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Zorn List Digest       Monday, November 23 1998       Volume 02 : Number 533



In this issue:
-
       Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead"
       good ol' mike patton
       RE: good ol' mike patton
       Re:  pizzolla redux
       WHY ZORN IS ZORN
       cover art, sound quality (was something about Leng Tche)
       Re:  good ol' mike patton
       Re: good ol' mike patton
       RE: good ol' mike patton
       Re: good ol' mike patton
       Re: good ol' mike patton
       WHY ZORN IS ZORN
       leng t'che etc.
       Re: good ol' mike patton
       Re: leng t'che etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:37:18 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead"

I don't have the official ESP versions of Ayler's Slug's stuff. My versions
are those MusicMagic (or MagicMusic, or whatever they call themselves) CDs,
one called Truth is Marching In and the other is Black Unity or something
along those lines, they're at home and I'm not. As has already been mentioned,
the sound is terrible, and I don't assume that the ESP versions are
significantly better (they'd have to be from an altogether different source).
It's a pretty sure bet that the boot versions are simply mastered from some
version of the ESP LPs (for all I know, the BASE reissues).

The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is
heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this
music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less
noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what
I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of
Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . .

Dave Royko

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:40:04 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: good ol' mike patton

> Yup, it
>  was good ol' Mike Patton, with a piece for screams, guitar and turntable --
>  anyone know whether this was the piece he premiered with Zorn a few months
>  back? In any case, it was pretty much the same performa as the
>  Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert: big shrill slabs of power-electronics,
>  sustained guitar feedback, Patton screaming his face blue.

who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the
turntables? patton has premiered a few pieces within the past months. he
premiered feedback etudes at the knitting factory in march (i believe) and
another piece  for small ensemble entitled "peeping tom" at the victo
festival. and then there was another piece maybe the day before or after the
patton/lombardo/zorn show entitled something like "phono sanjo". is this the
piece you are speaking of?

anyhow does anyone have a copy of the zorn/lombardo/patton show,the phono
sanjo (?) piece or the piece he premiered at this recent yo la tengo show?

also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really
care for patton's work. any comments? thanks
peace
jt

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:27:37 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:40 AM

> who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the
> turntables?

I'm afraid I don't know; Patton wasn't even introduced or announced, he just
came up on stage. Physical descriptions, then: the turntablist was a
heavy-set guy with curly black hair; the guitarist was an Asian guy wearing
an allergy mask.

I don't know if this was a new piece; I seem to remember that Phono Sanjo
may have been for voice and turntable as well (I wasn't there). Someone
posted a great review of the Xu Feng / Phono Sanjo date on this list
previously...

Speaking of physical appearances (with all due respect), I had no idea Jad
Fair was starting to look like Charles Nelson Reilly! =) Those old photos of
him as a skinny geek are clearly outdated...

Later,
Ben

np: portishead, "roseland nyc live"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:45:21 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  pizzolla redux

>The three records are _Tango: Zero Hour_, _The Rough Dancer and the Cyclical
>Night_, and _La Camorra: La Soledad de la Provocacion Apasionada_. Easily the
>best Piazzolla records, I've heard, especially Tango.


And "Tango Zero Hour" was just reissued by Nonesuch in the past month or
two.  I also highly recommend the live album on Hemisphere though I can
never remember the title.

LT
- ------------------------------------------------------
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4

New at the Funhouse website:  Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n'
Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:31:28 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: WHY ZORN IS ZORN

     No great creator (musician, scientific, etc.) was prompted by a
desire to please his fellow man.
     His truth was his only motive.  His work was his only goal.  His
creation; not the benefits others derived from it.  Zorn holds his truth
against all things and against all men.  He went ahead whether others
agreed with him or not, with his integrity as his only banner.  He
served nothing and no one.  He lived for himself and only by living for
himself was he able to conceive of the things which are the glory of his
music and man.  Such is the nature of achievement.  Man's Brain is his
only weapon.  The mind is an atribute of the individual - there is no
such thing as a collective mind.  This is why Naked City works. (Zappa
too, among others)  It's brought under the vision of one man.  Zorn
thinks, and thinks on his own.  The reasoning mind cannot be
subordinated to the needs, opionions, or wishes of others.
     Zorn stands on his own Judgement, the "pop star" or parasite
follows the opinions of others.  Zorn creates, the parasite copies.
Zorn produces much work while the parasite loots.  Zorn's is the
conquest of nature, the parasite, the conquest of man.  The Creator
(Zorn) requires independence, he doesn't serve or rule, he wishes to
deal with musician's by free exchange and voluntary choice.  In other
words he has terms and at the same time he respects the musicians terms.


}Theodorus--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:13:00 -0500 (EST)
From: William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: cover art, sound quality (was something about Leng Tche)

> The only cover art that even comes close
> to inspiring the same discomfort was a Rip, Rig and Panic album cover with
> the baboon crossing the life-death boundary (but not until I learned that
> story either).

There's a pretty nasty cover, maybe not as disturbing as these (?) in the
November new releases section at Forced Exposure (www.forcedexposure.com).
Can't remember the band name, but if you scroll through I guarantee you'll
know what I'm talking about.

> The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is
> heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this
> music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less
> noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what
> I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of
> Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . .

I notice all sorts of screwed-up stuff every time I listen to Julius
Hemphill's _Reflections_, which is definatley off of a record and not even
a good one.  This one is being cut out and I still think its worth
getting, especially for the price and considering it might not be in print
for awhile, but what would it take for someone to reissue those
Arista/Freedom CDs properly (aside from Cecil Taylor's Nefertiti)? Uggh.

WY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:49:09 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  good ol' mike patton

In a message dated 11/23/98 1:44:27 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

>also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really
>care for patton's work. any comments? thanks

I hate his guts...ha ha ha.

LEVI
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:25:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton

In terms of Patton, the members of this list probably "don't care for
him" because his "non-rock" work seems way to have been created in an
attempt to go above his musical talents.

It seems to me we had a discussion about it around the time of his (and
Zorn's) appearance at this year's FIMAV. Briefly Zorn's "classical" piece
at Victo seemed to be a pastiche of a variety of modern composers.
Patton's, with nearly the same personnel seemed to be a pastiche of a
pastiche.

Zorn's work with Mori (on turntable) and Patton (on "vocals[sic] and
turntable), was mixed. Mori was interesting, Zorn's work on alto
saxophone hair raising and Patton seemed to be noise-making to keep up.

His other piece with an endless bank of amplifiers magnifying his screams
was just irritating  and offensive. It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't
much else either.

And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being
anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. I've
heard and appreciated "Ascension", works by Cecil Taylor and Albert
Ayler and Zorn. I've seen and enjoyed David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Prima
Materi, Archie Shepp in the 1960sa and the Little Huey Ork; I was
impressed when I saw the Soft Machine in 1968 and with the original
Sex Pistols tunes, "19th Nervous Breakdown", "Brainwashed", the early
Mothers of Invention's "outside" experiments and in 1967 sat right in
front of Eric Clapton's amp when I saw Cream in a small NY club.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:33:08 -0500 (EST)
From: [e-mail] (Harry Hulsizer)
Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton

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Sounds like the guitarist from Melt Banana. Don`t know about the dj
though. David Shea maybe?


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From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
To: "Zorn List" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:27:37 -0800
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:40 AM

> who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the
> turntables?

I'm afraid I don't know; Patton wasn't even introduced or announced, he just
came up on stage. Physical descriptions, then: the turntablist was a
heavy-set guy with curly black hair; the guitarist was an Asian guy wearing
an allergy mask.

I don't know if this was a new piece; I seem to remember that Phono Sanjo
may have been for voice and turntable as well (I wasn't there). Someone
posted a great review of the Xu Feng / Phono Sanjo date on this list
previously...

Speaking of physical appearances (with all due respect), I had no idea Jad
Fair was starting to look like Charles Nelson Reilly! =) Those old photos of
him as a skinny geek are clearly outdated...

Later,
Ben

np: portishead, "roseland nyc live"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -


- --WebTV-Mail-808693362-940--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:39:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton

In a message dated 11/23/98 5:27:23 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<His other piece with an endless bank of amplifiers magnifying his screams
was just irritating  and offensive. It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't
much else either.>>

I didn't like it much either, but I really was into it for the first five or
ten minutes. the problem is that it was an attempt to make noise a la Merzbow
or Masonna, but with nowhere near the range of ideas that those musicians have
in their best work.

<<And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being
anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. I've
heard and appreciated "Ascension", works by Cecil Taylor and Albert
Ayler and Zorn. I've seen and enjoyed David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Prima
Materi, Archie Shepp in the 1960sa and the Little Huey Ork; I was
impressed when I saw the Soft Machine in 1968 and with the original
Sex Pistols tunes, "19th Nervous Breakdown", "Brainwashed", the early
Mothers of Invention's "outside" experiments and in 1967 sat right in
front of Eric Clapton's amp when I saw Cream in a small NY club.>>

none of this is noise, though, and none of it is more than very indirectly
related to what Patton was, albeit very poorly, trying to do.

on a medium-sized horse,
Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:01:07 +0100
From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton

>also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really
>care for patton's work. any comments? thanks
>peace
>jt


Well, I don't really know his work, as he seems to improvise alot on stage
but never get things on studio. What I know of him (besides FNM, obviously,
which I don't like) makes me think of him with high regard. He is maybe a
little pretentious in his music, but aren't they all?

MIKE PATTON: PRANZO OLTRANZISTA - A good album with a good concept. A bunch
of stars (Friedlander, Winant, Zorn, and Ribot(?)), playing good
experimental. Doesn't blow my mind, but it's still a good listen.

WEIRD LITTLE BOY - This has to be one of the most controverse albums
discussed on this list (I remember even Trey Spruance wrote to the list once
explaining his rantings about the album). It features Mike Patton, Zorn,
Spruance, Winant and Chris Cochrane, but Patton's job in the albums is quite
indefinite. I still like it. I guess he's the one whistling in the title
track.

JOHN ZORN: ELEGY - Patton participates butdoesn't take an active roll. His
screams in the end of the third track simply give me chills, and I think I
never heard nobody scream like that, not even Y. Eye.

MR BUNGLE - simply beautiful.

MR. BUNGLE: DISCO VOLANTE - one of the best records I have ever heard.

I think that's all I know. Considering specially the last two and the first,
I think I can consider Mike Patton a fairly good composer.

Felix
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:53:42 -0600 (CST)
From: [e-mail] (Theo Klaase)
Subject: WHY ZORN IS ZORN

A friend reminded me that I forgot to mention that I paraphrased alot of
what I wrote from a speech taken from a book called "the Fountainhead"
by Ayn Rand.
     I find Zorn is a real life Howard Roark.


}Theodorus--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 19:48:45 -0400
From: [e-mail] (bob burnett)
Subject: leng t'che etc.

The leng t'che prompts this question:

Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"?  I read a brief  review of it
describing it as "dark".  As a matter of fact, I know very little about the
Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd only)
and would appreciate a tutorial.

Thanks.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:40:30 -0800
From: "ADM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton

I don't think it could've been the guitarist from Melt Banana.  They played
here a little more than a week ago and were going back to Japan after
leaving the Bay Area/California.  I saw Phono Sanjo in September and it was
Patton (voice), Winant (percussion), and a third member whose name I don't
recall on turntables.  Anyway... no guitar in Phono Sanjo.  BTW... It'd be
strange for David Shea to come all the way into S.F. and not be on the bill
or anything.

- -Aaron

- -----Original Message-----
From: Harry Hulsizer <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:34 PM
Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton


Sounds like the guitarist from Melt Banana. Don`t know about the dj
though. David Shea maybe?




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 17:50:27 -0800
From: "Christian Heslop" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: leng t'che etc.

Absinthe is a fantastic album. I don't have it here with me as I have
loaned it to someone. That and the fact that I have not owned it for very
long precludes me from giving you a more specific review. Knowing a little
about the story of Tom Verlaine and Baudelaire actually did seem to enhance
my interpretation of this music. Perhaps more in a way that I projected.
It's a great album but perhaps not particularly representative of the rest
of the Naked City work. Much of Absinthe is more eerily pastoral than one
would expect of the Naked City crew.
A good album to start with would be "The Grand Guignol". I am however
speaking from a position of relative ignorance as these plus the Elektra
album are the only Naked City albums that I own. I would like to hear other
recommendations.

- ----------
> From: bob burnett <[e-mail]>
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: leng t'che etc.
> Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 3:48 PM
>
> The leng t'che prompts this question:
>
> Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"?  I read a brief  review of it
> describing it as "dark".  As a matter of fact, I know very little about
the
> Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd
only)
> and would appreciate a tutorial.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #533
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