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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, January 13 1999      Volume 02 : Number 573



In this issue:
-
       Re: Sound Environments
       Re[2]: New Jazz/New Improv
       Re: Theramin
       Re: Theramin
       Re: Theramin
       Re: New Jazz/New Improv
       NYC Gig alert
       Re: Theramin
       Re: New Jazz/New Improv
       Re: New Jazz/New Improv
       Re[2]: New Jazz/New Improv
       Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
       Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
       Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
       Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown
       R: New Jazz/New Improv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:30:52 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sound Environments

The theremin was invented in 1923 and was at first not used heavily due to
the difficulty in mastering the instrument, but was rediscovered a few
decades later and used really heavily in horror flicks.  There's two
antennas on it that emit radio waves at an inaudible frequency.  TO play
it you put your hands between the antennas, dissecting the two waves
creating an intersection.  The intersection in frequency is the difference
between the two other waves mathamatically and that intersection then
becomes an audible wave.  The distance of your hand from the antenna
changes the sound.  It was orginally built for use in serious classical
music.  'The Day the Earth Stood Still' is a good example of a sci-fi
flick that uses the theremin for electronic sound effects.  There's also a
gothic-operatic band out of Toronto called Exovedate that uses it heavily.
- -Chris


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 99 14:25:43 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: New Jazz/New Improv

Ken wrote:

>I'm not too sure that Brian writing off jazz because it lacks young Black
>innovators is quite correct since he links it to having jazz as ambient
>music in the home.

Just to clarify: 1) I'm not quite at the point of writing off jazz, I'm
just, long-term, very pessimistic (as if what I think matters). 2) As you
point out below, and I'm glad you did, many, if not most, jazz musicians
arose from the middle class, from black families which were economically
decently off and which held onto cultural values which included a rich
musical heritage. This strikes me as promising soil from which to expect
growth within and furtherance of that heritage. Though the number, both
real and percentage-wise, of middle class black families has been steadily
increasing in the US, at the same time that cultural heritage has, imo,
been gradually absorbed into and drained by the same TV culture that gives
us a Will Smith instead of a Sidney Poitier or a Puffy Coombs instead of a
Duke Ellington as cultural icons. It seems to me much less likely that a
creative individual in this environment is going to choose jazz as his/her
avenue of expression. As I said, I hope I'm wrong.

>Very few of the people who are feverish jazz/improv fans group of with
>that kind of music in their homes. But all of us through trial and error
>and experimentation began by our early teens, finding music that really
>appealed to us, which for the majority of people here was some form of
>jazz. We've stuck with it 'lo these many years (about 36 in
>my case) because we still find the "the new" in it, a lot more than in
>other places.

Sure, hence the Zorns, Laswells, Hanrahans etc. all hyper-knowledgeable,
wonderful musicians who have produced much great music _but_ (and I know
we're getting into definitional hair-splitting here) not a lot of great
jazz (OK, I'll cut Masada some slack). My question is how many black
kids are going through the process you describe? Obviously, I have no
direct way of knowing, but the lack of the steady appearance of young
black musicians in avant jazz over the last 20 years (as opposed to the
Marsalis clan) gives me pause.

>I guess the purpose of this rap, is that we shouldn't write jazz/improv
>off too quickly. It seems to me that there are more and more musicians
>turning towards this form compared to 10, 20 or 25 years ago and the
>cumulative effect of it may create more heart-stopping music.

Hope you're right, but in recent years my heart's been stopped more often
by young musicians from Japan, Madagascar or the Mid-East than by those
in the jazz tradition.

>Agreed that Matt Shipp at 23 wasn't Braxton, but Braxton at six wasn't
>Mozart.

But then, Mozart looked like shit in a cardigan.

Brian Olewnick





- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:07:42 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Theramin

In a message dated 1/13/99 2:30:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<
 I believe you are referring to Clara Rockmore.  Don't forget the beach
 boys' used it on good vibrations (and some other tracks as well), one of
 the more well known songs with a theremin.

 A little more about it:  It was invented in the 10's or 20's  by Leon
 Theremin.  Its sole controls were two antennas.  The player's hands
 proximity to one controls the pitch and the other the volume.  More recent
 models of the instrument tend to have knobs that also let you control the
 baseline pitch, volume, and waveform shape (the original only output a
 sine wave).

 There's a bunch of good theremin pages on the web if you want to know more
 about them (why it works, how to build one, where it's used...).  And I
 agree, they are fun to play!
  >>

There's also a video documentary available from the last 2 years or so about
Theramin, Clara, and the instrument. As much as I was looking forward to
seeing it though, I thought it was surprisingly tedious and boring.

Dale.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 12:37:09 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Theramin

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:07:42 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> There's also a video documentary available from the last 2 years or so about
> Theramin, Clara, and the instrument. As much as I was looking forward to
> seeing it though, I thought it was surprisingly tedious and boring.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
As boring as the instrument itself (I mean, passed the first 20 seconds of
listening)?

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:01:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Martens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Theramin

- ---"Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:07:42 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > There's also a video documentary available from the last 2 years
or so about
> > Theramin, Clara, and the instrument. As much as I was looking
forward to
> > seeing it though, I thought it was surprisingly tedious and boring.
>                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> As boring as the instrument itself (I mean, passed the first 20
seconds of
> listening)?
>
>     Patrice.

I don't know, I think that it's probably a good thing that such an
instrument exists, and if I were an arranger, I'm sure there'd be some
situation where using one would be perfect -- but there's a fine line
between "Good Vibrations" and Lothar and the Hand People, and I
certainly wouldn't want to have to be the one walking it.

==
Eric Martens

"When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to
take your word on that." -- Liz Phair



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:22:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv

Yeah, but in referring to the Europeans, putting Bailey aside, Parker
admits (declares?) that his original inspiration was John Coltrae,
Ornette Coleman etc. and he's worked over the years with many people from
the so-called jazz tradition.


Brotzmann seems to boast about his connection to new Black American music
and has had a long-standing association the likes of Frank Wright,
William Parker, Hamid Drake, Milford Graves etc. I think if you asked him
point blank, he'd probably say he was playing "jazz".

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:24:13 -0500
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: NYC Gig alert

Did I miss the announcement on this? If not... here it is:


Saturday, January 30
Concert at 8 p.m.
Alice Tully Hall
at Lincoln Center
with guests:
John Zorn with Masada quartet Shelley Hirsch
Meredith Monk with Katie Geissinger
William Parker and The Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra
Steve Reich with Thad Wheeler
plus special guests.
Party afterward at the Society for Ethical Culture,
64th Street and Central Park West

Concert ticket - $50
Concert and Party with the artists - $125
Concert, Party, Membership
(includes free admission to 50 Roulette season concerts) -$500
Concert, Priority Seating, Party, Lifetime Membership - $1,000
5 Ticket Package, Priority Seating, Party,
Memberships, CD Gift Package - $5,000
10 Ticket Dinner Package, Contributors Private Dinner
and all of the above - $10,000

After 20 years and over 2,000 concerts in our TriBeCa loft, Roulette is
preparing to move to a new space. We invite you to join us, the
composers who inspired us and those who flourished here as we embark on
our third decade. This evening is both a celebration of and a
commitment to Roulettes support of non-commercial, innovative concert
music. With your help, we can secure our efforts to build a permanent
home for one of New Yorks most vital and adventurous musical
traditions... breathtaking creativity.

$50 Concert Tickets available at:
CenterCharge [phone]
Alice Tully Hall Box Office [phone]
Lincoln Center website: www.lincolncenter.org
Benefit Tickets ($125 and up) available at: Roulette [phone]
Roulette is at 228 West Broadway, NY, NY 10013


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:30:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Theramin

[e-mail], demi-God and Icon sez:
>
>There's also a video documentary available from the last 2 years or so about
>Theramin, Clara, and the instrument. As much as I was looking forward to
>seeing it though, I thought it was surprisingly tedious and boring.

    Good God Man, Are you mad?

    The Theremin documentary is fabulous! The
    narrative is compelling, complete with
    cold war intrigue, a failed love story,
    fabulous footage of Dr. Theremin's other
    inventions in addition to the usual
    documentary talking heads.

    And speaking of talking heads, the acid
    casualty babbling Brian Wilson footage
    was priceless!

    Such entertainment.

    mike


- --
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:37:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, Ken Waxman wrote:

> Brotzmann seems to boast about his connection to new Black American music
> and has had a long-standing association the likes of Frank Wright,
> William Parker, Hamid Drake, Milford Graves etc. I think if you asked him
> point blank, he'd probably say he was playing "jazz".

yeah, just like if you asked the ruins they would say that they played
rock, but it is rock which is very different from buddy holly's rock.  i
was trying to make the positive assertion that you can develop your own
tradition/language within the rubric of jazz and still have an original
voice no matter how disconnected it is from armstrong or ellington - i
think that jazz has that kind of elasticity.
all of the european innovators certainly wouldn't be anywhere without
coltrane or whomever, but the point i was trying to make was that someone
like bailey realized that he could never be a black american no matter
how hard he tried, so it was pointless for him to try to ape coltrane's
music.  and i think for bailey, parker and brotzmann developed a sound
that was distinctly a new tradition within jazz.  and i think that
anytime someone realizes that they have to create their *own* voice, it
propels the music forward.  for example, i've never seen/heard anyone
play guitar like joe morris.  maybe what it takes right now is a complete
disconnection from the tradition in order to infuse it with a new
direction.  joe morris, who is a white guy from boston, will never
experience what it is like to not be able to tour in the south because of
the color of his skin, but he does know what it is like to be joe morris.
i don't think its so much about black or white though, i just think its
about developing a unique voice.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:39:49 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Jazz/New Improv

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:22:10 -0500 (EST)  Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> Yeah, but in referring to the Europeans, putting Bailey aside, Parker
> admits (declares?) that his original inspiration was John Coltrae,
> Ornette Coleman etc. and he's worked over the years with many people from
> the so-called jazz tradition.

Parker might have been inspired by Coltrane (in fact, for the Parker lovers,
listen to the wild alto solo of Eric Dolphy on the track "Clarence's Place"
from BODY & THE SOULD by Freddie Hubbard -- Parker claims it as being one of
his main influences on the way he plays), but this does not change the fact
that his music is as detached from the jazz tradition as Bailey is.

Yes, he has worked with people coming from jazz, but the true question is:
has he ever played a solo that could be associated to a jazz tradition?
If you believe yes, let me know because I might have missed it.

Bailey and Parker might disagree on their roots/inspirations/models, but
they are the main proponents of a style for which is it even easier to
find connections in classical contemporary than in jazz.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 99 16:39:27 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: New Jazz/New Improv

Ken wrote:

>Brotzmann seems to boast about his connection to new Black American
>music and has had a long-standing association the likes of Frank Wright,
>William Parker, Hamid Drake, Milford Graves etc. I think if you asked
>him point blank, he'd probably say he was playing "jazz".

No doubt and I'd tend to agree (though Last Exit, whom I loved, might be
an arguable point). The range from "straight" jazz to free improv and
other forms is certainly filled with many shades of gray and whereas you
and I might agree that what Brotzmann pere normally plays falls within
the jazz tradition, we might also agree that what Brotzmann fils plays
does not, despite the clear influence of the former. In other words,
somewhere along the line, in Caspar's music, the jazz aspect, while still
influential to some degree, is subsumed by the rock, noise, whatever one,
to the point where I wouldn't feel comfortable using the term.

My guess is that this is going to be more and more the case as creative
musicians mature among a welter of traditions that mightn't have been
available 30-40 years ago. You know, that coffee-colored future. And it
might not be a bad thing. We'll see.

Brian Olewnick





- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 16:48:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Orange <[e-mail]>
Subject: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown

just picked up skopelitis' "ekstasis" which i find interesting if a bit
too glossy.  but i'm wondering if someone can help me: i know saw him
listed with one of the no new york bands but i can't figure out which one
or how he got from there to here.

similar question regarding marion brown.  i taped some songs from an
album of his that came out on the old arista freedom label (can't remember
the album's title) capturing a 1967 dutch session -- and i've never heard
or seen anything else about him or by him since then.

much thanks,
tom orange / [e-mail]



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:50:31 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown

At 04:48 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Tom Orange wrote:
>just picked up skopelitis' "ekstasis" which i find interesting if a bit
>too glossy.  but i'm wondering if someone can help me: i know saw him
>listed with one of the no new york bands but i can't figure out which one
>or how he got from there to here.

Skopelitis has played on a large number of Bill Laswell produced and
related bands.  The earliest reference I have is with Material.


Jeff Spirer
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
B&W Photos, Words: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:54:38 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown

On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:50:31 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> At 04:48 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Tom Orange wrote:
> >just picked up skopelitis' "ekstasis" which i find interesting if a bit
> >too glossy.  but i'm wondering if someone can help me: i know saw him
> >listed with one of the no new york bands but i can't figure out which one
> >or how he got from there to here.
>
> Skopelitis has played on a large number of Bill Laswell produced and
> related bands.  The earliest reference I have is with Material.

He was also with the Golden Palominos.

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:03:36 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Nicky Skopelitis / Marion Brown

At 01:54 PM 1/13/99 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>On Wed, 13 Jan 1999 13:50:31 -0800  Jeff Spirer wrote:
>>
>> At 04:48 PM 1/13/99 -0500, Tom Orange wrote:
>> >just picked up skopelitis' "ekstasis" which i find interesting if a bit
>> >too glossy.  but i'm wondering if someone can help me: i know saw him
>> >listed with one of the no new york bands but i can't figure out which one
>> >or how he got from there to here.
>>
>> Skopelitis has played on a large number of Bill Laswell produced and
>> related bands.  The earliest reference I have is with Material.
>
>He was also with the Golden Palominos.
>

I think this falls into the categories I referenced, since Bill produced
and played in GP.  Nicky appeared with Material prior to the GPs, however.


Jeff Spirer
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
B&W Photos, Words: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 00:11:23 +0100
From: "Francesco Martinelli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: R: New Jazz/New Improv

I think your opinion has a sound basis, but still I feel a strong connection
to jazz inside Evan Parker's music, or at least part of it (solos, trios for
example). And he stressed several times that he think of himself as a jazz
player.


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #573
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