ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v02.n525

Internet Message Format | 1998-11-11 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #525
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest      Thursday, November 12 1998      Volume 02 : Number 525



In this issue:
-
       Re: Vado, uccido e torno.
       Minafra, Actis Dato, and other fun Italian music
       Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]
       naked city question
       Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]
       No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: odds and ends]
       Re: Pino Minafra
       Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]
       Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits
       Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]
       Who is Kurt Weill?
       Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]
       Re: No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: odds and ends]
       Re: Who is Kurt Weill?
       [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 23:56:48 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno.

In a message dated 11/11/98 7:38:06 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<I was off and on about the Schiano record on Victo--is this
representative?>>

I saw the show that this CD was recorded at. my impression at the time was
that Schiano was almost more of a figurehead and inspiration than a typical
leader. he spurred on Evan Parker, Barry Guy and Paul Lovens and they all did
some really interesting things, but I'm not sure how much Schiano himself has
left in terms of chops.

<<Also, please recommend some specific Gebbia releases;
another guy I've been trying to get around to hearing.>>

The recent solo record on Rastascan is pretty enjoyable; that's the only one
of his I've heard.

Jon

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:03:42 -0500
From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Minafra, Actis Dato, and other fun Italian music

> Brian Olewnick  and  Ken Waxman discussed:
>>
>> I haven't heard of anything new by Pino.
>
>> I trust you already have his discs with the Italian Instabile Orchestra
> (one of which is on ECM of all places) and his trio session with  >
Reijeser and Bennik on Leo. I'd welcome others.

There are two earlier Minafra discs on Splasc[h].  Colors (SPlasch 108) is
a quintet, I like it a lot.  More of a 'jazz' record than Sudori, but
definitely has that wacky Italian feel.  Antonello Salis (piano) and
VIncenzo Mazzone (drums) are the only names I recognize on it.  The other
one is Minafra with the December Jazz trio. I can't remember who they are,
and it is stuck away on my hard to access, don't listen to them, shelf.
Pretty plain, bad sound.

Hey Ken, did you see Minafra Sud Ensemble in that god awful tent during the
TO jazz fest about 3 years ago?  Great show, blows away the Sudori disc.
It was the same day as the Medeski Martin Wood show, which to me seemed
kind of juvenile. Kind of a look at the cool things I can do, I can bow my
bass, I have some little percussion instruments, I don't have a lot of
substance, but I'm learing some gimmicks.  Then come the Italians, to whom
gimmickry is a way of live, and it was phenomenal.

Live, they may be the heirs to what the Kollektief once was, and hopefully
can still be on a good day.

>> As for Carlo just heard a track of his on a community radio jazz show this
>> morning callewd "Baghdad Blues," but I'm not sure whether
>> it's new or old. Get his solo CD on Leo if you don't alreadyt have it.
>
>"Baghdad Blues" is from the fine quartet record of the same name on
>Splasc(h), a wonderful date that, as a capsule description, I think of
>as an Italian variant on classic Breuker. Similarly with 'Ankara Twist'
>on the same label. Have never gotten ahold of 'Urartu', the solo one on
>Leo though; been meaning to.

There's also Blue Cairo by the same band.  I see a comparison between this
band and Masada; there's  that middle eastern sound, with a bit of a move
north.

There's also a good Actis Dato on Pentaflowers called Tree with Laura
Culver on cello and Alex Rolle on percussion. Carlos sticks to bass
clarinet.  I guess there are others, and duets with Culver, but I haven't
heard them.  Tree is a bit more serious than the quartet music.  I think
last time I listened to it, it made a good companion piece for a Denis
Colin Trio album.

>> And while I'm offering up recommendations that no one really asked for,
>> other Italians to be investigated include Mario Schiano, Gianni Gebbia
>> and his excellent group Terra Arsa.
>
>I was off and on about the Schiano record on Victo--is this
>representative?

Haven't heard that one, but I have a handful of the Splasch ones.  I keep
buying them, hoping they live up to the potential of their personell.
Parker, Guy, Reijseger, Leandre, Moye, Schlippenbach, Lovens, Rutherford...
the list goes on and on, but they are, generally, boring as hell.  I don't
know how he could assemble the bands he does, and suck all the life out of
the performances.  I think I have finally given up, after about 7 or 8, and
will resist the temptation from now on.

>Also, please recommend some specific Gebbia releases;
>another guy I've been trying to get around to hearing.

H Portraits.  Recent solo on Rastascan.  Great music, crappy packaging though.
Body Limits. Older solo on Splasch.  Really short tunes, fragments of ideas
   almost, but phenomenal ideas and technique.
Capuccini King.  Trio on Splasch with Kowald and Sommer.

I highly recommend all three.

Other great Italian music:  Giancarlo Schiaffini has two really good
quintet discs on Pentaflowers. One a tribute to Monk, one to Bird.  They
sure ain't bebop though.  They come from the same spiritual direction, as
far as tributes go, as does George Lewis's Homage to Charles Parker.
(Which, just in case anyone on the list doesn't own it, should be owned by
all.)

Dan


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:31:54 -0500
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]

[e-mail] wrote:

> >What is the most crucial Napalm Death on CD?
>
> _from enslavement to obliteration/scum_
>
> two albums on one cd. how can u go wrong?

Definitely true if you are looking for the early blurt stuff, presumably
the stuff that first attracted Zorn.  "From Enslavement to Obliteration"
is especially important - it's the first of the band's two "definitive"
lineups: Lee Dorrian, Bill Steer, Shane Embury (the only still-current
Napalm) and Mick Harris.

But of the later ND discs (i.e., after the entire original membership
was gone), I still listen to "Utopia Banished" quite a lot.  A great
album, though not at all groundbreaking like the earliest stuff.  If
you're coming from a standard metal background, via the likes of
Metallica and Slayer, then "Utopia" is possibly your best way in, a few
steps beyond Slayer, ridiculously hard'n'fast.  (Pardon me while I go
find my copy...)

Still, the one thing about Napalm Death that still baffles me a bit is
that although there is not one single founding member remaining in the
group, despite a relatively short lifespan, fans seem to still treat the
current Napalm Death lineup (in place since "Utopia" circa 1992) as the
real band.  Could you imagine anyone accepting a Masada with four
completely different players, even if the changes were relatively
incremental as were those of Napalm Death (one new player on this album,
two new players on that album, and suddenly no original members left)?

I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik
Bullen and Mick Harris.  And they didn't even complete one album...
they recorded about half of "Scum" only.  Interestingly, around the time
that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members
reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis."

Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this
phenomenon?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Napalm Death - "Utopia Banished" (I wasn't kidding...)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:37:24 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: naked city question

I was just listening to a live recording from Chicago, and one piece is
introduced as something like "Tyla" by Reiner Rye, a group from Algeria. I
don't know what the spelling's meant to be, or anything about the original,
can anyone tell me?


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:39:45 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]

> Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this
> phenomenon?

Guns N Roses?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:21:46 -0800
From: cd <[e-mail]>
Subject: No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: odds and ends]

Steve Smith wrote:
> I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik
> Bullen and Mick Harris.  And they didn't even complete one album...
> they recorded about half of "Scum" only.  Interestingly, around the time
> that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members
> reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis."
>
> Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this
> phenomenon?

Quiet Riot after Kevin DuBrow was replaced by Paul Sortino.  (I'm almost
embarrassed that I know this, so I'll note that I was 12 years old when
it happened...)  I also doubt that the Duke Ellington or Count Basie
bands have any original members (please correct me if I'm wrong).

- -cd

NP: "Metal Health" (just kidding)
Actually NP:  Tim Berne/Bloodcount's "Saturation Point"

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:59:45 GMT0BST
From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Pino Minafra

Is this the rappin' trumpeter from the Gianluigi Trovesi Octet?
Regardless, I can recommend From G To G (on Soul Note) by Trovesi.
Sean Wilkie

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:22:43 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]

What to think of Death? There's not a single album (at least to my
knowledge) that's recorded with the same line-up. It's always Chuck
Chuldiner plus a completely new band. I admit this doesn't totally
correspond with the Napalm Death example, but maybe this can be a
nice discussion: Does the music suffer when there is a certain
concept, but always interpreted differently because the interpreters
rotate?
I.m.o. in the case of Death, every album gets better. I'm not
familiar enough with the repetroire of Napalm Death to have an
opinion on their oeuvre. Any thoughts on this?

> Still, the one thing about Napalm Death that still baffles me a bit is
> that although there is not one single founding member remaining in the
> group, despite a relatively short lifespan, fans seem to still treat the
> current Napalm Death lineup (in place since "Utopia" circa 1992) as the
> real band.  Could you imagine anyone accepting a Masada with four
> completely different players, even if the changes were relatively
> incremental as were those of Napalm Death (one new player on this album,
> two new players on that album, and suddenly no original members left)?


Jeroen

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 00:24:32 +1100
From: Peter Hollo <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits

Erm, well, re: the subject... and all this talk... Tom Waits isn't
actually Jewish is he? I mean, if he is, hey cool! but I wouldn't have
expected it.

Peter.
- --
Peter Hollo  [e-mail]  http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html
           FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet
                http://www.fourplay.com.au
"Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and
your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:58:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Joe Weil <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]

Steve,
I don`t want to sound too much of a nag. But the original line-up
I don`t think had Mick harris in it. There was a demo called
Hatred Surge that is pretty typically punk and I think Justin
Broadrick plays drums and "Rat" or something to that effect was
on Guitar. From my understanding, the band had an original line
up that did not record, then another line-up that recorded a demo
and then another line-up that recorded part of Scum. If you
heard the demo and then heard Scum you could make a good argument
that the changing cast had an effect on the music. But with
a band of kids that age, I might also think that the line -up
could have been the same and these guys go see Whitehouse in
concert after recording their demo and realize that there
are more extreme forms of music that their young ears have not
heard and they react to that as well.
Just a thought.
jw

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:21:20 -0500
From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Who is Kurt Weill?

I have heard his name come up in many situations. Can I get a little
background on this fellow? Album requests??

thanks,

JT

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:48:26 -0600 (CST)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends]

On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

> I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik
> Bullen and Mick Harris.  And they didn't even complete one album...
> they recorded about half of "Scum" only.  Interestingly, around the time
> that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members
> reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis."
>
> Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this
> phenomenon?

Menudo, of course.

I believe several Motown acts completely replaced their members over time.
One mightr stretch the point by considering Jefferson Airplane->Starship
to be one continuing band.

On the new music front, there were several disjunct MEVs, I believe.

There are a great number of precedents for bands replacing everybody but
the one member who owns the name (I understand that this happens a lot
with oldies and supposed reunions). Similarly, there are situations where
everyone but the name-owner get together, and you have a reformation of
the band under a different name (such as Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe).

And then there's Monty Cantsin...

- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:03:09 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Chris Barrett)
Subject: Re: No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: odds and ends]

>Quiet Riot after Kevin DuBrow was replaced by Paul Sortino.  (I'm almost
>embarrassed that I know this, so I'll note that I was 12 years old when
>it happened...)

Don't be.   It makes me feel better to know that many other people have
embarrassingly useless information about music in their heads too (Quick!
name all the original Asia members...now name the current ones.....scary
scary scary)

- -C

(god, that's even more embarrassing than I had intended.  I have to say
that I do not own any current Asia albums, just for the record -- but I  do
have the first one from when I was 12)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 11:30:35 -0500
From: Steve Spangler <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Who is Kurt Weill?

- --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Weill is the composer who worked with Berthold Brecht on The Threepenny
Opera, etc. The song "Mack the Knife" is one of their compositions.

If you're interested in an overview, there's a various artists
sampler--I think on Elektra Nonesuch--called Lost in the Stars, the
Music of Kurt Weill. It's actually a really nice record; Zorn plays on
it, I think Tom Waits, the Fowler Brothers, Sting, and Lou Reed--his
track just about sums up his career. I think Diamonda Galas is also on
the record (I can't remember). I always see the record in bargain bins
for $2.00 or so, and it's well worth it.

There's also a movie based on the Threepenny Opera called Mack the
Knife. It stars Roger Daltrey, and Raul Julia. It's O.K. but not a
crucial piece of work.

- ----Steve----

Jason Tors wrote:

> I have heard his name come up in many situations. Can I get a little
> background on this fellow? Album requests??
>
> thanks,
>
> JT
>
> -



- --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML>
Weill is the composer who worked with Berthold Brecht on The Threepenny
Opera, etc. The song "Mack the Knife" is one of their compositions.

<P>If you're interested in an overview, there's a various artists sampler--I
think on Elektra Nonesuch--called <I>Lost in the Stars, the Music of Kurt
Weill. </I>It's actually a really nice record; Zorn plays on it, I think
Tom Waits, the Fowler Brothers, Sting, and Lou Reed--his track just about
sums up his career. I think Diamonda Galas is also on the record (I can't
remember). I always see the record in bargain bins for $2.00 or so, and
it's well worth it.

<P>There's also a movie based on the Threepenny Opera called <I>Mack the
Knife. </I>It stars Roger Daltrey, and Raul Julia. It's O.K. but not a
crucial piece of work.

<P>----Steve----

<P>Jason Tors wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I have heard his name come up in many situations.
Can I get a little
<BR>background on this fellow? Album requests??

<P>thanks,

<P>JT

<P>-</BLOCKQUOTE>
 </HTML>

- --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:12:11 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrice L. Roussel [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:20 AM

> Is a Spice Girls fame what you consider not being "underrated"?

Well, no... but I'm all for artists getting more money. =) Seriously,
though, I think Waits is still relatively obscure (but certainly not for us
Zorn-listees, for which "obscure" means... well, I can't think of anything).
Unappreciated by the mainstream public, maybe?

> > np: bernhard gunter, "un peu de neige salie" (the cd's driving
> me crazy as I
> > write this)
>
> Good! it means that you have been successfull hearing something
> out of it :-).

There's certainly an element of -- wonder? puzzlement? what am I doing
listening to this? -- to the album. What it's done is certainly to heighten
my listening sensitivity; I'm beginning to detect patterns in the humming of
my computer's disk drive, or with the refrigerator (that's the part that's
driving me crazy). For those not familiar with Gunter's album (The Wire had
picked it recently as one of those "100 records that set the world on fire
while no one was listening"), it's all barely audible pops and buzzes. In
any case the effect is somewhat disorienting -- even more "ambient" than
"Thursday Afternoon?" -- and like Justin Bennett's "Cityscapes," the album
encourages the listener to generally "listen" differently.

Ok, enough with the OT blather...

Later,
Ben

np: "kranky kompilation"

http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/
ICQ# 12832406


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #525
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]