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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 30 1999        Volume 02 : Number 636



In this issue:
-
       jazz/d+b
       Re: Dion McGregor!!
       [Fwd: [boss-improv] David S. Ware-- the early years...]
       Re: negativland book
       Re: Need Help
       Pedernera/Lurie
       Joey Baron Trio/Dying Ground show
       Don Caballero mp3s
       Greatest improviser poll
       Re: Negativland book
       Curd Duca
       Re: Negativland book
       Rules For COBRA?
       Re: Don Caballero mp3s
       Re: Don Caballero mp3s
       Re: Greatest improviser poll
       VINYL/CD Sale - new additions (3.30)
       Pukwana/Feza
       RE: Pukwana/Feza
       Re: Pukwana/Feza
       Re: Pukwana/Feza
       Re[2]: Pukwana/Feza
       Re: Negativland

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 01:48:57 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: jazz/d+b

> Anre there any better d&b/jazz hybrid bands out there? I mean, if Soup
> really does bite, I owe it to myself to check out the real undiluted
> deal...

Not exactly a 'd&b/jazz hybrid' (there's other stuff on there too) but
that Orchester 33 1/3 CD on Plag Dich Nicht could fit in this category,
and its definitely recommendable.  The only place tat has it in the US, I
think, is Dutch East India Trading Co., which seems odd to me - why not
Forced Exposure or someone else....

Enough from me,

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 00:49:32 PST
From: "Douglas Clarke" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dion McGregor!!

>From: William York <[e-mail]>

>Speaking of the Lunatic Fringe series, has anyone heard that
>'Self-Indulgent Music' CD that came out last Spring??

I don't have the disk, but I wonder if its the same Mike Boner who used
to be a sideshow at Idiot Flesh concerts. He's pretty freakish. He's
sickeningly skinny, has a seventies bowl cut, and  usually wears a tutu
or something. Between Idiot Flesh's songs, he would play acoustic guitar
and sing sort of Alternative/folky tunes. It was incredibly disturbing.

- -Doug

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 07:32:39 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: [boss-improv] David S. Ware-- the early years...]

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Any info out there?

Thanks ahead of time.

Rick Lopez
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and
Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000
Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc.,  at:
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

***Very Various Music For Sale:
***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html
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Subject: [boss-improv] David S. Ware-- the early years...
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Does anyone out there know anything about Ware in the Boston scene in the
early 70's?

Looking for info on "Abdul Hannan", including possible LP or tapes.

Also the quartet APOGEE, which included Ware, Gene Ashton (Cooper-Moore?), and
possibly Marc Edwards. Don't have any skinny on the bass player. Might there
be tapes existant of this group?

Help out there?

Thanks,
Rick Lopez
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and
Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000
Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc.,  at:
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

***Very Various Music For Sale:
***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html


- --------------1629AF31B5A912254C052E13--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:01:20 +0000
From: nils <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: negativland book

Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Well, at least as far as their latest outings go, their targets (Pepsi and
> whoever the hell the _Happy Heroes_ EP was supposed to be directed at)
> *have* ignored them, and probably with good cause.

Not true.  Pepsi tried to hire them as spokesmen,
or promotional artists, or whatever.  I read a
little thing in Newsweek, of all places, on the
subject.  The salient quote was something to the
effect of "we thought about that for about 10
seconds and decided that it wasn't a very good idea."

- -Nils

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 08:48:56 -0500
From: Peter Risser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Need Help

<<
    Good day!

    Sorry fo no Zorn content but I need your help with the info on the
following records very much.

    Anybody heard these records ??? Who plays on 'em ? What label ?
Dick,Robert "Other Flute"
>>

Nobody plays on this but Robert Dick.  And, yeah, this is one of my
favorite albums of all time.  More classical leaning than jazz, but he does
use improv pretty well.  Dick has developed a series of studies for
extended flute, which include multi-phonics, circular breathing and more,
and he showcases them all on this disc.  It includes a version of Dolphy's
Gazzelloni (sp?), Varese's Density 21.5, and a Paganini Caprricio (I think,
I'm doing this from memory) all done on the flute, not to mention several
of his own great pieces.

If you like classical-based stuff, flute or good structured improv, you'll
probably dig this disk.

Peter

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 99 12:21:26 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Pedernera/Lurie

Hi Zornheads!

I think most of you have listened to bandoneon player Alfredo Pedernera
as a collaborator in Evan Lurie's music; my question is:
Is he active right now? Anybody have any information on his origin? Any
other information?

You can email me privately.

Thanks in advance.

Hugo.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:16:29 -0800
From: "ADM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joey Baron Trio/Dying Ground show

Hello

First, I was wondering if anyone caught the recent Joey Baron Trio at the KF
a couple weeks ago.  Anyone care to share some details?  I don't get to hear
them until august when they are playing a west coast show.  Second, was
anyone on the list planning on taping the upcoming Dying Ground show on
tuesday w/ Trey Spruance making a guest appearance?  If so, I'd appreciate a
private email so we might be able to arrange a trade.  Thanks.

- -Aaron


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 12:23:30 -0600
From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Don Caballero mp3s

Could whomever posted about the live Don Caballero mp3s please email me the
link again?  I lost it.  Thanks.

Dan Hewins



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 09:54:25 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Greatest improviser poll

Zornlist Greatest Improvisor of the 20th Century Poll

(Reminder of deadline: Sat. April 3, 11:59 p.m. PST)

The Zornlist leaves no nook, cranny or rock unexplored in its search
for fresh sounds. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, who does
the list think really rules as an IMPROVISER in the 20th century?
Response has been modest so far -- hoping you'll participate so we can
get a reasonable sampling of opinion. Here's how:

List your top five choices, numbered 1-5. No.1=5 points; No. 2=4
points;etc. Denote ties thusly:
1. Buddy Bolden
2. Blind Willie Johnson
2. Eye
4. Eddie Cleanhead Vinson
5. Eddie Hazel

Multiple listings of the same player on the same post will be
disregarded. Ballots of less than five musicians are welcomed. Vote
once. Void where prohibited.

I don't know about you, but I sometimes make a distinction between
"greatest" and "favorite."

Please include the word "poll" in the subject line of your ballot. Post
to:

[e-mail]

I'll post one more reminder later in the week, then post the results
next week.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 99 14:22:13 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Negativland book

Patrice said:

>PS: not to mention that without U2, nobody would even know what
>Negativland is.

Just think, without Negativland, none of us would be talking about U2.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:36:31 -0500
From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Curd Duca

Just picked up the 3LP Modulation and Transformation IV comp on
Mille Plateaux.  Volume IV, like Volume III, features a very fine
track by a band called Curd Duca.  I have read some of the Curd
Duca related information available on web.  I am looking for
recommendations on full length albums by Curd Duca.  I guess these
records are available:
"Easy Listening vol 1-5"  "Switched on Wagner (Minimalistic Mood)"
"Elevator"  "Elevator 2"

Thanks.
David K.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 16:39:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Negativland book

sounds good, doesn't it.

Ken waxman
[e-mail]



On Mon, 29 Mar 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Patrice said:
>
> >PS: not to mention that without U2, nobody would even know what
> >Negativland is.
>
> Just think, without Negativland, none of us would be talking about U2.
>
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 01:34:20 GMT
From: "johnnnnn schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rules For COBRA?

Can anyone tell me what the rules for Cobra are? If you don't know, can
you tell me where to find them?

johnnnnn
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 02:22:43 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Don Caballero mp3s

Dan Hewins wrote:

> Could whomever posted about the live Don Caballero mp3s please email me the
> link again?  I lost it.  Thanks.

http://ivy.artificial.com/music/doncab/

Haven't downloaded anything yet myself...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 05:54:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Don Caballero mp3s

In a message dated 3/30/99 2:24:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< > Could whomever posted about the live Don Caballero mp3s please email me
the
 > link again?  I lost it.  Thanks.

 http://ivy.artificial.com/music/doncab/

 Haven't downloaded anything yet myself...
  >>

My compliments to who first posted this site.  I've downloaded all of it- 11
files totaling up close to an hour's worth of music.  Great sound too.

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:02:02 +0200 (WET)
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Greatest improviser poll

1. Ganelin
2. John Coltrane
3. Ornette Coleman
4. Keith Jarrett
5. John Zorn

On Mon, 29 Mar 1999, Martin Wisckol wrote:

>
> Zornlist Greatest Improvisor of the 20th Century Poll
>
> (Reminder of deadline: Sat. April 3, 11:59 p.m. PST)
>
> The Zornlist leaves no nook, cranny or rock unexplored in its search
> for fresh sounds. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, who does
> the list think really rules as an IMPROVISER in the 20th century?
> Response has been modest so far -- hoping you'll participate so we can
> get a reasonable sampling of opinion. Here's how:
>
> List your top five choices, numbered 1-5. No.1=5 points; No. 2=4
> points;etc. Denote ties thusly:
> 1. Buddy Bolden
> 2. Blind Willie Johnson
> 2. Eye
> 4. Eddie Cleanhead Vinson
> 5. Eddie Hazel
>
> Multiple listings of the same player on the same post will be
> disregarded. Ballots of less than five musicians are welcomed. Vote
> once. Void where prohibited.
>
> I don't know about you, but I sometimes make a distinction between
> "greatest" and "favorite."
>
> Please include the word "poll" in the subject line of your ballot. Post
> to:
>
> [e-mail]
>
> I'll post one more reminder later in the week, then post the results
> next week.
>
> -
>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 09:20:42 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: VINYL/CD Sale - new additions (3.30)

Hello,

Please pardon the intrusion & cross-posting ...

I've got some items FS that some on this list may
be interested in.  Artists include Clock DVA, DCD,
Delphium, Eraldo Bernocchi, Gerogerigegege, Masonna,
(lots of) Merzbow, Nimrod, Porter Ricks, Rehberg & Bauer,
Scanner/Shea, Whitehouse & many others.

Check out the URL at the bottom of this message or
email me for a copy if you're browser challenged.


- -Patrick
[e-mail]
http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 99 15:40:44 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Pukwana/Feza

     Aside from 'In the Townships' and 'Diamond Express', does anyone know
     of any Pukwana-led albums that are currently available? Likewise, are
     there any Mongezi Feza led sessions around?

     Thanks,

     Brian Olewnick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:11:14 -0500
From: "Sean Terwilliger" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Pukwana/Feza

> does anyone know
>      of any Pukwana-led albums that are currently available?
>      Thanks,
>
>      Brian Olewnick

Cadence has _Cosmics Chapter 90_ on Ah-Um. It's sort of an afro-pop type
deal.

- -Sean


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:24:01 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Pukwana/Feza

On Tue, 30 Mar 99 15:40:44 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
>      Aside from 'In the Townships' and 'Diamond Express', does anyone know

There are few Zila records, but I will have to check at home.

>      of any Pukwana-led albums that are currently available? Likewise, are
>      there any Mongezi Feza led sessions around?

The closer I am aware of records with Feza as leader are (courtesy of Mike
Fowler for his Mongezi Feza discography):

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

013 - REJOICE: DYANI/TEMIZ/FEZA

21st October, 1972

Johnny Dyani - Bass, Vocals; Mongezi Feza - Trumpet, Vocals; Okay Temiz -
Drums, Percussion

13/1    Titles?

        Cadillac: SGC 1017 (UK)
        Album title: REJOICE

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

014 - MUSIC FOR XABA: DYANI/TEMIZ/FEZA

2nd November, 1972

Johnny Dyani - Bass, Piano,Vocals; Mogezi Feza - Trumpet, Percussion; Okay
Temiz - Drums, Percussion

14/1    Titles?

        Sonet records: SNTF 642 (UK)
        Album title: MUSIC FOR XABA

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

015 - MUSIC FOR XABA VOLUME 2: DYANI/TEMIZ/FEZA

2nd November, 1972

Johnny Dyani - Bass, Piano,Vocals; Mogezi Feza - Trumpet, Percussion; Okay
Temiz - Drums, Percussion

15/1    Titles?

        Sonet records: SNTF 824 (UK)
        Album title: MUSIC FOR XABA VOLUME 2

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were also some records by the band Assagai, that features:

    Dudu Pukwana
    Louis Moholo
    Mongezi Feza
    Terry Quayle
    etc

    Needless to say, these have all reached the collector status in a
long time...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:55:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Pukwana/Feza

In a message dated 3/30/99 4:07:57 PM, [e-mail]
writes:

<<  Aside from 'In the Townships' and 'Diamond Express', does anyone know
     of any Pukwana-led albums that are currently available? Likewise, are
     there any Mongezi Feza led sessions around? >>

while I don't have a direct answer to the question, there are a few closely
related discs that are pretty key. there are two Brotherhood Of Breath CDs,
one from 1971 on Repertoire called Chris McGregor's Brotherhood Of Breath, and
Live At Willisau on Ogun from 1973. Pukwana and Feza are on both of these, and
they're both very good.

also on Ogun is a sextet session from 1964 (!) under the name The Blue Notes
Legacy-Live In South Africa 1964. the sextet is McGregor, Pukwana, Feza, Nick
Moyake on tenor sax, Johnny Dyani and Louis Moholo. pretty conventional stuff
when compared to the later output of these artists, but I found it interesting
to hear something from this scene this early on.

In The Townships kicks some serious butt, though. that might be my favorite
document from this group of musicians.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 99 16:25:30 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Pukwana/Feza

        ...

        >Needless to say, these have all reached the collector status in a
>long time...

It figures...thanks for the great info Patrice and Sean. I was doing some
net-skimming and found a few references for Okay Temiz, a name I've heard of
(and have probably heard along the way--I notice he played a bunch with various
Scandanavian musicians) but don't really know what his work is like. Anyone who
can offer a brief description?

Brian Olewnick (having just heard a Chris MacGregor piece on the radio and
having intense nostalgic feelings for Dudu and Mongs, particularly that 'In the
Townships' record)






- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 16:32:47 -0800
From: Al Tabor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Negativland

What is the difference between parody and satire?


> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:58:16 -0800
> From: cd <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Negativland


> In the US, satire is NOT an exemption to copyright infringement (see
> Dr. Seuss Enterprises, L.P. v. Penguin Books USA, Inc., 109 F.3d 1394
> (9th Cir. 1997).  Parody, however, may constitute fair use
> (See Campbell
> v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc., 510 U.S. 569 (1994)).  A subtle
> distinction,
> but very important (as many unsuspecting defendants have discovered).
>
> - -cd
>
> - -
>

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #636
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