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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #574
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, January 14 1999 Volume 02 : Number 574
In this issue:
-
Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
Info request: BYG/ACTUAL label
Re: Marion Brown
Re: New Jazz/New Improv
amina claudine meyers
Re: amina claudine meyers
Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments
R: New Jazz/New Improv
Re:New Jazz/New Improv
re: experimental vocalists/sound environments
Marion Brown
Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
Some items FS (1.14) ...
Re: New Jazz/New Improv
Re: New Jazz/New Improv
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:50:00 -0500
From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
>
>Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:48:12 -0500 (EST)
>From: Tom Orange <tmorange@julian.uwo.ca>
>Subject: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
>
>just picked up skopelitis' "ekstasis" which i find interesting if a bit
>too glossy. but i'm wondering if someone can help me: i know saw him
>listed with one of the no new york bands but i can't figure out which one
>or how he got from there to here.
>
>similar question regarding marion brown. i taped some songs from an
>album of his that came out on the old arista freedom label (can't remember
>the album's title) capturing a 1967 dutch session -- and i've never heard
>or seen anything else about him or by him since then.
>
>much thanks,
>tom orange / tmorange@julian.uwo.ca
>
I assume the arista record is Porto Novo. It is one of my favorite records.
I really don't know much about Brown, except that his stuff is really hard
to find. Impulse recently reissued Three for Shepp, from a couple of years
before Porto Novo. It doesn't really blow me away like Porto Novo, but it
is good.
PN was reissued last year by DA/BlackLion, with additional material from an
album called Duets. One record with Leo Smith, one with synth player
Elliott Shwartz. The PN reissue has the Smith material, which is
definitely the better choice.
Impulse Japan put out a couple of Brown CDs two or three years ago, more
late 60s/early 70s material I believe. Never saw them around (which is
probably a good thing because I can't afford Japanese imports)
BTW, Tom, nice to see another Londoner on the list. Tune in to my two hours
on CHRW, Thursdays 1-3. I'm the guy who plays jazz (very broadly defined)
made after 1965.
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:38:00 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Info request: BYG/ACTUAL label
Does anyone know of a BYG/ACTUAL label discography on the 'Net?
Thanks in advance...
=dgasque=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:47:14 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: Marion Brown
Dan Given wrote:
> Impulse Japan put out a couple of Brown CDs two or three years ago, more
> late 60s/early 70s material I believe. Never saw them around (which is
> probably a good thing because I can't afford Japanese imports)
Could those be the 'Geechee Recollections', 'Sweet Earth Flying' and
'November Cotton Flower' trilogy? If so, they're well worth
getting--beautiful stuff. 'Sweet Earth Flying' features the keyboard
tandem of Paul Bley and Muhal Richard Abrams, both in peak form.
Another fine Brown release is a recording of his compositions performed
by Amina Claudine Myers around 1980.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:48:36 -0500
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv
Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> Yes, he has worked with people coming from jazz, but the true question is:
> has he ever played a solo that could be associated to a jazz tradition?
> If you believe yes, let me know because I might have missed it.
I suppose it would be cruel and unusual to mention the Charlie Watts Big Band
;-) and anyway, having never heard it, I can't say whether he ever soloed or
not. But I found Evan's playing in general on Kenny Wheeler's ECM release
"Around 6" to be relatively between the bars by his standard. The exception, or
exceptions (?), to the rule...
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:54:09 EST
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: amina claudine meyers
brian,
u mentioned a record she did in 1980. i have heard a little of her stuff, but
really liked her playing. can u give me sort of a top ten?
btw, anyone else can play...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 22:29:41 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Re: amina claudine meyers
Sulacco@aol.com wrote:
> u mentioned a record she did in 1980. i have heard a little of her stuff, but
> really liked her playing. can u give me sort of a top ten?
Just checked; the one I was referring to is 'Poems for Piano', recorded
7/26/79 for Sweet Earth Records, a really nice album. Brown's pieces
(there's also one selection by Myers) vary from his down-home style to
things in a Satie mode.
The only other thing I happen to have that really features her is the
duo with Muhal on Black Saint, which is also quite good. I otherwise
never picked up any of her own releases, but do remember seeing her many
times in the late 70's at Environ where she led small bands that
oscillated between gospel and free territories (she sang a bit too),
often with the late, great Fred Hopkins.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 23:28:49 -0500
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: Experimental Vocalists/Sound Environments
- -*- I'm hoping someone could help me out by suggesting some names of
- -*- experimental vocalists to me (a la Mike Patton or Diamanda Galas) and
- -*- possibly directing me towards websites or books/articles that discuss
- -*- their techniques.
How experimental are you looking? There are many 'classical' vocalists who do a
lot of experimental stuff, namely those who pioneered it: Cathy Berberian and
Joan La Barbara are two that come immediately to mind. Jay Clayton did a lot of
recording Cage's work, and Philis Bryn-Juleson does a lot of Ligeti and other
on-the-edge avant-garde vocal composers. She and John Shirley-Quirk both are
more of the 'classical' vocalists, but John also does really cool aleatoric
works like stuff by Lutoslawski. But if you want REAL experimental male
vocalists, check out Thomas Buckner, who does a lot with improvisation. I would
say of these, Tom Buckner and Joan La Barbara are the most far out and
improvisatory. Oh, Philip Larson is another baritone who does experimental
music, and was part of the Extended Vocal Technique Ensemble at University of
California, SD. There are probably more, but those are the names that you will
find on recording.
In line with the Downtown folks, Meredith Monk and Shelley Hirsch are the best
known, by far. Shelley has a great style all her own, autobiographical at times
in a rawer-than-Laurie-Anderson kind of way, and a wonderful maker of vocal
noises - and very humorous. Meredith Monk hardly needs much introduction, she's
one of the big names in experimental/avant-garde vocal music. And then there's
Chris Mann and his Machine for Making Sense group...incredible, WONDERFUL
stuff, and hard to get.
<BLOWING OWN HORN>
I'll humbly step aside and say that I personally do a lot of experimental vocal
work, especially around the DC/Baltimore area. A trio I'm in, called Comma,
includes list-member Joe Zitt, and we specialize in improvisatory and
experimental works for voices (and sometimes instruments). We have a CD called
(voices) - info is available at http://www.artswire.org/comma - and several mp3
files up on the web. Anyone email me if you're interested in the mp3s.
</BLOWING OWN HORN>
Now, I've only really mentioned the 'vocalist' musicians doing these kinds of
things, meaning the voice is their primary instrument. Obviously Mike Patton's
voice isn't his primary instrument. Neither is Zorn's, but you hear Zorn and
most everyone else doing vocal work on various CDs. That's one of the wonderful
things about the voice, ANYONE can use it. But it's at the same time a
detriment: ANYONE can use it. I think I would be safe saying that most every
singer I mentioned knows how to use their voice in new and experimental ways
and NOT hurt it. Not everyone who does weird stuff to their voice realizes that
they can be damaging it. And personally I think there's a certain amount of
respect for instrumentalists that gets lost on vocalists because the instrument
isn't "visible" for people to see working.
- -*- Also if anyone knows of musicians who have done experiments involving
- -*- tuning/harmonising/disharmonising objects in their sound environments,
- -*- anything from rooms in homes to factories full of machinery ect, names,
- -*- websites or any info on those artists would also be valuable to me.
Probably the biggest names in 'environmental' sound sculpting are folks like
Pauline Oliveros and Alvin Lucier.
Hope this is some help. And I hope there was enough Zorn content. :)
- --
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | |
| | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:56:52 +0100
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <f.martinelli@comune.pisa.it>
Subject: R: New Jazz/New Improv
>I suppose it would be cruel and unusual to mention the Charlie Watts Big
Band
>;-) and anyway, having never heard it, I can't say whether he ever soloed
or
>not. But I found Evan's playing in general on Kenny Wheeler's ECM release
>"Around 6" to be relatively between the bars by his standard. The
exception, or
>exceptions (?), to the rule...
yes he did and on Lester Leaps In, no less....other examples (not on record)
are the Epistrophy ( I think) he played guesting with ICP during a tour in
GB. Of course, it was Misha's version, so a bit of playing outside the bars
was accepted and encouraged. Misha just arranged the bridge of My Funny
Valentine for the Amsterdam concerts of the Italian Instabile Orchestra...
and you could ask if HIS music is jazz too.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 02:59:10 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re:New Jazz/New Improv
Parker's work on Paul Bley's Time Will Tell, also on ECM, is fairly "jazz-
derived" too, as I remember, although I haven't played it in a while.
more generally, I'd argue that free improv is a descendant of American jazz,
and wouldn't really be possible without it. arguing the difference between a
descendant and a strain and trying to place records on one side of the line or
the other seems kind of irrelevant to me, but that's just my opinion.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 03:52:40 -0500
From: picnic thisway <lefauxhulot@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: experimental vocalists/sound environments
> I'm hoping someone could help me out by suggesting some names of
> experimental vocalists to me (a la Mike Patton or Diamanda Galas) and
> possibly directing me towards websites or books/articles that discuss
> their techniques.
> Also if anyone knows of musicians who have done experiments involving
> tuning/harmonising/disharmonising objects in their sound environments,
> anything from rooms in homes to factories full of machinery ect, names,
> websites or any info on those artists would also be valuable to me.
> Thanks,
> Chris Tonelli
well, it seems that the subject was shifted to 'theremin' talk...
chris, experimental vocalists in your e.g. wouldn't match with mine
(except maybe... if i mention 'yamantaka/yamatsuka eye', it'd ring to
you?! he's rather an over-all great'n'obscure vocalist to me.) but
here's some: shelly hirsch - for her ever-extreme range of
interpretation solely by her voice... she's, of course, one of tzadik
staple.
and recent christina wheeler... her way of manipulating her voice with
sampled beats/texture is rather beautiful. she also uses theremin! (btw.
the documentary on theremin, was _excellent_!)
here's her description for her 'tonic' appearence, last year:
>Christina Wheeler wields a vast array of electronic sound sources to
>genre-defying effect.
>>Expect to hear improvised singing through a variety of electronic
>>effects, layered sound loops created live, beautifully messy sampler
>>playing, all accompanied by phat grooves and beats. She may even play her
>>theremin with her head!
and... for those who became curious about her perf. and happens to be in
ny area, i just received her e-mail release for her FREE show tomorrow
(eh... today!)
>This week:
>Thursday, January 14, 1999, 11:00pm, Christina Wheeler at
>The Living Room, 84 Stanton Street (corner of Allen), no cover
>
as for sound environments... again, i'm not so sure what you actually
want since your description only shows within
tuning/harmonization/de-harmonization kinda thing.
there are many, many events attempting transforming any given
environments into something else by sound/sculpture/visual
images/lighting/no lighting... sound can be: performed sound/prepared
sound &/or unprepared sound/natural sound, with relation or w/o relation
between more than one sound source. the eventer(good one) usually
carefully prepares to create the chances for visiter to
communicate/relate to the environment... (well, should i say they are
parts of the environment?!) or sometimes some prepared gigantic
environmental sculpture(the one i saw was one entire abondoned building
by b. ivanoff) counts on visitors' disturbances.
such event/installation... i unfortunately don't know any other area
than ny... (in ny, williamsburg portion of brooklyn has this place
called 'fakeshop' which is a warehouse hosting various occasional events
incl. such sound environment event... i heard next one's on jan. 22nd. &
23rd?! check in its heavy weight website: www.fakeshop.com) but i keep
hearing so many places executed even bigger scale ones (isn't there
annual one in d.c.?! and some nice'n'weird one in boston?!) in other
part of u.s. & many other countries...
another attempt called 'cloud chamber' (in '97, linking 3 cities) which
i did not see, still has its website up: http://web.aec.at/residence/cc/
so... look around (esp. ambient electronics events tend to attempt doing
them. or art projects.)
and... definitely among the classical artists, 'must check' is... david
tudor (esp. for his 'rainforest' piece?! check
http://www.emf.org/tudor).
p.t.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 07:51:29 -0600
From: John Howard <howard@3di.com>
Subject: Marion Brown
tom orange wrote:
>similar question regarding marion brown. i taped some >songs from an
>album of his that came out on the old arista freedom >label (can't
remember
>the album's title) capturing a 1967 dutch session -- >and i've never
heard
>or seen anything else about him or by him since then.
That would be Porto Norvo (Sp? I am at work) A great trio session, with
Han Bennink no less! Brown has a lot of great stuff out, although not
much is available on CD. One of his Impulse albums has been reissued
and Afternoon Of A Georgia Faun (and AACM-ish set on ECM) is available
again. He is not well th last I heard. Wonderful player, though john
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 09:14:34 -0500
From: "Sean Terwilliger" <terwilliger@deerfield.edu>
Subject: Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
>>> Skopelitis has played on a large number of Bill Laswell produced and
>>> related bands. The earliest reference I have is with Material.
How about the first Curlew album. He's all over that one...
- -Sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 10:22:17 -0500
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Some items FS (1.14) ...
Hello,
Please pardon the intrusion ...
I've got some items FS that some on this list may
be interested in. First come, first served ...
Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within NA.
Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged.
** If you don't like the prices, make me an offer.
* Caspar Br=F6tzmann/F.M. Einheit - "Merry Christmas" GER CD
(Rough Trade/Our Choice) 1994 $14
* Caspar Br=F6tzmann/Page Hamilton - "Zulutime" AUS CD
(Rough Trade/Our Choice/Blast First/Sub Rosa - Subsonic) 1996 $12
* C.C.C.C. - "Amplified Crystal" JAP LP (Endorphine Factory) 1993 $15
* Hijokaidan - "Ferocity Of Practical Life" UK 10" (4th Dimension)
1997 $10
* Maurizio Bianchi - "Symphony For A Genocide" US CD (Tegal) 1994 $12
* Merzbow - "Great American Nude/Crash For Hi-Fi" JAP CD (Alchemy)
1991 $25
Absolutely brutal 70+ minutes of live noise from Akita's
1990 USA tour. Out of print.
* Merzbow - "Magnesia Nova" GRE/HOL CD (Perverse Series/Staalplaat)
1996 $30
In sturdy 5x8" blue cardboard wallet w/ color artwork and 15
page booklet w/ photos & text in English & Greek. Autographed
by Masami and (in Japanese) by Reiko A.
* Merzbow - "Rainbow Electronics 2" US CD (Dexter's Cigar) 1996 $12
* S*Core - "Sediment" HOL CD (God Factory) 1994 $12
In cardboard slipcase w/ artwork. Long out of print.
* Sauter, Dietrich, Moore - "Barefoot In The Head" US LP
(Forced Exposure) 1990 $12
* Witchman - "Nightmare Alley" UK 2x12" (Deviant) 1996 $15
* Witchman - "Heavy Mental" UK CD5 (Deviant) 1997 $5
Thanks for looking.
- -Patrick
pm.carey@utoronto.ca
http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 08:24:38 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:48:36 -0500 Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > Yes, he has worked with people coming from jazz, but the true question is:
> > has he ever played a solo that could be associated to a jazz tradition?
> > If you believe yes, let me know because I might have missed it.
>
> I suppose it would be cruel and unusual to mention the Charlie Watts Big Band
> ;-) and anyway, having never heard it, I can't say whether he ever soloed or
I doubt that I even recognized Evan's sound on that one :-).
> not. But I found Evan's playing in general on Kenny Wheeler's ECM release
> "Around 6" to be relatively between the bars by his standard. The excep-
> tion, or exceptions (?), to the rule...
Hum, his playing is definitely less abstract on that one (also the case with
the Scott Walker and Annette Peacock collaborations), but the best moments
where the attention turns to Evan are his trademark solos. Besides these
"orgasmic" moments, I feel that he is more "filling" the holes.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 13:20:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv
Maybe we're splitting hairs here --but why else would be in a group
discussion like this, if we didn't like to do that -- but I can't see
your insistance on trying to distance Parker and Brotzmann from the
so-called "jazz tradition".
First of all if we're talking about it, we'd have to define it, which
would probably be more difficult than isolating the properties of an
amoeba. Brent's assertion that, if I'm correct, that someone is in the
tradition if he expresses himself and sounds like no one else, is what I
would support. And that's what Parker does as well.
I would agree with Patrice's idea that Parker has never played a solo
that "could be associated with the jazz tradition" if that tradition
only encompasses Chu Berry, Don Byas and Bob Cooper --to pick three names
out of a beret.
But if the "jazz tradition" encompasses people like Anthony Braxton,
Steve Lacy, Roscoe Mitchell and Joseph Jarman, not to mention George Lewis
and Kenny Wheeler, then Parker's solos have been within "the tradition"
for years.
Ken Waxman
cj649@torfree.net
P.S. D'ya ever notice that the only people who really want to be
identified as playing "jazz" are the Dixielanders and the "Smooth Jazz"
types?
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
> Yes, he has worked with people coming from jazz, but the true question is:
> has he ever played a solo that could be associated to a jazz tradition?
> If you believe yes, let me know because I might have missed it.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #574
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