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Zorn List Digest       Friday, December 18 1998       Volume 02 : Number 560



In this issue:
-
       RE:Gayle, Ware, etc
       Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)
       Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)
       Re: Free Jazz
       Recent Goodies
       Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)
       christian marclay/ikue mori/zeena parkins @the knit

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 07:20:46 -0600
From: John Howard <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:Gayle, Ware, etc

Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 09:48:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gayle/Ware etc

On Wed, 16 Dec 1998, John Howard wrote:

> Another thing, one of the by-products of the new po-mo indie kids liking
the
> music is that they are so reverent that they will accept most improv
> uncritically and at the same time not engage it on
> a...ummm..spiritual?...level. I have called it "broccoli syndrome", they
> know its good for them, so they endure it, never questioning whether (or
> what) it communicates to them.

>gee, i wonder if you could make your generalizations >any broader?  you
>sound like an old curmudgeon.  "why kids these days >don't listen to
>improv correctly..."  what a load of crap!  god forbid >that anyone
>younger than 45 start listening to improv.  i think >this would fall under
>zorn's "jazz snob eat..." category.

I can see why you took that in that way, but that was not how it was
intended.  "Indie kids" is a sort of misnomer, these are people that are my
age, I am 32, and grew up listening to college rock and hardcore/post-punk.
Hey! just like me!  If I am generalizing it is about a very specific
audience.  There is not a broad range at these shows.
In another more defensive point, I reserve the right to be mildly critical
on occasion, I have not said these people should give the fuck up.  I just
found the disconnect interesting, related more to the commodification of the
idea of improv. It signifies something positive for these people.
Eventually, a number of them will love it, continue to listen (not to me,
cause they will soon realize how poor my attempts are)and it will become
part of them.   john

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:23:43 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 01:59:17 -0500, Steve Smith <[e-mail]> sed:

> My question is this (and it's not a publicist's marketing research but a genuine
> question from a fellow traveller - remember, I'm posting this later than 6 p.m.,
> always a good sign that I'm not "working"): how much importance do the critics have in
> what we actually
> decide to motivate ourselves to go to a store (or surf to a website) and lay down
> cold hard cash?

Aw, c'mon Steve, you're not gonna use ANY of this info for your job? ;-)

I sit on both sides of the fence so I'd say that it depends on the writer and the
consumer.  I know people who buy up CD's if only because certain writers say that they
love it.  With so many indie labels, it's really impossible to get a bead on EVERYTHING in
every style of music (much less one style).  Any writer worth her or his salt will read
what other scribes and zines have to say and learn something in the process.  Someone told
me 'if something's covered in the Wire, Mojo, Rootsworld and they all have something good
to say about it, I should probably at least check it out.'  That makes sense to me- you
gotta pick and choose.  I'd love to have enough time and money to go after EVERY release
that seems even remotely worthwhile but...

On the other hand, there's a lot of crap out there.  Go out and start asking artists and
record companies to send you CD's to review and I promise you that most of what you will
get will drive you crazy.  Well meaning and hard working as they all may be, it's very
scary.

One more thing: most people I know don't read ANY magazines at all to decide what to get-
they'll see a video or hear something on the radio to make their choice.  The ones reading
zines are hard-core music freaks, other writers and  musicians (to some extent at least).

Best,
J
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 08:50:30 -0600 (CST)
From: Saidel Eric J <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)

Steve Smith asks/wonders:

>
> In light of which, I want to share an anecdote just to see what kind of discussion
> this raises.  Beyond it being my job to communicate with professional music
> critics, it is often my pleasure to do so because I am a longtime fan of music
> journalism.  In high school I actually used to clip reviews of my favorite bands
> and paste them into scrapbooks, and before long I found myself noticing how many
> reviews I enjoyed were by the same few writers.  Growing up in the late '70s and
> early '80s, Rafi Zabor (now a novelist), Kurt Loder (now an MTV talking head) and
> Charles M. Young (now at Playboy and what else?) were among those I clipped the
> most.

This is kind of scary!

>
> A number of my favorite contemporary critics, with whose opinions I normally
> resonate greatly, have written very favorably about the pianist Marcus Roberts in
> recent years, labelling his 1997 release "Blues for the New Millenium" as being
> among their favorite releases of the year.  I listened to the album and found it
> largely unimpressive.  But I went to hear Roberts at his latest Village Vanguard
> engagement anyway.  And I found it unbearably stiff, not to mention about as
> "soulfully authentic and swinging" (all "musts" for a Wynton Marsalis band
> alumnus) as Emerson, Lake and Palmer.
>
> I asked the same critics in question what they'd thought of the same music I'd
> heard, and again they raved that it was marvellous.

I'm not sure if I think of myself as a critic or not, but ...  One thing
you have to remember is that critics listen to music differently.  When
I'm listening to something - as a reviewer - I'm listening mainly for
two things - does this music achieve what the musicians are after?
and is there something here that sets it apart from the crowd?  (I
think, to a large extent, that's what is so exciting - for me, at
least - about a lot of the contemporary "free improv" crowd.  Yes,
they're playing a style that hit its heyday 20-30 years ago, but
after the Wynton influenced 80's, this is a real breath of fresh
air.)  It's important to pay attention to why a critic loves
something, so even critics with whom you agree can love something
for the wrong (for you) reasons.

>
> My question is this (and it's not a publicist's marketing research but a genuine
> question from a fellow traveller - remember, I'm posting this later than 6 p.m.,
> always a good sign that I'm not "working"):  Most of us seem to use the Penguin
> Guide and other such tools to guide our purchases to some extent.  And we read
> Cadence, Down Beat, Magnet, Puncture, Forced Exposure or whatever else to find out
> what's new.  But how much importance do the critics have in what we actually
> decide to motivate ourselves to go to a store (or surf to a website) and lay down
> cold hard cash?
>
> I'll start:  I'll *often* go buy or attend something a favorite critic has
> recommended, even if I'm on occasion disappointed.  But *more* often lately, I'll
> go buy something recommended by a fellow Zornlister first.

This is my experience as well.  Well, except for the first part.  I do
read cadence with a pen in hand, marking those cds I want to go buy,
but my buying seldom follows my reading.  More often I'll buy something
because a friend mentioned it, or I heard about it from someone one
a list (either this list, or the jazz list (Jazz-L), or, when I was
on it, the bluegrass list (bgrass-l - for a couple of years almost
all of my bluegrass purchases were based on recommendations from
people on that list).

Of course, it depends who recommends the disc.  If the person is just
a record company shill, then forget it.  ;)  I look for people who
have taste that's similar to mine.  Interestingly enough, now that
I know, for example, that Steve is a fan of Don DeLillo's, I'm much
more likely to run out and buy a cd because he recommended it.  Of
course, the fact that he has good taste in music helps.  But those
extra parallels of taste help a lot too.

Jason's recommended a couple of things for me offlist and I'm much
more likely to buy them than I would have been had I just read how
great they were in his reviews.  I think the personal recommendation
really makes a difference.

Of course, when I review something and I like it, I want to convince
people to go buy it.  But I don't see that happening too often.

Fortunately, that's not - for me - the reason for writing reviews.
It has to do with things that are related more to what Steve says
here:

>
> Make no mistake, I do think music criticism, as with all of arts criticism, has
> its place.  It's a valuable ongoing record of the development of the arts scene
> and to personal (and to some extent societal reactions to same), and it's also
> frequently just interesting reading material - most of the time I have no plan
> whatsoever to hear most of what Cadence reviews, instead living it vicariously
> through the critic's prose.

There's also the desire to help the music in some way, by giving the musicians
an honest appraisal of their work, and what they could do better.  (And
by offering encouragement when the financial encouragement might not be
that great.)


>
> Thoughts?  (Don't be shy, Jason...)

Hey!  What am I, chopped liver?  :)

- - eric



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:02:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Free Jazz

<< [e-mail] wrote:

 > If anyone lives in or near Boston, BTW, Carter will be playing
 > with Boston's "Saturnalia String Trio" (who are recording a disc with
Carter
 > for the Sublingual label, to be released in early 99)

 Great review of a live show by said forces appears in the fine and still
improving
 Vermont based zine Signal to Noise, the December (I think) issue with Miles
Davis
 on the cover (for a nice feature on the Bitches Brew box).  A nifty little
zine,
 formerly known as Soundboard...

 Steve Smith
 [e-mail]
  >>

Thanks for mentioning this, Steve!  Signal to Noise (formerly Soundboard
Magazine) is doing a GREAT job of covering the full spectrum of improv, as you
said Steve: "one foot in the free improv / energy / ecstatic scene and the
other in the Phish-head / jam band scene".  Very interesting approach...they
had sent me a copy of the magazine with the Trio and Daniel C review, some
excerpts of which I've pasted in below.  (I've run a few Sublingual Records
ads in the mag, as well, and they've done a great job with them ....
reasonable rates, too.)

     "Those of us who attended the Green Street Grill show in Cambridge on
Sunday night, September 13 were treated to a very special collaboration
between the Saturnalia String Trio with very special guest Daniel Carter (the
amazing New York City free improv multi-instrumentalist from Other Dimensions
in Music, Test, etc, who played the tenor sax, flute and trumpet). The Joe
Maneri Trio was also on the bill...
Working without a drummer, and essentially forming a marriage of those
instruments associated primarily with European classical music with the
instruments commonly associated with the great African American music that
Carter has been involved with in New York for over two decades, the group
turned in a sublime set of music whose melodic beauty and clarity  was as
unique as it was uncommon in much of the improvised music of the day.  There
seemed to be rays of pure love emanating through the vibrations that the group
created, weaving a harmonic tapestry of gentle, graceful fibers, punctuated
with well timed climactic cascades....At one point, I found myself imagining
what it would have sounded like if Webern would have written a string piece to
be performed along with the great John Coltrane on saxophone.  The blues would
emanate from the endless well of CarterÆs uplifted horn, to be answered in a
call-and-response manner by the luxuriant and spontaneous layering of the
strings."

Franklin Jones, Signal to Noise, Sptember 1998

For those interested, in addition to the collaborative CD between SS Trio and
Daniel C that Sublingual will be releasing in early 99, we will also be
releasing a collaborative CD between SS Trio and Roger Miller's (x-Mission of
Burma) new prepared piano/drums duo "The Binary System".

You know, the subject keeps popping up in these discussions about the "idioms"
and "common motiffs" of improvised music, and I can't help but to consider
that the bulk of this music (in America, at least) has been played by horn
players (of course there ARE many exceptions, especially as mentioned with the
Thurston Moore, Gastr Del Sol, Jim O'Rourke front more recently, as well as
the inclusion of strings during many sessions in the golden 60's era of improv
- - like Ron Carter's cello work with Dolphy, etc.), and that I'm guessing that
people are referring to the standard horns/piano/bass/drums combos when they
woe the tired state of "the genre" (not that I really agree entirely that it's
tired...)....But lets face it, I think it must be tough for horn players to
sound completely original in improv, given the weight and genius of those who
have come before them. Since working with the Saturnalia String Trio and the
Boston String Ensemble (John Voigt - bass, Ricardo Frota - violin, Jonathan
LaMaster - 5 string violin), I've become more aware of a movement of many
other groups towards working with strings.  The Dave Douglas 5 CD from a few
years back was certainly inspirational, I thought...

What do others think...is it nearly impossible for horn players to sound
"fresh"?  I think it must be challenging, to say the least...that's where I
think Carter and Sabir Mateen score points in my book (for their originality
without totally discounting the influences and lineage of the past....how
could they? They're the direct descendants.)

BTW, I heard a great Steve Lacy live cut from 1979 on the radio the other day
with great string work on it...didn't recognize the names of any of the other
players, though...anyone have any recomendations on work he's done with
strings?  Also, I thought the Peter Kowald set at the Visions Fest last May
was completely transcendent... the Europeans seem to have much more of a
tradition in these contexts.

Jonathan LaMaster
Sublingual Records
http://www.sublingual.com




- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 98 11:12:51 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recent Goodies

     Kazutoki Umezu             Ahiru                   Nani

     I'm almost hesitant to mention this one, as it's probably next to
     impossible to get in the US, but this is one wonderful record. 'Ahiru'
     is Vol 1 of Umezu's 20-piece all-Japanese klezmer ensemble and, though
     I admit to being a sucker for most things klezmer, this one's pretty
     special. Combining the tightness and raucous nutso quality of classic
     Breuker, Umezu covers such venerable songs as 'Tum Balalayke', 'Bay
     Mir Bistu Sheyn' and a delirious run-through of Mickey Katz' version
     of the cowboy classic, 'I Want to Go Where the Wild Goose Goes'.

     James Tenney               Bridge + Flocking       hat [now]

     On a more sober note, these are two pieces, for piano quartet and
     piano duo, that feature Tenney's unusual tuning system,
     Partch-inspired, though not the same as Partch's. On first listen, I
     had the impression more of a demo for the tunings than of any
     particular musical statement. On re-listen, the generally quiet and
     single note lines showed subtle ebb and flow patterns, a hard to
     describe kind of internal logic seemed to be asserting itself. A tough
     nut, for me, to crack but it's proving rewarding. This was my first
     exposure to Tenney's music and other's comments would be welcome.

     Christian Wolff            I Like to Think of Harriet Tubman      Mode

     Also my first experience of Wolff's work. This is a collection of
     pieces written from 1950 to 1986 and they vary a good bit. The earlier
     ones in a spare, often beautiful Cage/Feldman mode, the later pieces
     coming under some degree of influence (though I'm not actually sure
     which way the influence went) of Cardew and Rzewski. His use of
     popular or worker's songs is not as overt as in the work of these two,
     but makes for an intriguing half-way point between song form and
     abstraction. Worth hearing and, again, I'd be curious to hear opinions
     of other Wolff works.

     Brian Olewnick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 12:33:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Music Criticism (was Re: Penguin Guide)

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

> I'll start:  I'll *often* go buy or attend something a favorite critic has
> recommended, even if I'm on occasion disappointed.  But *more* often lately, I'll
> go buy something recommended by a fellow Zornlister first.  (Hell, if Jon Abbey
> alone got a commission on all the things he's coaxed me into buying...)

The same here: a huge chunk of my purchasing is due to posts on zornlist,
phiba-improv, ecto, or Silence. I'll pay attention if, say, Kyle Gann
raves about something (though I haven't seen him in the Voice recently --
is he still there?). I'll pay attention to reviews in The Wire, Avant,
Cadence, ND, and the like, but I'm not as often prompted to buy stuff.

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 11:34:38 PST
From: "keik-o wenischi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: christian marclay/ikue mori/zeena parkins @the knit

hello! i received the following message thru c. marclay... so i'm
passing it on:

PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE PRESS RELEASE

Christian Marclay & Ikue Mori & Zeena Parkins

The rare meeting of three brillant personalities from New York's
improvising community. Turntablist extraordinaire Christian Marclay
teams up with the wild electric harpist Zeena Parkins and Ikue Mori the
legendary drum machinist.  The perfect antidote to the Holiday Season
blues.

Saturday December 19
9 & 10 pm
$ 10
The Knitting Factory
74 Leonard Street
212-219 3006
www.knittingfactory.com
********
end.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #560
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