home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
zorn-list
/
archive
/
v02.n539
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
1998-11-30
|
21KB
From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #539
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, December 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 539
In this issue:
-
Re: Brian's Braxton favs
Re: Brian's Braxton favs
Re: Brian's Braxton favs
Has John Zorn became dull?
Re: musique concrete (was braxton)
Companion Trio
Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
lamp shea.
zorn's influence on us?!
Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
12/5/98: Daniel Carter & Saturnalia String Trio in Brooklyn +...
Frisell/ Youth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:07:00 -0500
From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs
>Date: Mon, 30 Nov 98 14:44:57 -0500
>From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
>Subject: Re[2]: braxton
>
>At 12:26 AM 11/30/98, andrew johnny shay. wrote:
>
>>Where does one start with Braxton?
>
> I know, I know, it's a list, but dammit it's Braxton and he's worth
> it! *ahem* My dozen most beloved releases:
>
> New York, Fall, 1974 Arista *
> Dortmund (Quartet) 1976 hat Hut
> For Alto Delmark *
> Trio + Duet Sackville *
> Willisau (Quartet) 1991 hat Art
> 7 Compositions (Trio) 1989 hat Art
> Sax Improvisations-Series F Inner City *
> Compositions 10 + 16 (+101) hat [now]
> 19 (Solo) Compositions 1988 New Albion
> Eight (+3) Tristano Comps hat Art
> Creative Orchestra (Koln) 1978 hat Art
> Solo (London) 1988 Leo
>
> * unavailable on CD, as far as I know.
>
> Ah, that feels better....
>
Solo (London) 1988 on Leo ? Hmmm, I'm not aware of this one. Are you
sure this is on Leo, and not... what? Impetus maybe?
Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because
though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get
these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be
able to find it.
I wouldn't change Brian's list much, but would add that the duet with Georg
Graewe on OKKA is really good. And the Quartet Santa Cruz set on Hat, the
last performance of the band with Hemingway, Crispell, and Dresser, is also
great, and somewhat cheaper than Willisau. But once you get one, you'll
want the other.
Dan
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:25:16 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs
Dan Given wrote:
> Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because
> though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get
> these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be
> able to find it.
FWIW, Cadence lists a lot of hatWhatever recordings that are otherwise
unavailable, so maybe North Country has some stashed away (though my
scanning eye didn't see this one). See http://cadencebuilding.com/
> I wouldn't change Brian's list much, but would add that the duet with Georg
> Graewe on OKKA is really good. And the Quartet Santa Cruz set on Hat, the
> last performance of the band with Hemingway, Crispell, and Dresser, is also
> great, and somewhat cheaper than Willisau. But once you get one, you'll
> want the other.
Well, I've momentarily (I hope) broken my self-imposed CD fast and
ordered Willisau. Much as I'm fascinated by what I read about Braxton
(I have five books on him at this point!), his music has never quite
clicked for me, so I'm hoping that this will serve as the auditory
Holy Rosetta Grail Stone...
- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 00:44:08 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs
In a message dated 12/1/98 12:26:59 AM, jzitt@humansystems.com wrote:
<<> Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because
> though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get
> these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be
> able to find it.
FWIW, Cadence lists a lot of hatWhatever recordings that are otherwise
unavailable, so maybe North Country has some stashed away (though my
scanning eye didn't see this one). See http://cadencebuilding.com/>>
I've never seen this one listed in Cadence since the first edition of the
Penguin Guide called it the best intro to Braxton.
speaking of the Penguin Guide, anyone know when the new edition is going to be
released here in the US? it's out overseas already.
and speaking of Cadence, Walter Horn gives the best review I've ever seen in
there to Simon Fell's _Compilation III: Composition 30_ in the new December
issue. this is the same Fell record I was raving about here a month or two
ago. the following are a few selected quotes from Horn's review:
"the monumental Composition No. 30 is, in my view, an important monument in
the history of late 20th century music."
"In this single piece one finds not only Ives, Webern, Cage, Ligeti, Partch
and Boulez, but also Ellington, Mingus, Sousa, Sun Ra, and even a little urban
blues. It's as if all of Braxton's varied and copious output were microscoped
into one audacious work for large ensemble."
"Fell seems to me to have created a piece of music on the level of Boulez' Pli
Selon Pli and Ives' Holiday Symphony. It's what Bernstein and Berio may have
been trying (unsuccessfully) to do with their Mass and Sinfonia (respectively)
and what Ornette Coleman and Butch Morris are striving for in Skies Of America
and in countless large ensemble 'conductions'. Fell's Composition No. 30 is
nothing less than a summing up and distillation of the experimental strains of
Western music at the end of the millennium. It's a resounding success."
and it ends with: "Composition No. 30 should not only be considered as one of
the top ten recordings of the year, but (Move over all you Cardews,
Birtwhistles and Ferneyhoughs!) as one of the most important musical works to
come out of Britain since the Sixties."
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:11:32 +0100
From: Anders Fransson <anders.fransson@bibl.hoe.se>
Subject: Has John Zorn became dull?
During the complete 80=B4s and in the first few years of the 90=B4s, unti=
l
1993-94, Zorn was the creator of several innovative works. You had every
reason for calling him a renewer. If the basis of Zorn is the jazz
- - there can be some objections to that - few people has made such a
succesful mixture of genres as he has. I can recall just a few names,
Miles, Sun Ra and Duke Ellington, and they didn=B4t do it to the same
degree as
John Zorn. Or rather, Zorn takes an active part in a number of musical
styles. To be succesful in creating chamber music and trashmetal of the
utmost quality in the same time is really not grated to everyone.
But now for some years, his music seems to be just reiterations of his
earlier works. If you think of the fact that the creative period of Zorn
has lasted for fifteen years, you must consider that this is longer than
most of the so called renewers. It is typical of the renewers to
introduce a new idea and then repeat it over and over again for the rest
of their lives. What once was avant-garde finally becomes nothing but a
tiring grimace.
The artist is assimilated in the establishiment and wins prices... Is
this what is going to happen to Zorn?
It=B4s interesting to follow the letters to the Zorn-list. I joined the
list about two years ago. In those days more then half of the letters
concerned John Zorn. Today has, at the most, a third of the letters
anything to do with Zorn. Some news on the list are those comments on
what Zorn was dressed like, his hair style etc., in his concerts. Has a
serious debate ended up with idol worship?
I certainly still keep up to date with what Zorn is doing, but it was a
long time ago since I bought one of his records. The reason for that is
to some extent the increased speed of the production. The quality is
certainly still high, but it is reiterations!!! And isn=B4t Masada an
increadebly overestimated group?
Anders
- --
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
Anders Fransson, Biblioteket, Hogskolan i Orebro,
701 82 Orebro, Sweden.
e-mail: anders.fransson@bibl.hoe.se
Phone +46 19 30 38 66
Fax +46 19 30 38 55
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 06:24:41 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: musique concrete (was braxton)
At 12:26 AM 11/30/98 -0600, andrew johnny shay. wrote:
>
>Lastly, how about some good musique concrete outings?
The Wire had a primer on concrete a few issues ago which covered the early
years fairly well. For more recent stuff it's hard to go wrong with
anything on the Empreintes Digitales label out of Montreal
(www.cam.org/~dim), especially artists like Robert Normandeau, Christian
Calon, or Paul Dolden. If you can still track down the third in the
Asphodel Drone set (3 CDs, Storm of Drones, I think), this contains one
disc of various ED artists (and it's a great set overall). Iancu
Dumitrescu is another name to check out, and there's a good e-zine at
www.furious.com/perfect which has a recent article about him. Another good
compilation set is the periodic Cultures Electroniques sets out of Bourges
(France), which has a contest (every year?) and releases the best in
various categories, typically on 2-CD sets. The most recent edition was
the 10th.
This topic comes up periodically; check the archives around last spring for
more recommendations.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 12:41:18 +0200
From: "Francisco Fonz-GarcΘs" <m145651202@abonados.cplus.es>
Subject: Companion Trio
Could anyone give any info about this group? I've just got their Cd on
Mass Particles and I think it's great. They are Evan Rapport (reeds),
Jerry Lim (guitars) and Bob Wagner (drums). Philly improv scene, I
think.
Thanks a lot
Francisco Fonz-GarcΘs
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 05:35:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
- ---Anders Fransson <anders.fransson@bibl.hoe.se> wrote:
> And isn't Masada an
> increadebly overestimated group?
I don't think I'd say "incredibly overestimated," if for no other
reason than just the sheer talent of the players involved, but no,
they're not nearly as cutting-edge as say Naked City or PainKiller --
and I don't know that they're necessarily meant to be.
==
Eric Martens
"When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to
take your word on that." -- Liz Phair
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 01:04:28 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
> I certainly still keep up to date with what Zorn is doing, but it was a
> long time ago since I bought one of his records. The reason for that is
> to some extent the increased speed of the production. The quality is
> certainly still high, but it is reiterations!!! And isn=B4t Masada an
> increadebly overestimated group?
Keep in mind that a lot of the stuff Zorn has been releasing lately IS fr=
om
the past (Painkiller box set, The Bribe, etc.)
And I don't understand, are you saying he has to be innovative with every
single thing he does? Can't you enjoy it simply for what it sounds like?=20
I don't really agree with your Masada comment either, their recordings an=
d
live shows are full of great playing and soloing all round, I think it
would be an insult to all involved to say they are overestimated.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:32:01 -0500
From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: lamp shea.
>Anyway, for all those who
>hesitate to buy another Shea ablum, here is my suggestion: Shock Corridor,
>Prisoner, Classical Works, and I are all great, but the essential albums
>are Hsi-Yu Chi, Tower of Mirrors, Satyricon, The Poem De Nuestra Signora,
>and his collaboration with DJ Grazhoppa, Down River Up Stream.
Hello,
I have Down River Up Stream and the Mort Aux Vaches cds and quite enjoy
both of those (plus the remix of DJ Vadim that Shea/Grazhoppa did is truly
wonderful).
Was considering getting The Poem De ... next, but I can't find it. Anyone
know of a US mailorder store that carries it??
Plus how is the recent Fear No Fall, which features David Shea, DJ Low, Jim
O'Rourke, etc??
unrelated::Anyone interested in Ostertag's _Getting A Head_ lp, _Sooner or
Later_ cd, or _Burns Like Fire_ cd? I'd be willing to trade them for more
David Shea releases or the like....
JJTar.
- ---
Peace Hugs and Unity Jason J. Tar
W. W. J. D?
(What would Jason Do?)
http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason
ICQ@13792120
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 17:05:43 +0000
From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li>
Subject: zorn's influence on us?!
hi all you fellow zornsters.
there's one thing i've wanted to ask all of you quite some time ago.
do any of you on the list feel that john zorn has had an (important ?)
impact on their lives? that maybe even goes beyond enjoying / listening
to his music. when i moved into my new flat i realized that i'd bought
quite a bit of literature on the kristallnacht after i'd bought jz's cd
of the same title. and, even though i'd always liked the mike hammer tv
series, it was jz who got me into spillane's writing. recently,
duras:duchamp (sp?) made me go out and buy duras' "the malady of death".
reflecting on this, it does seem to me that zorn's influenced parts of
my life quite a bit.
looking forward to your answers.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 98 11:39:55 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re: Has John Zorn became dull?
Anders opens up some areas which I think are of interest generally,
though whether or not they apply to JZ is arguable.
Innovation. Although I imagine most of us would admit to some frisson
of extra pleasure upon hearing music we consider innovative,
personally, that aspect is of far less importance than whether or not
the work is, in a word (substitute your own superlative) beautiful.
Ideally, of course, one might desire both; this is one reason why a
given great musician's early, "ground-breaking" works are specially
prized, because that extra element of excitement of the "new" is
present. For a crass example, as expertly as Supersax may have
reconstituted Charlie Parker solos, they necessarily sounded bland
next to the original, lacking, perhaps among other things, the spark
of joy Parker was presumably experiencing in the midst of the creation
of "new" art. On my drive to and from Rochester for Thanksgiving, I
was playing my Roscoe Mitchell compilation tape. Now, as much as I
love most of his output, his playing on 'Solo' (from 'Old Quartet) or
'Thkhe' had a force and inspired beauty that, for me, is not _quite_
present on later work, even things I think are great, like 'Snurdy
McGurdy...' or 'The Flow of Things'. In fact, for most great creative
artists, I think if one could extremely over-simplify and graph their
output along an age/quality axis it would look something like:
Q ****
U *** ** **
A *** ** *** *
L *** ** **
I **** **
T ********
Y
20 30 40 50 60 70
AGE
(Hope this translated to various mail readers)
Obviously, this is a generalization and abstraction, but I think it
largely holds true that most innovative work (in almost _all_ fields,
not just art) is accomplished by folk in their 20's and 30's (spoken
as a 44-year old painter). It's pretty rare that you find someone in
their 50's coming up with ideas that "shake the foundations" of the
area in which they work. It's also rare that, looking back over a
given artist's career, you find his/her "best" works done late in that
life. There are, of course, exceptions (I'm thinking of Harry Partch,
though even there one could argue that the conceptual innovations that
ultimately led to masterworks like 'Delusion of the Fury'--composed
when he was over 60--were derived at a much younger age), but I think
this is a generally accurate representation of the "average" creative
life.
Trying valiantly to bring this back around to Zorn, if he does nothing
else "innovative" (and I might argue that innovation is not negated by
the tunefulness of, say, the 'Bar Kokhba' projects), he's had a pretty
good run at things. If Masada's musical innovations are minor, it's
still one of the most enjoyable, consistently exciting bands out
there, and that's enough. If Zorn creates a major innovation when he's
50, I'll be pleasantly surprised; if not, there's likely a 15 year old
out there somewhere who will fill the gap. If Zorn, on his 60th
birthday, is releasing 'Masada 244' which I'm unable to distinguish
from 'Masada 3', well, that's the way it goes. I don't run out to buy
every new release from Roscoe anymore but, at the same time, I don't
hold him up to unreasonable expectations. He's done more than enough
by me.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:11:43 EST
From: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com
Subject: 12/5/98: Daniel Carter & Saturnalia String Trio in Brooklyn +...
This Saturday night, Dec. 5th at 9pm,
Come on out to see OR tune in to Free 103.9 FM (Brooklyn's pirate radio)
to hear:
DANIEL CARTER AND THE SATURNALIA STRING TRIO
(Jonathan LaMaster-violin, Vic Rawlings-cello, Mike Bullock-double bass)
with
THE BROOKLYN-BOSTON 3
(Charles Waters-reeds, Jane Wang-double bass, Andrew Barker-drums)
We would LOVE a live studio audience, too! So come on out for a 9pm show at
97 South 6th Street (between Bedford and Barry), Williamsburg, NY. The
station/loft is upstairs on the 2nd floor. Hope to see you there!
Jonathan LaMaster
Info@sublingual.com
http://www.sublingual.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 98 14:33:22 -0300
From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar
Subject: Frisell/ Youth
Hello Zornies!
Last Saturday night, on Sony TV Channel (Buenos Aires) I could see for
my first time ever a Bill Frisell's live performance.
I was absolutely impressed with all musicians on stage: Bill, Jerry
Douglas, dobro; Viktor Krauss, bass; they played 3 or 4 songs from
Nashville CD.Outstanding.
Afterwards, Eyvind Kang (violin), Curtis Folwkes (trombone) and Ron
Miles (trumpet) joined them to play a song from Quartet cd. Amazing.
Finally, with my heart beating at high speed, the camera began shooting
the right side of the stage and there was Robin Holcomb, who joined all
the group to sing the last song she sings in Nashville. Excellent.
Sorry I can't remember the titles.
Then a man on stage said that an experimental group was going to play:
they were Sonic Youth. I listened to their first song, then I turn off
my TV.
It's almost impossible to see any film from Andrei Tarkovsky and then
Rambo.
Anyone know if this Frisell show is on video?
Hugo (from Argentina)
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #539
*******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@lists.xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.
Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com