitchell,
Paul Chambers,  Kenny Clarke, Herbie Nichols, Sam Rivers, and Marilyn Crispell
for starters.

  That gets up to twenty-five, if I count right, and there should probably be
more drummers and bass players on the list.  Sunny Murray, Milford Graves,
and Andrew Cyrille had immense impact on the music, changing the time
in wonderous ways (though I suppose the evidence of their immensity is
not readily available in recordings at this point).

                        Don

- --
*********************************************************************
     Don Byrd ([e-mail])
     Department of English
     State University of New York
     Albany, NY 12222
     518-442-4128 (work); 518-426-9312 (home); 518-442-4599 (fax)
     (http://www.albany.edu/~litmag/)
*********************************************************************



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 16:33:23 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results

Hey Ken --

Wow -- i was blissfully ignorant of that session. have you heard it? is
it available? what was the title? and what's your source for FMP stuff
anyway? seems that the last time I tried to track something down on
that label, i kept running into dead ends.

a couple other labels i have difficulty finding are Splasch (Italy) and
Bvaast (Holland). suggestions?

martin

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 18:25:40 -0400
From: Don Byrd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results

  The Poll indicates more about the list, I think, than about  improvised music.

  I have no idea how they should be ranked, though Coltrane, Parker, Taylor,
Armstrong, Davis, and Coleman are rightly in the top ten.

  But it seems to me strange that Coleman Hawkins, Lester Young, Thelonius
Monk,  Bud Powell,  and Albert Ayler aren't even mentioned.  I would want
to include Ben Webster,  John Gilmore, Marshall Allen, Charlie Christian,
Charlie Haden,  Don Cherry, Max  Roach, Betty Carter, Roscoe Mitchell,
Paul Chambers,  Kenny Clarke, Herbie Nichols, Sam Rivers, and Marilyn Crispell
for starters.

  That gets up to twenty-five, if I count right, and there should probably be
more drummers and bass players on the list.  Sunny Murray, Milford Graves,
and Andrew Cyrille had immense impact on the music, changing the time
in wonderous ways (though I suppose the evidence of their immensity is
not readily available in recordings at this point).

                        Don

- --
*********************************************************************
     Don Byrd ([e-mail])
     Department of English
     State University of New York
     Albany, NY 12222
     518-442-4128 (work); 518-426-9312 (home); 518-442-4599 (fax)
     (http://www.albany.edu/~litmag/)
*********************************************************************



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 19:25:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greatest Improviser Poll Results

I've e-mailed Martin separately, but for general knowledge Verge
Distribution in Canada and Cadence in the U.S. do mail order for labels
like FMP and other hard-to-find European stuff. Both have a Web presence
and I (personally) know that Verge provides quick service.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, Martin Wisckol wrote:

> Hey Ken --
>
> Wow -- i was blissfully ignorant of that session. have you heard it? is
> it available? what was the title? and what's your source for FMP stuff
> anyway? seems that the last time I tried to track something down on
> that label, i kept running into dead ends.
>
> a couple other labels i have difficulty finding are Splasch (Italy) and
> Bvaast (Holland). suggestions?
>
> martin
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mirbeau's "Torture Garden"

Why not just listen to The Velvet Underground's "The Gift" on White
Heat/White Light? In our mispent youth of 30 years ago, friends and I
used to take it to parties, put it on the stereo and turn off the music
track so only John Cale's recitation of the Lou Reed story could be heard.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Mon, 5 Apr 1999, David Keffer wrote:
.
> >
> p.s.  If you are really looking for some sickening reading, I suggest
> "The Consumer" by Michael Gira, formerly of SWANS.  Excerpts are available
> online at the SWANS website.  Also, in a much more cerebral vein but along
> the same lines, is "The Error" by John Duncan, large excerpts of which appear
> on his Website.
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 19:50:38 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Where to shop (was Greatest Improviser Poll Results)

At 04:33 PM 4/5/99 -0800, Martin Wisckol wrote:
>
>What's your source for FMP stuff
>anyway? seems that the last time I tried to track something down on
>that label, i kept running into dead ends.
>
>a couple other labels i have difficulty finding are Splasch (Italy) and
>Bvaast (Holland). suggestions?

You definitely need to check out Cadence, www.cadencebuilding.com.  They
carry all the labels you mention.  Their website may not list everything,
but their magazine is full of reviews and carries the complete monthly sale
listings, and well worth supporting.  Every time I've ordered something
from them, it's been at my door within about three days.  They are
knowledgeable and are happy to provide suggestions about new artists.  I've
been dealing with them for years and have been very pleased all the time.



- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 18:28:03 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Re: Where to shop (was Greatest Improviser Poll Results)

Thanks Caleb -- actually, I recently started subscribing, thanks to tip
from the list of Cadence having a sale on Braxton @ Willisau, but
hadn't noticed those labels.... Duh....

Martin

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 22:33:59 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Latest CD sale...

Hello Everyone,
    My latest jazz cd sale is online. Anyone interested in checking out
the list, its at:
http://members.aol.com/meandmrray/cdsale.html  or click here:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/meandmrray/cdsale.html">Cd Sale</A>
    Thanks for the space. Hope everyone is well.

Greg.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 21:25:54 PDT
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn on hathut

Check this out, in preparation at the HatHut HatNow labeL:

121*
Johnson, Johansson, Richter de Vroe,
Schleiermacher & Zorn
_Enfants Terribles_

Completists in the house, rejoice!  Does anyone know anything about
this?  Or has this been discussed already?

- ----s, trying to be helpful, reading mail






Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 12:24:39 +0100
From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Purple Trap

Spent Easter listening to:

Purple Trap: Decided... Already The Motionless Heart Of Tranquility,
Tangling The Prayer  Called "I"

I think its is fantastic, a truly spiritual collection of music covering
a wide range of emotions and styles.

It took Tzadik to produce a Haino Keiji record with a sound quality to
capture all the nuances and a drummer/rythmn section subtle enough to go
with him on the journeys.

Listen together with the new Haino, Cohen and Barron album for a
blissful view of this guys range.

Having said all that I would be interested to hear what others think!


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 Apr 99 08:05:31 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: About Time

     Just got word that About Time will, at last, be issuing several of
     their long out of print albums onto disc within the next two months.
     First five are scheduled to be the two wonderful Threadgill Sextetts,
     the great Breuker Kollektief album, Hopkins/Diedre Murray and Joe
     Morris' 'Raquet Club'.

     Brian Olewnick




- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #640
*******************************


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