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Zorn List Digest        Thursday, March 4 1999        Volume 02 : Number 608



In this issue:
-
       Re: NYT Music Coverage
       Re: cd halflife
       Re:  cd halflife
       Brotzmann/10tet
       Bad CDs
       Laswell new album - ?
       Materiali Sonori compilation?
       Cd playing troubles
       Re: Bad CDs
       Re: Bad CDs (fwd)
       Re: new Shea (another two cents)
       Re: Bad CDs
       Re: cd halflife...
       Re: live drum'n'bass (was Tim Hagans)
       Re: cd halflife...
       Re: cd halflife...
       CD troubles
       Re: Cd playing troubles
       Re: Brotzmann/10tet
       Re: Cd playing troubles
       Re: Cd playing troubles

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:14:19 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYT Music Coverage

Brian Olewnick sed:

> Do you ever get the feeling, as I do, that there are more writers covering new
> music than there are fans of it?
>

Lord almighty- that's probably the most best insight I've seen online in a while!
Something tells me that if this list hired out Forrester to research this, Brian would
be proven right.


> In that sense, whatever I consider their
>   shortcomings to be, I have to be thankful (even surprised) that they're out
>   there in whatever publication, providing air-time for this fairly private
>   obsession of ours.
>

Amen.  Support these publications.  I still say that it's also worth it to petition the
bigger ones to be more broad-minded.

Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:08:44 -0500
From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd halflife

i've wondered about this myself.

my copy of Marc Ribot's 'Rootless Cosmopolitans' has become almost
unplayable.

if you hold it up to the light there are fairly large and irregular
holes in it.

- --
Mark Saleski - [e-mail]    "Everything you can imagine is
real."  -- Picasso



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:11:22 -0500
From: "Heather and Jeff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  cd halflife

I've never had any problem with the CD's themselves and I've got some that
are 12 years old.  I have however been through 3 CD players in that long.
The tracking mechanism wears out and since that costs about $100 by itself I
just buy cheap CD players and replace 'em when they die.

JK
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:25:50 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brotzmann/10tet

Hi all,

Riffing on Brian's mini-sermon here. But as most of you probably already
know, big Brotz is doing some shows with the 10tet in May. I know that
they're playing Victoriaville and also Chicago's Empty Bottle Fest (where
he's also playing with Die Like A Dog). I'm pretty sure the lineup is the
same, the one exception being that Toshinori Kondo is taking McPhee's
spot.

I can't wait to take my private obsession into the public sphere, as it
were.

Jason Bivins


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:46:53 -0700
From: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bad CDs

Well, as you're likely to hear from others, there's nothing you can do. The
actual media within the plastic coating is deteriorating, and you're out of
luck. I'm one of those that believe that the problem hasn't really been
solved only postponed. I buy vinyl whenever I can. As far as I'm concerned
it's all part of the corporate scam which makes us pay more for a product
that costs them less. And if they get us to buy the same thing over and over
again, all the better for the economy. Theirs at least.

yours in zornocity --ds
***Quantum Dance Works***
****http://ic.net/~denniss****


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 17:19:33 +0200
From: Blind <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell new album - ?

Some extra information about the upcoming Laswell album on Tzadik?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 09:30:05 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Materiali Sonori compilation?

    Just heard about the following compilation:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

050 - ALTERNATIVE MEDITATIONS VOL.2: various artists

  This record features Bill Laswell, Jah Wobble, Brian Eno, Hector Zazou,
  David Shea, etc.

    1999 - Materiali Sonori (Italy), ??? (CD)

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anybody have it?

    Thanks,

    Patrice (looking for the David Shea info).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 08:46:26 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: Cd playing troubles

RE: Frank's Wild Years problems etal....
I'm having the damnedest time remembering where I read this, some
auidophile article and not being an audiophile I just drew in the basic
concepts. Somebody else can probably provide the specifics. The story
explained that there is a "new" technology for CDs used occasionally
and to take advantage of it you need a player with that technology.
However, this special player will play all CDs and the CDs will play on
standard players EXCEPT OLDER MODELS. Sorry to be so vague. ... Hope
"Cold Cold Ground" finds its way back to your earhole soon! (Although I
don't think this CD is one of those recorded with this technology --
they're marked on the back. I know I'm being real helpful here -- I
don't even remember what the technology is called.)

My problem, which seems to have occured only while in the humidity of
Florida, is that several discs I had flaked. Literally, a piece of that
silver stuff came off. The discs play until they hit that spot. Of
course this happened on a couple of out of print CDs, including a
beloved Nana Vasconcelos.... Anybody else have this problem? Now I'm
back in California and, I hope, my CDs are safe.

Martin

"Logic is the lowest form of magic" -- Cecil Taylor

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:35:57 +0100 (MET)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bad CDs

> Well, as you're likely to hear from others, there's nothing you can do. The
> actual media within the plastic coating is deteriorating, and you're out of
> luck. I'm one of those that believe that the problem hasn't really been
> solved only postponed. I buy vinyl whenever I can. As far as I'm concerned
> it's all part of the corporate scam which makes us pay more for a product
> that costs them less. And if they get us to buy the same thing over and over
> again, all the better for the economy. Theirs at least.

well, finally this happens. i knew it. PATRICE, you asked me why i pressed
my recent release on vinyl? that is of course one of the reasons.
plus: pressing errors are alot worse when it comes to digital media.
i got a cd today which has a pressing error, so it just clicks there and
stops....
people get your old turntables in your living rooms again, that is the
only chance......

BJOERN
www.cityinfonetz.de/homepages/bjoern.eichstaedt/index.html





- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:43:57 +0100 (MET)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bad CDs (fwd)

> I'm one of those that believe that the problem hasn't really been
> solved only postponed. I buy vinyl whenever I can. As far as I'm concerned
> it's all part of the corporate scam which makes us pay more for a product
> that costs them less. And if they get us to buy the same thing over and over
> again, all the better for the economy. Theirs at least.

well, finally this happens. i knew it. PATRICE, you asked me why i pressed
my recent release on vinyl? that is of course one of the reasons.
plus: pressing errors are alot worse when it comes to digital media.
i got a cd today which has a pressing error, so it just clicks there and
stops....
people get your old turntables in your living rooms again, that is the
only chance......

BJOERN
www.cityinfonetz.de/homepages/bjoern.eichstaedt/index.html






- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 13:55:42 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Shea (another two cents)

Shouldn't that be part of Zorn's "Great Jewish Music" project?

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]





On Wed, 3 Mar 1999, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> Any news about a Russ Meyer project by David Shea?
>
>     Patrice.
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:23:42 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bad CDs

On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:35:57 +0100 (MET)  BJOERN wrote:
>
> > Well, as you're likely to hear from others, there's nothing you can do. The
> > actual media within the plastic coating is deteriorating, and you're out of
> > luck. I'm one of those that believe that the problem hasn't really been
> > solved only postponed. I buy vinyl whenever I can. As far as I'm concerned
> > it's all part of the corporate scam which makes us pay more for a product
> > that costs them less. And if they get us to buy the same thing over and over
> > again, all the better for the economy. Theirs at least.
>
> well, finally this happens. i knew it. PATRICE, you asked me why i pressed
> my recent release on vinyl? that is of course one of the reasons.

If you want to go this path, you should have tried 78RPM with the deep
groove. And, why not even trying to restore the wax cylinder technology?

I grew up with vinyls and I am happy to get rid of them (as soon as I find
the CD reissue). Yes I miss the larger sleeves, but I have no romantic
feelings about vinyls.

> plus: pressing errors are alot worse when it comes to digital media.
> i got a cd today which has a pressing error, so it just clicks there and
> stops....

You know, it is called manufacturing errors and it happens once in a
while. Buying a brand new (and expansive) LP import and realizing that
by playing it in store it was already scratched, this never happened to
you? And wobbly records, never seen one? And distorsion (specially in
the region closer to the center) after only 10 listenings, never
experienced it?

Yes, digital technology has some imperfections, but you will have a
hard time to convince somebody that vinyl is the answer...

> people get your old turntables in your living rooms again, that is the
> only chance......

Until nobody will be able to afford one...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:40:30 -0500
From: "Heather and Jeff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd halflife...

It occurs to me that as we continue to find fault in all forms of music
media the only thing left is the musicians themselves.  Go out and hear it
LIVE!

JK
[e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:47:44 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: live drum'n'bass (was Tim Hagans)

In a message dated 3/4/99 1:22:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>
>  Oh, no, not at all!  I quite like the disc, very unironically.  It's
>  actually one of the better jazz/drum'n'bass things I've heard, especially
>  for one originating from the jazz side of the fence.  (There's actually a
>  healthy young "live" drum'n'bass scene swelling up on the lower east side
>  at clubs like Izzy Bar and Shine, with drummers playing tiny little cymbals
>  and super tightened drums at massive BPM to get that sped-up sound!)

It seems to have caught on, in a big way. A lot of drummers are into it now.
A band to check out is drummer Zach Danziger and bassist Tim LeFevbre, who
have a thing they call "Boomish". They play regularly at the Izzy Bar. The
drums are smaller, the cymbals are smaller, but the bass sound is huge.  Some
guys use an upright bass, with something under the strings near the scroll, to
get a sort of muted, faster-decay kind of sound.  Some guys use an electric
with alot of effect pedals, volume pedals, delays, etc, and the reulst sounds
pretty fresh to my ears.  JoJo Mayer also has a regular gig with his group
"Nerve".  I've seen Ben Perowsky incorporate d'n'b with some groups he's
played with (not his own though).  I'm forgetting some, and if theres someone
doing this worth checking out, let me know.
- -Jody

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 11:50:22 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd halflife...

On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:40:30 -0500  "Heather and Jeff" wrote:
>
> It occurs to me that as we continue to find fault in all forms of music
> media the only thing left is the musicians themselves.  Go out and hear it
> LIVE!

Not sure about that. For example, I never go to concerts of classical music
because I don't see the point for a local orchestra to try so hard to deliver
a decent performance of Symphony X by composer Y, when so many fantastic
performances are available. As a result of that, I consider CDs as a perfect
replacement to live performance.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 14:46:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cd halflife...

On Thu, 4 Mar 1999, Heather and Jeff wrote:

> It occurs to me that as we continue to find fault in all forms of music
> media the only thing left is the musicians themselves.  Go out and hear it
> LIVE!

Hmm... let's compare how a CD and a saxophonist, both created today, sound
in 200 years :-)

("I would like to return this tobacconist. She is scratched.")

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 15:12:00 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Martin Wisckol)
Subject: CD troubles

Here's an excerpt from the article I alluded to about "special" CDs.
It's from a column called the Vinyl Anachronist @ ezine Perfect Music
Forever. www.furious.com/perfect (click on articles ... note there are
also archives)

Elsewhere in the column, he talks about other exceptional sounding CDs
(sound quality, not artistic quality) and who makes them, including
gold discs and other stuff I've never heard of....

excerpt:

...HDCD is not an actual label, but a process. HDCD (High Definition
Compact Discs) are specially-recorded titles that work in conjunction
with an HDCD chip that is available on most high-end CD players. You
can listen to an HDCD disc on a non-HDCD player, and it will sound
better than a regular disc. You can listen to a regular disc on an HDCD
player, and again it will sound better. If you listen to an
HDCD-encoded disc on a CD player with an HDCD chip... look out! This is
considered the best that the CD format has to offer, almost as good as
the best analog.

I do not have a chip in my Naim CD player (Naim is an idiosyncratic
audio company and didn't believe in HDCD until a few months ago), but I
do have several HDCD discs and they all sound really good. One
stand-out is Paula Cole's This Fire. Tony Levin's Chapman stick bass on
the opening cut "Tiger" is downright subterranean- perhaps the deepest
bass I've heard yet from CD. If you go through your current CD
collection right now you may find you already have several HDCD-encoded
discs. And you may say to yourself, "Hey, this is one of the
best-sounding CD's I've ever heard!"

Buying a CD player with an HDCD chip might prove a little more
difficult, however. The cheapest players with this feature hover just
under the $1000 mark. But like many new technologies, the price is
coming down, so hold on.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 19:39:18 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Cd playing troubles

In a message dated 3/4/99 12:54:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< My problem, which seems to have occured only while in the humidity of
 Florida, is that several discs I had flaked. Literally, a piece of that
 silver stuff came off. The discs play until they hit that spot. Of
 course this happened on a couple of out of print CDs, including a
 beloved Nana Vasconcelos.... Anybody else have this problem? Now I'm
 back in California and, I hope, my CDs are safe. >>

This is similar to a disk I bought used ( _The Tyranny of the Beat- Original
Soundtracks from the Grey Area_ on Mute.)   There are several places on this
CD where the metal has flaked off and other places were small holes and cracks
have appeared. The weird thing is, the CD plays all the way through- no skips
or dropouts.  And yes- the flaked areas are well into the playing area.
Darndest thing i've seen in a CD...

=dgasque=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 20:10:54 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brotzmann/10tet

At 11:25 AM 3/4/99 -0500, Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote:

>Brotz is doing some shows with the 10tet in May. I know that
>they're playing Victoriaville and also Chicago's Empty Bottle Fest (where
>he's also playing with Die Like A Dog). I'm pretty sure the lineup is the
>same, the one exception being that Toshinori Kondo is taking McPhee's
>spot.

Any online info (schedules, etc.) about the Empty Bottle Festival?

- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 21:20:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Cd playing troubles

In a message dated 3/4/99 12:54:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> My problem, which seems to have occured only while in the humidity of
>  Florida, is that several discs I had flaked. Literally, a piece of that
>  silver stuff came off. The discs play until they hit that spot. Of
>  course this happened on a couple of out of print CDs, including a
>  beloved Nana Vasconcelos.... Anybody else have this problem? Now I'm
>  back in California and, I hope, my CDs are safe.
>

i have never had this problem w/cds. when they 1st came out i heard that cds
were good 4 about 10 yrs. i have plenty of cds that r older than that and they
play just fine. i recently read that cd-rs can last between 75-200 years. i
don't know where they came up w/this figure, cuz obviously the technology
hasn't been around that long. a problem w/some poorly manufactured (read:
sony) laserdiscs called "laser rot" arises when the glue holding the plastic
in place starts to give way, allowing air to get in and i think oxidize the
metal in the disc. on a laserdisc, this results in fuzzy picture and static-
laden sound. sony-pressed laserdiscs are notorious 4 this. maybe this
condition u describe is some kind of "cd rot". like i said, i have never
xperienced it personally, but that doesn't mean anything. i think i'm through
being pedantic 4 the day


criterion info
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/vine/9374


"i am beyond their petty, lying morality..."

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 18:46:29 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cd playing troubles

On Thu, 4 Mar 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

> i have never had this problem w/cds. when they 1st came out i heard that cds
> were good 4 about 10 yrs. i have plenty of cds that r older than that and they
> play just fine.

ditto.

i only have one CD (out of hundreds)
that is causing me trouble and it's kind
of strange. the Carl Stalling Project
disc (volume 1) has been really troublesome
lately. i can reproduce it on two different
CD players and the CD ROM on my computer.
the first track plays ok, no problems,
but the rest are overcome by a clicking
sound that gets louder with each track.
and, i can't seem to thumb through tracks.
the CD player won't let me select track N
or even ff. it just sort of "hangs" there
(i can actually hear the disc stop spinning)
and won't play. the only way is to just
let it play straight through. it's really
very curious. the disc itself looks fine.
no scratches, no pin holes, no oxidization,
nothing. so i'm at a loss as to understand
why this is happening. anyone else have
the same experience with this disc?

as an aside, i remember when this disc
came out apparently the promo edition
(nicer looking disc label art) got into the
market. i suspect mine might be one of
those, but never really looked into it.

> i recently read that cd-rs can last between 75-200 years. i

i've heard much less than that.
the CDR media (esp those cheapie green
discs) doesn't seem to be as stable.
not sure why that is.

> sony) laserdiscs called "laser rot" arises when the glue holding the plastic
> in place starts to give way, allowing air to get in and i think oxidize the

there is also a "disc rot" problem with
CDs. BUT... it is limited to only discs
manufactured by PDO in the UK during a certain
time period. for more details, see

www.soleilmoon.com/catalog/rot.html

and there are probably other websites
with additional information.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #608
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