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Zorn List Digest      Saturday, December 19 1998      Volume 02 : Number 561



In this issue:
-
       not list related again
       Criticism/Reviews
       Stuff and nonsense, etc.
       Re: Improv/Penguin
       Re: Wadada Leo Smith's Tao N'jia on Tzadik
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Re: Recent Goodies
       Richard Youngs
       Re:  Richard Youngs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 20:36:09 +0100 (MET)
From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: not list related again

thanks to all the people giving me hints on ralph steadman books. this
list is really one of the best sources for all kinds of info...

ok....
anyone who has any idea what i am talkin about please answer privately:

i am looking for a song by someone called WARREN MARLEY that says
something about Los Angeles in the lyrics. it must be from around 1970...


BJOERN
www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 16:35:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Criticism/Reviews

Well, since I've been solicited I'll pipe in a bit. I must say though that
Eric "Chopped Liver" Saidel (sorry Eric, I couldn't resist) has been
customarily eloquent and I share a lot of his motivations about criticism
and reviewing.

I'll see that Tony Reif's ruminations yesterday were much closer to what I
think of as "music criticism" (and fine criticism, at that) as opposed to
what Eric and I do for Cadence, which involves all-too-rapid (and
sometimes not-rapid-enough) appraisals of promo discs for readers. I do
think there's a dignity and a purpose to this, but it's probably different
from what most of us think of as criticism.

As a reviewer, I feel like I face to conceptual stumbling-blocks. The
first is that I play this music, and that sometimes makes it difficult for
me to encounter certain review pieces. On the one hand, I might open up
the ol' UPS box to discover a slew of still more 60s Blue Note hard bop
copies, my general response to which "Fuck, not again." But on the other
hand, as Eric so rightly put it, it's important to employ a tad of
phenomenological method here and try to assess what the musicians' goals
were and what they're trying to convey to the audience.

The second stumbling-block concerns how much I see myself as making
recommendations for purchase. Here I'm in total agreement with Saidel,
Smith, and others. I do respect and follow the writings of some critics (I
dig Eric's writing, and Walter Horn's too; and I really like Downbeat
rogue John Corbett, both as writer and person). That having been said,
it's much more important to me to get a recommendation from someone
personally than through print. That's not to say I don't crib from print
reviews, but these things are expensive so I'd rather be sure; and the
personal interaction is more pleasing anyway. I'd say I write my reviews
to give an accurate representation of what's going on, where the artist in
question is found in the music in general, and to be entertaining if
possible, understanding that most folks read for the info and not as part
of a shopping list.

So, without further ado, can anybody clue me in on where to start with
Gianni Gebbia and Georgio Gaslini??

This has been a really stimulating and collegial week for the Zorn list,
by the way.

JB


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 13:04:36 -0500
From: Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stuff and nonsense, etc.

I'm starting to realize just how frustrating it must be to be signed up to
this list in digest form; I've been watching this
improv/education/criticism discussion develop for a couple of days now, and
exams have kept me from writing the damnedest thing in response to any of
it. Now that I'm finished, I'm not quite sure where to start, so please
bear with me for a second while I stumble about and show off just how new I
am to all of this:

WYNTON MARSALIS AND EDUCATION: Just in case the e-mail address didn't give
it away, I'm Canadian, and like one other contributor so far, I'd consider
my grade- and high school music education to have been fantastic, though I
understand that this both was and still is the exception as far as most
schools go. In the sixth grade, our music teacher made us all bring in a
tape of some sort along with a "call chart", or list of twenty prepared
questions for the class to answer at predetermined points during the piece
that we were listening to... the questions could ask about the lyrics at a
particular spot in a song, or have somebody identify a particular solo
instrument, or whatever. Given that most of us had never been anywhere near
an instrument of any sort, it was a pretty terrific taking-off point for
high school.
  Much as I came to dislike the politicking that went on in and around the
music department in my high school, I'm not for a second going to try to
deny that the six years that I spent being subjected to the worst that Miss
Barber and Co. could throw at me has done a *lot* for my appreciation of
music in general. Between the start of the seventh grade and my eventual
graduation, I played three different clarinets, the trombone, and crash
cymbals; in the eighth grade, our class looked at the hows and whys of
program music, and did small-group presentations on specific pieces; in the
tenth grade, we were made to look at specific examples of late Classical
material and discuss how the arrangements fit together; in the eleventh,
things got really messy when we tried to do the same thing with Baroque
compositions. Hell, in the twelfth grade, they had us try our hands at
arranging something for a quartet of our choice, which probably isn't
something that any kid of mine (assuming that my girlfriend and I don't
just end up raising puppies) will ever experience outside of a private
school at the rate that things are going right now.
  ...which is where I think Wynton Marsalis and all of the
less-than-innovative stuff that he does should come into the discussion.
Sure, he was hailed all over the place (and still is if you live and die by
PBS) as the saviour of the arts and blah-blah-blah. From a Zorn-list
perspective, what he's doing doesn't seem to strike an awful lot of people
as being terribly important. But (and this is where I come off looking like
a total geek), check out what he had to say in an interview from the _Utne
Reader_ back in early '96... the fact that it was reprinted from a late '95
issue of _American Heritage_ might tell you what to expect:

"The principle of American democracy is that you have freedom. The question
is `How will you use it?' which is also the central question in jazz. In
democracy, as in jazz, you have freedom with restraint. It's not absolute
freedom, it's freedom within a structure.
  "The connection between jazz and the American experience is profound.
Believe me, that's the heart and soul of what jazz is. That's why jazz is
so important. And that's why the fact that it has not been addressed has
resulted in our losing a large portion of our identity as Americans.
Because the art form that really gives us a mythic representation of our
society has not been taught to the public."

And earlier, in response to the question, "You have been criticized for
being deaf to a lot of interesting music since the era of Coltrane and
Coleman":
  "I've listened to it. I've played with the musicians.... If I've rejected
it's not out of ignorance of it. I don't know any people who like it. It
doesn't resonate with anything I've experienced in the world.... I don't
even like Coltrane's later stuff, to be honest. I don't listen to it like a
do to _A Love Supreme_. It was with the type of things that late-period
Coltrane did that jazz destroyed its relationship with the public."

This probably won't really surprise anybody, at least not if they're at all
familiar with the sorts of people and organizations who boost his career
the most, but I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that it might not
be entirely fair, accurate, or whatever, to be gunning for Marsalis because
his approach to jazz differs from that of the free-improv types, and that's
because he's trying to accomplish something entirely different. Granted,
it's a bit too Boy Scout-ish for my tastes, but as an English student
myself, it's not as though I'm unfamiliar with the urge of particular
artists of any sort to create, refine, or entire redefine a national (or
group) identity in the face of current obstacles.
  And *this*, (un?)fortunately, is where I have to start relying on the
rest of the list. My own knowledge of jazz in any period is pathetic... I'm
just starting to listen to any of it, and have really only been profoundly
blown away by Charles Mingus so far; the Zorn thing hasn't really been a
jazz issue for me yet because I came at it from the industrial-isolationist
thing through Mick Harris and Bill Laswell and the Golden Palominos, and
I've heard very little of what most people would consider to be Zorn's
"jazz" material. What I am going to try to do, though, is make a couple of
tentative links between recent moments in this discussion and see if
anybody can run with them for a bit:

1) WASPish guilt and geography. Since a lot of the Marsalis interview that
I've just quoted refers to jazz as having been specifically refined by
Afro-Americans in a distinctively American fashion (there's a passage in
Tony Scherman's introduction to the interview that says something along the
lines of "Americans are cultural mulattoes"), I'm wondering if a lot of
what has been said about faux spirituality and indie kids and all of that
might be tied into the same lack of a (white?) American national identity,
or even if people think that the sudden lack of a specific national focus
might be a part of why jazz at large is largely considered to be
floundering these days.

2) Goals. What *are* the free-improv types trying to accomplish? If
Marsalis' vision of jazz and music education is all about maintaining a
musical tradition in order to shore up what he sees as a crumbling national
tradition, what are other jazz musicians who work under a different set of
rules trying to do thirty years after the foundations were laid for their
current work?

3.) Critics. I was originally going to write an entirely separate message
about how I get along with music critics, but since it's almost 1:00 and I
still haven't had a shower (and because I'm sure that you've all had enough
of me for one day), I'm going to spare you that one for now. Still, I can't
help but wonder if maybe the fact that we're all involved in some aspect of
music criticism simply through our buying and listening habits might not
blind us to certain other aspects of what musicans are trying to accomlish.
I personally don't listen to jazz because I want to know what it's like to
be American; I'm Canadian, fergawdsakes. Maybe this is too inclusive and
touchy-feely a perspective to be advancing here, but doesn't it seem
possible that a lot of the dismissals, or even negative reviews, that we've
seen lately might come out of something other than simply having heard the
cliches before? Actually, this probably ties back to my second
question-point-thing above, so maybe I'm just wasting your time now.
  I'm going to head off and have a shower now, but I wanted to thank
everybody on this list for giving me an awful lot to read and think about
during the past couple of days. You've been an exceptionally welcome
distraction from my exams, and the tone of discussion has been more
civilized than anything that I've seen on any other Internet forum in
years... it's almost inspiring.

- -me





- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 17:56:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Improv/Penguin

I think semi-institutionalized racism and hymning of monopoly capitalism
on one side of the ocean verses such things as government arts subsidies and
universal health care may answer your question.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Mon, 14 Dec 1998, Tom Pratt wrote:


> Why is it that many of the European free improvisors that pioneered the idiom
> are still around and playing while the Americans from that period seemed to
> have disappeared?
>
>                                     -Tom Pratt
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 18:04:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Wadada Leo Smith's Tao N'jia on Tzadik

Is this a reissue of the  NJAQ's ESP-DIsk or the later one on Fontana?

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, leon lee wrote:

> "Tao N'Jia" on Tzadik is an absolutely beautiful disc.
> Highly recommended.  Tones and silences, ethereal and poignant.  This is
> my most listened to Leo Smith album and it's been passed on to others as a
> favorite as well.
>
> Just bought the New York Art Quartet reissue on Get Back.  I was expecting
> liner notes and there isn't any.  Anyone interested in photocopying it for
> me?  Please mail me... thanks.
>
> Be well
> Leon Lee
>
> We sit together, the mountain and me,
> until only the mountain remains.
>         -- Li Po
> "If I'm going to get shot, I want to see who is doing the shooting."
>         -- 'Sista' Marie Lee 12/9/98 @ Taqueria Can-cun
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 03:13:04 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

>      James Tenney               Bridge + Flocking       hat [now]
>
>      On a more sober note, these are two pieces, for piano quartet and
>      piano duo, that feature Tenney's unusual tuning system,
>      Partch-inspired, though not the same as Partch's. On first listen, I
>      had the impression more of a demo for the tunings than of any
>      particular musical statement. On re-listen, the generally quiet and
>      single note lines showed subtle ebb and flow patterns, a hard to
>      describe kind of internal logic seemed to be asserting itself. A tough
>      nut, for me, to crack but it's proving rewarding. This was my first
>      exposure to Tenney's music and other's comments would be welcome.

There is a disc of his electronic works I liked. The reason I mention it is
that one of the pieces was *very* Oswald/plunderhonic type piece using Elvis
Presleys's "Blue Suede Shoes" as source material. And I believe it long
predated Oswald so I thought it might be of interest... I can't remember the
label and the title was a span of years (I'm not very useful here! Can anyone
help?).

                        -Tom Pratt



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 04:44:17 -0800
From: cd <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies

Tom Pratt wrote:

> > This was my first
> > exposure to Tenney's music and other's comments would be welcome.
>
> There is a disc of his electronic works I liked. The reason I mention it is
> that one of the pieces was *very* Oswald/plunderhonic type piece using Elvis
> Presleys's "Blue Suede Shoes" as source material. And I believe it long
> predated Oswald so I thought it might be of interest... I can't remember the
> label and the title was a span of years (I'm not very useful here! Can anyone
> help?).


Perhaps:

Tenney, James - Selected works, 1961-1969:
          Collage, no. 1.
      Noise study.
          Dialogue.
          Phases.
          Music for player piano.
          Ergodos, no. 2.
          Fabric for Che.
          For Ann (rising)

Sorry, don't know the label.

"It wasn't until 1961 that an unequivocal exposition of plunderphonic
techniques arrived in James Tenney's celebrated Collage No. 1 (Blue
Suede), a manipulation of Elvis Presley's hit song "Blue Suede Shoes".
The gauntlet was down; Tenney had picked up a "non-art", low-brow work
and turned it into "art"; not, as with scored music, by writing
variations on a popular air, but simply by subjecting a gramaphone
record to various physical and electrical procedures."
                    -from Chris Cutler, "plunderphonia" (1994) 60 Musicworks 6.

Oswald himself refers to Collage No. 1 in his paper "Audio Piracy as a
Compositional Prerogative" (1985) reproduced in 43 Musicworks (?), 57
Whole Earth Review (?), and Negativland, "Fair Use: The Story of the
Letter U and the Numeral 2" (Concord, CA: Seeland, 1995) 213 at 216.

Note that "Blue Suede Shoes" was, as I recall, composed and originally
recorded by Carl Perkins.

- -cd

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 10:22:29 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Richard Youngs

Is anyone here familiar with the music of Richard Youngs and
specifically the recording 'Sapphie'? I just heard of him for the first
time in the new releases at Forced Exposure and it looked very
interesting... Could someone describe him for me?

Here's what Forced Exposure had to say:

"Unique to the already unique Youngs' oeuvre, Sapphie is Youngs' first
album with just two instruments -- classical guitar and voice. With only
three tracks making up this full length, we still get Youngs' signature
trait of composing with breadth, but never have we heard so much breath.
Not just the words themselves, but the way they are sung conveys the
sustained, yearnful feeling familiar throughout Youngs' almost ten-year
career in the underground. A step back to his earlier minimal musings,
Sapphie also steps forward as his first 'vocal' album." The most
pristine and elegantly recorded Youngs album and a devastating listen.

listening to: Joelle Leandre & Tetsu Saitoh: Joelle et Tetsu (Omba) -
great bass duets!

                                -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:42:17 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Richard Youngs

In a message dated 12/19/98 10:37:50 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Is anyone here familiar with the music of Richard Youngs and
specifically the recording 'Sapphie'?>>

I have most of his records. no two are the same, although most of them aren't
that good. what Forced Exposure doesn't mention in this capsule review is his
tendency towards bombastic cheesiness, seemingly Prog-influenced.

exceptions: the recently released House Music (Meme) is a surprisingly good
record created from processed household sounds. Advent (Table Of The Elements)
is a reissue of his acclaimed first, lo-fi, minimalist record, although I
think it's kind of overrated. Festival (also Table Of The Elements) is maybe
the best thing I've heard by him. he works a lot with fellow Brit Simon
Wickham-Smith. some of their records are flat-out bad (I'm thinking mostly of
Red and Black Bear, which is a children's opera). Youngs also has done 5 CDs
so far in his Radios series, which you can find under the name Brian Lavelle.
these range from interesting to good. I haven't heard Sapphie, since I've cut
down on my Youngs CD buying, but the description scares me. search the FE
catalog for Youngs, and you'll find better records to start with, I think.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #561
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