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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, December 1 1998       Volume 02 : Number 540



In this issue:
-
       Re: Frisell/ Youth
       Zorn...Dull?
       Sessions at W. 54th
       ben goldberg quartet in Portland!
       JERRY CANTRELL'S BOGGY DEPOT ALBUM SUCKS...!
       Re: Sessions at W. 54th
       Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
       Re: Sessions at W. 54th
       session at west54th: oops
       Harriet Tubman?
       Celluloid
       Re: Harriet Tubman?
       Re: Harriet Tubman?
       Re: Harriet Tubman?
       Garlands
       /Braxton/Cecil/Chadbourne
       Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
       Re: /Braxton/Cecil/Chadbourne
       Re: Garlands

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:34:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell/ Youth

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Then a man on stage said that an experimental group was going to play:
> they were Sonic Youth. I listened to their first song, then I turn off
> my TV.
>
> It's almost impossible to see any film from Andrei Tarkovsky and then
> Rambo.

that's a terrible analogy.

b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 13:49:05 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: Zorn...Dull?

Hello Zornies.

Innovation isn't the only reason one listen's to Zorn's work, although
he is certainly my favorite innovator.

Let's hear a cheer for Improv...!  I've got a live boot-leg of Naked
City and it's absolutely facinating to listen to the same songs with the
different improvations.  Depending proportionately on the mood of the
musician at that particular moment in time.   It keeps the music
exciting for the musicians as well as the audience member who has heard
the material many times before.


}Theodorus--



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:38:24 -0500
From: Troy Whitfield <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sessions at W. 54th

Hugo wrote:

> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:33:22 -0300
> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Frisell/ Youth
>
> Hello Zornies!
>
> Last Saturday night, on Sony TV Channel (Buenos Aires) I could see for
> my first time ever a Bill Frisell's live performance.

[snip]

> Anyone know if this Frisell show is on video?

It sounds like you're describing his appearance on Sessions at West
54th.  Sessions is an excellent weekly show on PBS.  The Frisell/SY
episode was originally broadcast on Aug. 6, 1997, one week before a
Richard Thompson/Suzanne Vega program.  The web site is:
http://www.sessionsatwest54th.com/.

I don't know if tapes are available.

Troy

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:38:20 -0800
From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: ben goldberg quartet in Portland!

hey all, sorry for the lack of zorn content...
just wondering if anyone can give me the lowdown on ben
goldbergs quartet?  all i know is that it is NOT Junk Genius
but Trevor Dunn is playing bass.  couldnt get any info on
drummer or keys.  let me know.....  i suppose it really does
not matter (im going to go anyway)......just looking for a
little preview.  for any portlanders out there.  the show is
at 7:00 tonight (12-1) at some church on the park blocks.
$10 at the door i think.
patrick in portland


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:36:29 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: JERRY CANTRELL'S BOGGY DEPOT ALBUM SUCKS...!

DON'T WASTE YOUR $$$$


}Theodorus--



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:12:12 PST
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sessions at W. 54th

My little bro told me that Tim Berne was hosting this season.  Is this
true?  I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

>Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:38:24 -0500
>From: Troy Whitfield <[e-mail]>
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Sessions at W. 54th
>
>Hugo wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:33:22 -0300
>> From: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Frisell/ Youth
>>
>> Hello Zornies!
>>
>> Last Saturday night, on Sony TV Channel (Buenos Aires) I could see
for
>> my first time ever a Bill Frisell's live performance.
>
>[snip]
>
>> Anyone know if this Frisell show is on video?
>
>It sounds like you're describing his appearance on Sessions at West
>54th.  Sessions is an excellent weekly show on PBS.  The Frisell/SY
>episode was originally broadcast on Aug. 6, 1997, one week before a
>Richard Thompson/Suzanne Vega program.  The web site is:
>http://www.sessionsatwest54th.com/.
>
>I don't know if tapes are available.
>
>Troy
>
>-
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 14:14:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Martens <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Has John Zorn became dull?

- [e-mail] wrote:
>      Trying valiantly to bring this back around to Zorn, if he does
nothing
>      else "innovative" (and I might argue that innovation is not
negated by
>      the tunefulness of, say, the 'Bar Kokhba' projects), he's had a
pretty
>      good run at things. If Masada's musical innovations are minor,
it's
>      still one of the most enjoyable, consistently exciting bands out
>      there, and that's enough.
Also, you have to remember that the whole Masada project is about more
than just the music -- there's a definite political agenda to it too
- -- whereas Naked City, for example, was more about existential issues,
for the want of a less inadequate term -- and even the one even
vaguely "political" (in a broad sense of the term) Naked City record,
Radio (if I'm interpreting the bondage photo in the cover right), was
still basically music-related, while Masada is about things like
martyrdom and genocide and cultural memory, and if Zorn wants to
actually get his message across, he can't push himself so far that the
only people who'll enjoy it are the ones who are already Zorn fans
(assuming he could push himself any further w/out collapsing into
self-parody). I'm not saying he's "sold out" or anything like that;
it's more like he's focusing his energy outward now -- listening to
most of Zorn's records, I get the feeling that he personally couldn't
give half a fuck whether I like it or not (I mean I'm sure he's glad
that I do -- or at least that somebody does), but w/ Masada, if people
don't listen to it, there's really no point in its existing at all.
Does that make sense? And at least he's trying to do something
worthwhile, rather than just sitting there jerking off trying to
recapture past glories. And finally, let me add that I'm not trying to
disparage the music side of Masada in any way, because IMHO it's some
of the best music out there right now.
==
Eric Martens

"When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to
take your word on that." -- Liz Phair



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:17:55 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sessions at W. 54th

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Scott Handley wrote:

> My little bro told me that Tim Berne was hosting this season.  Is this
> true?  I haven't had a chance to check it out yet.

Close (phonetically): It's David Byrne.

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:18:32 PST
From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: session at west54th: oops

It was David Byren, not Tim Berne.  I am a silly, lazy boy.  I went to
the web site and there he was in a Brooks and Dunn flame-job outfit.
Forgive the lazy ass e.mail.

- --s

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 14:19:03 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Harriet Tubman?

    Who is Harriet Tubman? I would not have bothered to ask with only the
KF record, but now there is a Christian Wolff record on Mode called I LIKE TO
THINK OF HARRIET TUBMAN.

    Any idea how is this person?

    Thanks,

    Patrice (who feels that he should know the answer).


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:32:17 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Celluloid

Anyone out there know who now owns the rights to the Celluloid catalog. I'm
not interested in the Laswell stuff, but the Dance/Hip-Hop catalog. My
understanding is that Jean Karakos sold it a few years back. Any help would be
much appreciated.

Steve

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 18:03:26 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Harriet Tubman?

According to my Webster's dictionary, Harriet Tubman ca 1820 -1913,
American abolitionist. If I recall correctly, she was a black woman born
into slavery, who helped lead the fight against slavery and later top
get more rights for blacks.

But I'm a Canadian. What do you Americans know about your history?

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
>     Who is Harriet Tubman? I would not have bothered to ask with only the
> KF record, but now there is a Christian Wolff record on Mode called I LIKE TO
> THINK OF HARRIET TUBMAN.
>
>     Any idea how is this person?
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Patrice (who feels that he should know the answer).
>
>
> -
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:15:36 -0800
From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Harriet Tubman?

At 06:03 PM 12/1/98 -0500, Ken Waxman wrote:
>
>According to my Webster's dictionary, Harriet Tubman ca 1820 -1913,
>American abolitionist. If I recall correctly, she was a black woman born
>into slavery, who helped lead the fight against slavery and later top
>get more rights for blacks.
>
>But I'm a Canadian. What do you Americans know about your history?

Patrice is a Frenchman.  However, any American on this list who can't
answer the question of who she was should spend a lot more time reading
than listening to music.  She is one of the true heros of American history.

>
>Ken Waxman
>[e-mail]
>
>On Tue, 1 Dec 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>>
>>     Who is Harriet Tubman? I would not have bothered to ask with only the
>> KF record, but now there is a Christian Wolff record on Mode called I
LIKE TO
>> THINK OF HARRIET TUBMAN.
>>
>>     Any idea how is this person?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Patrice (who feels that he should know the answer).
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>>
>
>-
>

Jeff Spirer
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
B&W Photos, Words: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:25:05 -0300
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Harriet Tubman?

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>         Who is Harriet Tubman?

The most famous "conductor" on the Underground Railroad.
"born into slavery...5 feet tall...veteran of countless secret missions
piloting blacks out of slavery...always carrying a pistol, telling
fugitives: 'you'll be free or die.'"
- --Zinn's "People's History of the US"

- -RL
- --
Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S.
Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball
& the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc.,  at:
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k

***Very Various Music For Sale:
***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 20:44:32 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Garlands

Has David Garland, whose 'Control Songs' I just got and enjoyed,
released any other albums under his own name? I think I've only
otherwise heard him with Klucevsek on the 'Polka from the Fringe'
collections, where he contributes fine vocal stylings and the wonderful
'VCR Polka'.

Can anyone comment on Peter Garland's Avant release? I came across his
name again in the new Harry Partch biography (required reading, by the
way) and wonder if his work bears any relation to HP's.

Are these two guys related?

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 21:12:54 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: /Braxton/Cecil/Chadbourne

> >        Sax Improvisations-Series F     Inner City      *

We have this A. Braxton LP at the radio station where I work, and I got it
out today and listened to it.  The first time I really have listened to
him, and I think its great. A lot of range, not as brainy as he's made out
to be. That had been scaring me away
>
>      Obviously, this is a generalization and abstraction, but I think it
>      largely holds true that most innovative work (in almost _all_ fields,
>      not just art) is accomplished by folk in their 20's and 30's (spoken
>      as a 44-year old painter). It's pretty rare that you find someone in

Wouldn't Cecil Taylor be another exception to this?  I've only heard
parts from each decade but compared with Ornette for example I think his
later work compares very well with his earlier stuff.   Maybe not as
shockingly innovative but refining what he does.  I like his more recent
stuff more than a lot the 60s stuff, FWIW.
>
> THE BROOKLYN-BOSTON 3
> (Charles Waters-reeds, Jane Wang-double bass, Andrew Barker-drums)

If you get a chance, go see these guys. Waters and Barker are in the Gold
Sparkle Band from Atlanta. Waters is also on the recent Eugene Chadbourne
CD Insect Attracter, which is great.  Very spare and open, reminds of the
Art Ensemble of Chi's quiet stuff, only with banjos.

Has anyone heard Chadbourne's CDs on Intakt? I think there are 4 already.
Thanks if you can comment on these,

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:26:13 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Has John Zorn became dull?

At 11:39 AM 12/1/98 -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>
>     Obviously, this is a generalization and abstraction, but I think it
>     largely holds true that most innovative work (in almost _all_ fields,
>     not just art) is accomplished by folk in their 20's and 30's (spoken
>     as a 44-year old painter). It's pretty rare that you find someone in
>     their 50's coming up with ideas that "shake the foundations" of the
>     area in which they work. It's also rare that, looking back over a
>     given artist's career, you find his/her "best" works done late in that
>     life. There are, of course, exceptions (I'm thinking of Harry Partch,
>     though even there one could argue that the conceptual innovations that
>     ultimately led to masterworks like 'Delusion of the Fury'--composed
>     when he was over 60--were derived at a much younger age), but I think
>     this is a generally accurate representation of the "average" creative
>     life.

I really have to differ with the age vs. quality graph (dunno, perhaps my
mail reader skewed the low numbers at the end of the age bracket...).
While I agree that innovation is found almost always found early in an
artistic career, the later works often bring a sense of transcendance which
takes a lifetime to acquire.  I admit I'm thinking more of classical music
than pop, but we really haven't had pop music that long, and unfortunately
pop musicians get involved in life shortening distractions like drugs, fast
living, etc., in addition to the financial rewards of rehashing the works
which made them famous (look at all the middle-aged rockers doing revival
tours).

In classical music, I'm thinking of Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert,
Wagner, Carter, even Cage (whose late works I'm only beginning to
appreciate), in addition to many famous conductors and performers who are
well advanced in years.  But in pop, look at Coltrane's late works for an
example of transcendance.  Zorn hasn't reached that age bracket yet, but I
look forward to his output, and hope I'm still around to hear it.


- --
Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 21:39:07 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: /Braxton/Cecil/Chadbourne

William York wrote:

> Wouldn't Cecil Taylor be another exception to this?  I've only heard
> parts from each decade but compared with Ornette for example I think his
> later work compares very well with his earlier stuff.   Maybe not as
> shockingly innovative but refining what he does.  I like his more recent
> stuff more than a lot the 60s stuff, FWIW.

Cecil is at least _somewhat_ of an exception, in that the general
quality of his work remains consistently high, but (and of course, this
is just my opinion) his work from '66-'73, from say, 'Unit Structures'
to 'Silent Tongues', when he was about 30-38, stands a notch above even
the best of his later work. But, aside from a bit of mellowing (the same
might be said of Derek Bailey, who's another trend-bucker), has the
essential content of Taylor's work changed much since @1970? I don't
think so. I don't mean this, at all, as a criticism, it's just that the
'innovation' aspect which, again, I don't consider to be of prime
importance, is no longer very present. The astonished reaction that one
might have had upon first hearing 'Unit Structures' in 1966 isn't
likely, it seems to me, to be repeated with regards to Taylor. Which, I
stress again, is fine.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 21:48:04 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Garlands

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Can anyone comment on Peter Garland's Avant release? I came across his
> name again in the new Harry Partch biography (required reading, by the
> way) and wonder if his work bears any relation to HP's.

Not in the least. Peter Garland is one of my good friend's uncles actually
so I know quite a lot about him. However, I haven't heard the Avant disc
but I was just given a copy of the one on New Albion called 'Walk Into
Beauty' which has two solo piano pieces performed by Aki Takahashi and
another piece performed by the Abel/Steinberg/Winant Trio. His music is
very influenced by Native American music and demonstrates a simplified
structure. Much of his music since the 70's could be called "a return to
radical consonance". Almost new-agey if that doesn't scare you off... sort
of like Cage's early piano works like "In A Landscape" (but of course very
different... you know what I mean) .You can find a very informative
biography and discography at the New Albion website
(http://www.newalbion.com/artists/garlandp/).

Another cool thing about him my friend told me... While Peter was attending
school (Exeter I believe) there was a dress code which required all the
young men to wear ties. Since it didn't exactly specify what a tie *was*,
Peter went through high school wearing a cow bell.

I'm pretty sure there is no relation with the other guy you mentioned or I
would have heard about it. I'll ask and be sure to let you know if it is
otherwise.

                                        -Tom Pratt


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #540
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