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Zorn List Digest     Wednesday, February 17 1999     Volume 02 : Number 596



In this issue:
-
       Re:  David Shea?
       ostertag
       Re: Wachsmann
       organic trio feat. william parker & daniel carter
       Masada-like jazz
       (Fwd) Re: Prins
       gustafsson
       Gustafsson
       Re: Prins
       Drew Gress' Jagged Sky
       Re: Gustafsson
       my mistake (although still boring)
       sources for jap avant? (no zorn)
       a newbie here
       Re: sources for jap avant? (no zorn)
       Re: a newbie here
       Re: Prins
       Vatcher was Re: Prins
       a newbie here/ suggestions
       Masada-like jazz/ Pachora
       Re: a newbie here/ suggestions
       Re: Wachsmann

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:01:44 -0800
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  David Shea?

>>> I saw this listed in a catalog
>>> Anybody got this and/or know what its like?
>>>
>>> DAVID SHEA/LAND OF PURE ILLUSION 12
>
>i think this is just a 12" of tracks from 'the tower of mirrors' cd. not sure
>if they're remixes or not.

It is in fact a 12" 33rpm on Quantum/Sub Rosa.  Three remixes of Land of
Pure Illusion and a nearly 9 minute atmospheric track entitled "Breath"
which I don't think is on anything else?  The remixes focus on the
beats...I'd basically forgotten about this record since buying it a couple
years back.  Probably not the most essential release.

Alexander
Radio Khartoum      http://www.sirius.com/~xander/rk

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 17:41:24 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ostertag

Bob Ostertag is at the Harbourside Brasserie, Sydney (along with a bunch of
other experimental-type people) on the 1st of March.

Julian.
http://www.hartingdale.com.au/~jcurwin/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 02:06:00 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wachsmann

[e-mail] wrote:

> << Someone mentioned a Phil Wachsmann/Paul Lovens new release on ECM... I
> haven't seen it around. Is it a Germany only ECM release or what? >>
>
> yup, as is the new Roscoe Mitchell.

The Roscoe Mitchell is in the hands of a lot of U.S. reviewers already as a
pre-release CD in a cardboard package - I've heard plenty of raves from all
over the place.  This is the same band that had me dancing like a fool at the
first Texaco Festival at the Knit.  The Roscoe is scheduled for U.S. release
in March, according to the ECM website, only apparent if you click on the
page for the disc itself - http://www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/recordings/1651.html

No current U.S. release date is listed for the Wachsmann/Lovens or the Maya
Homburger / Barry Guy, but we can hope.  And if we can't hope, we can order
online.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 03:59:55 +0000
From: picnic thisway <[e-mail]>
Subject: organic trio feat. william parker & daniel carter

hello!
i remember there has been quite a lot of exchange regarding daniel
carter in this list (while ago).
i don't know how many of those people live near nyc?? but if you do,
here's a chance to check out mr. carter along with ever-wonderful
william parker (and with another person in the trio. anybody happens to
know who it is?!?) on monday, february 22nd for FREE!!

place: the cooler, 416 w. 14th st. (between 9th & 10th ave.)
phone #[phone], or http://www.thecooler.com
date: (as i said above) monday, february 22nd.
time: door opens at 8:45 p.m. (but i dunno what time 'organic trio'
would perform. there will be at least another band before it.)
admission: free

that's all. hoping it'd help some of you live around here.
p.t.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:16:02 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Masada-like jazz

Last week there was a thread about Masada-like jazz. I would like to
mention Pachora (Chris Speed, Brad Shepik, Jim Black and Skuli
Sverison). It's not especially klezmer, although the Balkan
themes will satisfy those who like an East-European content in
the music.
They just released their second album, and it's fantastic!
Compared to the first one it's much more mature: where the first
album seemed to derive the 'world' content from the jazz tradition,
their second one is much more authentic Balkan music with a lot of
improvized parts.

The only (sometimes) weak factor of this band is the playing of Chris
Speed. To my opinion his sound is too thin. Any comments on this?

Thanks,

Jeroen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:16:47 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: (Fwd) Re: Prins

Forwarded message:
From:     Self <S0821683.letondw.rug>
To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Prins
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:09:43 +0200

Gert-Jan Prins recorded some albums with Luc Houtkamp, a dutch
sax-player and composer of live (interactive)  electronic music. They
have a website:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~xorluc

Jeroen


> Hi!!!
>
> In a concert some months ago, in Stockholm. Lee Ranaldo, saxist Mats
> Gustavsson
> and a Duch guy, Gert-Jan Prins played together. No I wasn|t there. But
> this man
> Prins is said to create sounds out of old radio and television sets.
> I have never heard of him. Has anybody heard of him? Has he recorded any
> discs?
>
>
> Anders
> --
> _____________________________________________________________________________
> Anders Fransson, universitetsbiblioteket, +rebro universitet,
> 701 82 +rebro, Sweden.
> e-mail. [e-mail]
> Phone. [phone]
> Fax. [phone]
> _____________________________________________________________________________
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 10:35:00 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: gustafsson

eric ong wrote:

> Also, Mats Gustafsson's name has come up recently.  I went record shopping
> the other day and saw what seemed to be a new Gustafsson duet disc with a
> cello player.  Nice paper packaging, limited edition I think as well.
> Anyone know what I'm referring to?  Any opinions on it?  Well, I was
> intending to buy it, but I put it down for a second and turned my back,
> when someone else snatched it.  Does anyone have the label info for this
> disc?  I'll confess that I'm just beginning to get a feel for Gustafsson's
> playing, and I think I might need another push in the right direction.

The disc you had in your hands is a duet with cello and trombone player Gunter
Christmann. It was just released so I have yet to hear it.

For Gustafsson, I recommend the duo with bassist Barry Guy 'Frogging' (Maya)
and the solo 'Impropositions' (Phono Suecia). After that, the
Guy/Gustafsson/Strid trio disc 'You Forget To Answer' (Maya) and the
Gustafsson/Guy/Lovens 'Mouth Eating Trees An Related Activities' (OkkaDisk) are
very good too.

Good luck!

                                -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:32:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gustafsson

Hi,

Can't remember who asked about the new Gustafsson, but you're talking
about the latest Okkadisk release with Gunter Christmann (cl/tbn), "One to
(Two)". I have it on good authority that this one is extreme even for
Mats, a dense furrow of Euro-squeaky music. Sounds good to me, but if you
want to check out MG at the intial stages try some Aaly Trio (with or
without Ken Vandermark, whose fave metal band is Meshuggah by the way),
"Mouht Eating Trees" with Guy and Lovens, FJF (with Chicago folks), or the
Music & Arts set with Crispell, Guy and Strid.

On a different note, does anyone out there know what the next batch of
Impulse! New Thing releases holds in store?

Jason Bivins


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:33:13 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Prins

On Sun, 14 Feb 1999 19:06:54 -0500  Tom Pratt wrote:
>
> He's on a good amount of CD's - all on the X-OR label he runs with saxophonist
> Luc Houtkamp (with the exception of the Gorgonzola Legs disc). I have the solo
> NOISE CAPTURE and LIVE IN CANADA '97 with Houtkamp and Fred van Hove. The solo
> disc is a very dynamic organization of sounds from percussion, TV, radio and
> electronics which I would loosely describe as David Tudor meets Trent Reznor. The
> trio disc is a very long improvisation. They're both okay/good... There's also a
> trio disc with Mats Gustafsson and Misha Mengelberg and two CD's with an
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have that one and found the drumming of Prins fairly annoying... This makes me
realize that nothing is more boring than an experimental drummer who tries to play
what he perceives as rock beat. On this record there are a few moments of 2/2 beat
than even a kid in a rock band would never dare to try. As another example of
really boring drumming (from somebody who should know better), what about Chris
Cutler on the last (no comment) John Greaves?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 99 16:07:22 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Drew Gress' Jagged Sky

>Be very pleased to read a review of the first cd, and the name of the
>label

As far as I know it was released by Soul Note. Can't write a review as I
listened to only one track on the radio, anyway it was truly
interesting.

I hope this helps,

Hugo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:33:32 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Gustafsson

In a message dated 2/16/99 11:35:25 AM, [e-mail] writes:

<< On a different note, does anyone out there know what the next batch of
Impulse! New Thing releases holds in store? >>

I'm sure others can shed more light on this than me, but I think that Impulse
and Verve are currently pretty much on hold while their rosters are being
"merged" (read: chopped to pieces). I'm pretty sure there's no concrete plans
for another set of Impulse reissues as of now, although I haven't heard any
rumors about this program being shut down. I'd love to hear any other info
that anyone has.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:50:29 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: my mistake (although still boring)

On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 08:33:13 -0800  "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote:
>
> I have that one and found the drumming of Prins fairly annoying... This makes me
> realize that nothing is more boring than an experimental drummer who tries to play
> what he perceives as rock beat. On this record there are a few moments of 2/2 beat
> than even a kid in a rock band would never dare to try. As another example of
> really boring drumming (from somebody who should know better), what about Chris
> Cutler on the last (no comment) John Greaves?

Like a few of you noticed it, I was thinking in fact of the last Peter Blegvad
record (HANGMAN's HILL on ReR).

    Sorry for the confusion,

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 18:18:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Danny Maurer <[e-mail]>
Subject: sources for jap avant? (no zorn)

Hey all. I was wondering if anyone here knows of any sources (magazine
articles, net pages, books, anything...) concerning Japanese
experimental artists and their relationship to Japanese culture? I'm
doing a paper on why Japan in particular has produced so many "avant"
artists, and any help would be greatly appreciated. e-mail me at
[e-mail].
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 01:51:11 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: a newbie here

ok, ive been on the list for a few weeks now and ive sat here silently reading
i cant take much more now though
what is masada?
what is klezmer?

and what would be a good start for a zorn listener?
and what are some good intense/bold/punk/jazz artist?

thanks in advance

rodrigo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:14:09 +0200
From: Blind <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sources for jap avant? (no zorn)

 http://www.oceanofk.org/artskool/jem/ad.html

This  site by the composer  Nicholas  Kent is  dedicated generally and
only to Japanese artists
and includes frequently updatet discographies and some comments as well;
not a magazine, though.
L.B.


> Hey all. I was wondering if anyone here knows of any sources (magazine
> articles, net pages, books, anything...) concerning Japanese
> experimental artists and their relationship to Japanese culture? I'm
> doing a paper on why Japan in particular has produced so many "avant"
> artists, and any help would be greatly appreciated. e-mail me at
> [e-mail].
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> -




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 03:57:58 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: a newbie here

In a message dated 2/17/99 1:54:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

> what would be a good start for a zorn listener?

in no particular order:
john zorn - naked city
john zorn - cobra
painkiller - buried secrets
zorn/frisell/lewis - news for lulu
john zorn - spillane

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:28:56 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Prins

You're absolutely right about that! Yesterday this was confirmed to
me again while attending a concert of the Michael Moore Trio,
featuring Lindsey Horner and Michael Vatcher. They were playing a
couple of Bob Dylan tunes and in one of them Vatcher *tried* to play
an extremely  simple 4/4. The tunes already were interpreted in a
really boring way, but when even the beat isn't ok, they ask an awful
lot of your attention.

> I have that one and found the drumming of Prins fairly annoying... This makes me
> realize that nothing is more boring than an experimental drummer who tries to play
> what he perceives as rock beat.


Jeroen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:58:26 +0100
From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vatcher was Re: Prins

Now don't anybody dare say something against Michael Vatcher...
after all he played with Zorn! ;-)
so...
- - Discography of Michael Vatcher anyone?
and
- - Who's the worst drummer Zorn ever played with?

Stephane

- -----Original Message-----
From: J.T. de Boer <[e-mail]>
To: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
<[e-mail]>
Date: Mittwoch, 17. Februar 1999 10:38
Subject: Re: Prins


You're absolutely right about that! Yesterday this was confirmed to
me again while attending a concert of the Michael Moore Trio,
featuring Lindsey Horner and Michael Vatcher. They were playing a
couple of Bob Dylan tunes and in one of them Vatcher *tried* to play
an extremely  simple 4/4. The tunes already were interpreted in a
really boring way, but when even the beat isn't ok, they ask an awful
lot of your attention.

> I have that one and found the drumming of Prins fairly annoying... This makes
me
> realize that nothing is more boring than an experimental drummer who tries to
play
> what he perceives as rock beat.


Jeroen

- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 10:15:23 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: a newbie here/ suggestions

[e-mail] wrote:

>what would be a good start for a zorn listener?

I'd suggest:

For fever, noise, screams, sick heavy trash and fun
John Zorn- Naked City (Nonesuch)
Naked City- Radio (Avant)

For jazz alla John Zorn
Zorn/Lewis/Frisell- News For Lulu (hat ART)
Zorn/Lewis/Frisell- More News For Lulu - This a live recording (hat Art)

For a "poppy" soundtrack
John Zorn- Filmworks 1986-1990 (Tzadik)

For a Jewish "Ornetish" juice with amazing melodies
Masada- 6 (DIW)
Masada- 9 (DIW)
Or any other Masada

Getting Heaven and Hell through Masada String Trio and others
Masada Chamber Ensembles- Bar Kokhba (Tzadik)
John Zorn- Filmworks 8 (Tzadik)
John Zorn- The Circle Maker (Tzadik)

Just my opinion,

Happy listening!

Hugo



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 99 11:38:29 -0300
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Masada-like jazz/ Pachora

Jeroen wrote:

>They (Pachora) just released their second album, and it's fantastic

That's right. I second this, after a couple listenings. A truly fine
disc.

>The only (sometimes) weak factor of this band is the playing of Chris
>Speed. To my opinion his sound is too thin.

Don't want to begin a thread with this, but Speed's playing throught
_Umm_ is ok to my ears. Anyway, I don't know what exactly is considered
a woodwind's thin sound.
IMHO, Speed's sound fits perfectly this way.

Just my two pesos,

Hugo

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 10:14:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: a newbie here/ suggestions

On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 [e-mail] wrote:

> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >what would be a good start for a zorn listener?

"Music for Children" gives a good overview, with chamber music, Naked City
material, noise, and other stuff all on the one disc.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 11:52:33 -0500
From: eric ong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wachsmann

Hello, one last addition to this thread.  I got this info from Steve Lake
and thought the list might be interested...

>No current U.S. release date is listed for the Wachsmann/Lovens or the Maya
>Homburger / Barry Guy, but we can hope.  And if we can't hope, we can order
>online.

Just out in Europe is the duo album of Philipp Wachsmann and Paul Lytton
"Some Other Season". The contributions Phil and Paul made to Evan
Parker's "Toward The Margins" were so exceptional that we felt a duo
album was imperative. Lytton's "kit" practically filled the Winterthur
studio - great heaps of multi-ethnic drums and cymbals, scrap metal,
buckets of water, shell-cases, and a tangle of electric wires.  Against
the dangerous sounds emanating from all of this, Wachsmann juxtaposed
his often delicate, immensely accomplished violin and viola playing...

The follow-up to "Toward The Margins"  with Evan Parker's
Electro-Acoustic Ensemble was recorded in England in December. It's
called "Drawn Inward" (palindrome) and is both more "electro" and more
"acoustic" than its predecessor. Electronics manipulator Lawrence
Casserley's been added to the band. Two particularly effective pieces
feature untreated (i.e. acoustic )Evan Parker circular-breathing
multiphonic/multidimensional soprano solos surrounded by the strings  of
Wachsmann and Barry Guy which are digitally mutiplied by the electronics
players - the sound is immense. Like the Evan Parker Symphony Orchestra,
almost.

Apropos Evan - I should also mention that he's shortly to make his ECM
producer d=E9but. EP  was at the controls for the forthcoming Kenny
Wheeler album "A Long Time Ago; Music for Brass Ensemble and Soloists".
This is a rich-sounding album, with beautiful Wheeler compositions, and
magisterial flugelhorn playing.  Those who have Evan pigeonholed as
unforgiving avant-gardist will be surprised by this production...

The next one to be released in the States is the Joe Maneri-Mat
Maneri duo album "Blessed" - which came out in Europe last June.
Nerve-ends-exposed microtonal improvising. Dark stuff. Pleasurably
harrowing is how I hear it, there's a lot of father/son love and
friction running through the music. By now I'm completely addicted to
the melting pitches of the Maneris' soundworld, though - so I'm not an
objective commentator. "Blessed" has been both greatly admired and
profoundly hated - variously regarded as the work of geniuses and madmen
- - by our friends in the press.

Coming out in Europe in May or thereabouts  is "Tales of Rohnlief" with
the Maneris plus Barre Phillips, which is quite different in character.
Much more playful.  One of the nice things is the way that Mat and Barre
meet outside the expected ranges of their respective instruments - Mat
on 6-string violin, Barre on 5-string bass...sometimes it's as if you're
hearing cello/guitar duets. Joe's less than great health doesn't always
allow him to play clarinet (there's hardly any on "Blessed") but we were
lucky with "Rohnlief"; he's in top form. Joe also contributes some
spoken word pieces in a language of his own invention, which I think are
both funny and touching.




- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #596
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