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1998-11-22
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #532
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, November 23 1998 Volume 02 : Number 532
In this issue:
-
Re: leng t'che
Help! Alboth!
John Oswald Mailing List
WFMU Record Fair
Re: leng t'che
Re: leng t'che
Re: leng t'che
Nuovo Consonanza
Re: Nuovo Consonanza
Re: leng t'che
RE: leng t'che; weird little boy
Re: leng t'che; weird little boy
Re: leng t'che; weird little boy
Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
Heiner Goebbels was Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
david murray/dragon blue
Bill Frisell
Re: leng t'che
Ribot scores
Re: leng t'che
Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:55:23 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
At 11:31 AM 11/21/98 -0800, Benito Vergara wrote:
>
>Is "Leng T'che" worth getting for $14.95? As much as I like Naked City, I'm
>not totally sure about a single half-hour composition (I don't own Black Box
>either, and I don't know what the Melvins sound like). Any opinions?
>
I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to
Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't), you
may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but if
Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:40:08 -0500
From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor)
Subject: Help! Alboth!
I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any distro that
would be able to hook me up with a copy of "Leibfield" by the swiss band Alboth!
I tried Relapse records mailorder, but they sent me the wrong disc...and
their label, PDCD doesn;t seem to be too swift on updating the web page at all.
if you can help, please lemme know...
thanks,
adam
bobonic@westol.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 13:33:21 -0500
From: Peter Risser <risser@goodnews.net>
Subject: John Oswald Mailing List
Hey,
For those who are interested, I finally managed to set up a John Oswald
Mailing list.
It's through OneList, so there are ads and stuff associated with it, but,
hey, it was free and the only place I could find where I could set one up.
Anyway, if you want to subscribe, there's two ways to go:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/plunderphonia
or send mail to
plunderphonia-subscribe@onelist.com
In any case, I hope it will engender discussion on obvious stuff like,
what's John up to these days, and where can I get a hold of Plunderphonics,
but also, discussions on appropriated and sampled music in general.
Thanks, and tell anyone you know who may be interested.
Thanks!
Peter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:54:50 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: WFMU Record Fair
Most NYC area folk may already be aware, but in case you're not, this is
a fine place to locate obscure vinyl or collection gap fillers at,
often, reasonable prices, if you can stand the crowds. It's continuing
(I _think_) tomorrow on West 19th st between 6th & 7th Aves (I forget
the exact address--closer to 6th on the South side of the block--follow
the record geeks). Well worth checking out. My swag from this afternoon:
Jerome Cooper The Unpredictability of Predictability
Creative Constr. Co. Vol 2
David Garland Control Songs
Rzewski/Braxton/Eisler No Place to Go but Around
Xenakis Music Today, Vol 2 (on Angel)
Stockhausen/Xenakis/
Penderecki/Posseur The New Music (on RCA Victrola)
All for @ $50.
Brian Olewnick
NR: Harry Partch, A Biography by Bob Gilmore. Essential stuff.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:04:01 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
> I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to
> Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't),
you
> may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but
if
> Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one.
Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a
little bit more relevance.
Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the
piece?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:47:06 -0800
From: <sheepherder@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
i agree... eye's contribution to Leng T'che is minimal. i enjoy frisell and
baron wokring together on this dirge. although it is not an everyday listen.
- -patrick in portland
Julian wrote:
> Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a
> little bit more relevance.
>
> Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the
> piece?
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:56:54 +0100
From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
Regarding Leng T'che:
I have never heard that particular album. I think it's the only thing I have
never heard from Naked City (except Heretic, which I never heard, too). I
wonder, how is this compared to their other releases? And for those that
heard Heretic, I ask the same question.
Thanks
Felix
jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:48:47 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Nuovo Consonanza
After John Abbey's recommendation I got the Edition RZ self-titled disc
of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza and, of course,
absolutely love it. I just found that there is another disc by them on
Cramps called 'Musica Su Schemi'. Is this great as well?
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 11:35:26 EST
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: Nuovo Consonanza
In a message dated 11/22/98 11:07:50 AM, tpratt@smtc.net wrote:
<<After John Abbey's recommendation I got the Edition RZ self-titled disc
of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza and, of course,
absolutely love it. I just found that there is another disc by them on
Cramps called 'Musica Su Schemi'. Is this great as well?>>
yeah, it's pretty great. what I think I like even more (only heard it once so
far) is the newly released Franco Evangelisti double disc retrospective on
Edition RZ. Evangelisti is the leader of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova
Consonanza, as you're probably aware. the only other thing available by the
Gruppo (on CD, anyway) is one half of a twofer Ennio Morricone disc on Point,
_Giornata Nera Per L'Ariete/Gli Occhi Freddi Della Paura_. I can't give you
more details on this, as my copy is lent out, but it's pretty essential. since
it's a single soundtrack, it's more cohesive than the other Gruppo on disc.
Jon
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 15:05:06 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
At 11:04 AM 11/22/98 +1100, Julian wrote:
>
>Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a
>little bit more relevance.
>
>Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the
>piece?
Yeah, well, what the piece is about is also part of what makes me too
uncomfortable about the piece. The first time I had a look at one of the
pictures from that set was in one of those magazines that specializes in
fairly extreme stuff, and as the picture was all grainy (although fairly
good sized), I couldn't get an idea of what it was from a quick glance, so
I studied it fairly closely. Quite a shock when I figured out what it was!
And since I had studied it, it was firmly in my memory. I still find the
pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I respect (not
only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find
them fascinating and inspiring. The only cover art that even comes close
to inspiring the same discomfort was a Rip, Rig and Panic album cover with
the baboon crossing the life-death boundary (but not until I learned that
story either).
And maybe Eye isn't on the whole thing, but I find his work so difficult to
listen to for long periods that my lasting impression of this piece is his
screaming. Since Felix is asking for more of a description, it probably
starts with a duet between Baron and Frisell, very slow tempo (for Naked
City) but very intense, loud, and funereal. As Julian points out, the
soundtrack for an execution, not really like anything else NC did.
Heretic is the NC players in duets and trios, so the variety comes from the
different combinations. The smaller groups give this album an intimacy,
almost, that none of the other have. In recent listenings to this album,
I've even grown to respect what Eye does a little more (but it's in much
smaller doses than LT). What I like about NC is that every album is
different from every other, and even though I don't like Leng T'che, its
place in their work only increases the respect I have for the group as a
whole.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 13:08:57 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com>
Subject: RE: leng t'che; weird little boy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Caleb T. Deupree [mailto:cdeupree@erinet.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 12:05 PM
> I still find the
> pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I
> respect (not
> only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find
> them fascinating and inspiring.
Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it
this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was
it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?")
Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the
last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting
though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a
concert later that night)...
Which brings me to something slightly off-topic: no doubt the audience at
the Jad Fair / Yo La Tengo concert last night (at Slim's, in San Francisco)
was taken aback when the unannounced opening act came out on stage. Yup, it
was good ol' Mike Patton, with a piece for screams, guitar and turntable --
anyone know whether this was the piece he premiered with Zorn a few months
back? In any case, it was pretty much the same performance as the
Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert: big shrill slabs of power-electronics,
sustained guitar feedback, Patton screaming his face blue. (How does "Weird
Little Boy" compare to this, by the way? It keeps turning up in the used
bins now.)
All right, enough questions for now. =)
Later,
Ben
np: diamanda galas, "malediction and prayer"
http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:16:28 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy
Benito Vergara wrote:
> Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it
> this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was
> it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?")
I believe it was both actually.
> Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the
> last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting
> though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a
> concert later that night)...
If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to
find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course.
I love Leng T'Che. It's one of those discs I pop in ever couple months and
listen all the way through with the lights off. Freaks the shit out of me every
time.
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:03:02 EST
From: OnionPalac@aol.com
Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy
In a message dated 11/22/98 9*34*52 PM, you wrote:
<<I love Leng T'Che. It's one of those discs I pop in ever couple months and
listen all the way through with the lights off. Freaks the shit out of me
every
time.>>
It's good to hear that I am not alone!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:55:24 -0500
From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net>
Subject: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and
while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much
better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some
sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is
this just what Cassiber did...
Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'???
-Tom Pratt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:23:30 -0500
From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>
Subject: Heiner Goebbels was Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
Tom Pratt wrote:
> Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'???
I would tend to use the term 'good', not great, but most of the Goebbels
I've heard has at least something to recommend it. Worth hearing, IMHO,
are:
Goebbels Heart Eva
The Man in the Elevator ECM (Some great Don Cherry work)
Shadow/Landscape w/ Argonauts " (fun use of street convers.)
Ou bien le debarquement... "
Haven't heard anything more recent.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:36:23 -0800
From: <sheepherder@uswest.net>
Subject: david murray/dragon blue
i was hoping someone could describe david murray's DIW
releases. my local store had about 5 of them (tin cup?
maybe...plus others) and i am thinking about picking one
up. but at 21.99 i like to know a little about what it is
im buying unless it is on the Avant imprint. i buy anything
on Avant without hesitation....i just picked up Philip
Johnston's Big Trouble today, excellent..... also got new
Ruins "Vrresto", Frith/Ribot "Subsonic: Sounds of a Distant
Episode", and DNA (avant release with Mori, Hayward,
Lindsay).
OH!!!! does Dragon Blue have any other albums than the Avant
release???
thanks,
patrick in portland
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 21:03:12 -0600 (CST)
From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase)
Subject: Bill Frisell
"Before we were born"
What an amazing album.
All hail Joey Baron too.
}Theodorus--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 08:33:42 +0100 (MET)
From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
[Leng Tch'e]
> If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to
> find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course.
Given that it was released on the Japanese Toy's Factory label, I don't
think it is out of print. Japanese releases rarely go out of print, since they
just accumulate orders and re-press when the demand is high enough. Also, on
a fairly recent visit to Disk Union in Tokyo, I saw it still sitting in their
bins (as well as the Toy's Factory version of Torture Garden - I even saw that
one used for $6). It might be very expensive to order it from Disk Union,
though. I remember getting my copy for about $30 a couple of years ago.
When I first got it, Leng Tch'e was my absolute favorite Naked City album. It
was the first time I ever heard a composition cross the 30-minute border (a
strange feat, looking at my collection today). I really like the way the
piece develops, the long drawn-out sounds, the bashing, and then gradually
Zorn and Eye coming in to take the piece to frantic heights. I still love it
today, although I think my current favorite would be Grand Guignol.
And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD?
The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture
the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the
production that doesn't click.
Frankco.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:03:22 PST
From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com>
Subject: Ribot scores
Hey there,
Anyone out there who knows where to find Ribot tabs (or notes!) on the
net (specifically of his latest Cubanos Postizos project)or even a
mailing list ?
Thanks
Tim Schelfhout
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 01:17:42 -0800
From: <sheepherder@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: leng t'che
can someone tell me abouyt this new music for children release. this is not the
gary lucas album is it???? "new"? naked city tracks.....i am very interested.
please inform me on how to find this.
- -patrick in portland
> And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD?
> The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture
> the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the
> production that doesn't click.
>
> Frankco.
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 06:32:37 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo
At 06:55 PM 11/21/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote:
>I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and
>while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much
>better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some
>sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is
>this just what Cassiber did...
Cassiber's studio work is, IMHO, much better than the live performance
recorded on that album. Supposedly they brought texts to the studio and
then improvised over the texts, but the live album sounds pretty much like
most of the corresponding studio pieces, so I dunno...
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:37:19 EST
From: DRoyko@aol.com
Subject: Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead"
I don't have the official ESP versions of Ayler's Slug's stuff. My versions
are those MusicMagic (or MagicMusic, or whatever they call themselves) CDs,
one called Truth is Marching In and the other is Black Unity or something
along those lines, they're at home and I'm not. As has already been mentioned,
the sound is terrible, and I don't assume that the ESP versions are
significantly better (they'd have to be from an altogether different source).
It's a pretty sure bet that the boot versions are simply mastered from some
version of the ESP LPs (for all I know, the BASE reissues).
The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is
heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this
music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less
noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what
I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of
Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . .
Dave Royko
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #532
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