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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, October 21 1998      Volume 02 : Number 508



In this issue:
-
       Re: Locus Solus
       Sign of Four
       Re: Locus Solus
       Re: Thurston's label
       Re: winter winter
       re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus
       AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne
       Re: interesting hip-hop ???
       D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???)
       Re: Ill from music
       Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne
       Re: New Buckethead CD
       Re: Thurston's label
       Re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus
       Re: Locus Solus
       Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus
       Re: Portsmouth Sinfonia
       Re: Sign of Four
       Interesting Photek and meat.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:12:37 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Locus Solus

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

(a number of good points snipped)

> Does it mean that it is perfect? I won't go so far and I think that I
> understand some of your criticisms. This is maybe why I used "fresh" in my
> description: the music was not jaded and was full of promisses.

I think many of your points are valid, and perhaps again it's more a
matter of the expectations brought in to the listening. For me, having
decided to "dip his toes" into the rock or pop milieu, he strikes me as
a bit too tentative, too desirous of holding on to his improv and
experimental background. This is a balance he clearly worked out
successfully with NC and other projects later on. From around the same
time (earlier, in fact) I find that the first Golden Palominos record is
far more successful, working a similar, though less improv-oriented,
path. In fact it was this record, along with the Love of Life
Orchestra's 'Geneve' and 'Extended Niceties' and Branca's 'Ascension'
that got me back into rock-oriented stuff after a long hiatus listening
to nothing but jazz and classical. But, as I said, you points are well
taken; it's decidedly not jaded and that counts for a lot.

Brian Olewnick

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 18:51:57 -0400
From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sign of Four

[e-mail] writes:
> I think the harshest
> listening I've done in a while was Derek Bailey's Sign of Four.

[e-mail] writes:
>I'd have to second this.....I couldn't make it through the first disc alone.

I couldn't make it through the first ten seconds of each track.
Periodically, I take that thing off the shelf and say, "Well, I haven't
listened to 99% of this yet..."  I put it on and I've barely stepped
away from the stereo when...ugghhhhhh!  Stop! Stop!  For the love of God,
turn it off!!!
I take it off and replace it on the shelf.  I am in a sort of cold war with
that release.  Any long confrontation would result in mutually assured
destruction.

David "Sign of Four is plain old awful" K.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:01:32 -0400
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Locus Solus

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> In fact it was this record, along with the Love of Life
> Orchestra's 'Geneve' and 'Extended Niceties' and Branca's 'Ascension'
> that got me back into rock-oriented stuff after a long hiatus listening
> to nothing but jazz and classical.

Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love of
Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album that
may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red Meat".

If I ever put a rock project together, I wanna cover his "Life is
Boring" -- it's one of my favorite songs.

- --
- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:39:08 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thurston's label

[e-mail] wrote:

> as far as i know it's called "father yod" and is located in western mass.

Father Yod, as I recall, is Byron Coley's imprint.  Thurston's indie label
is/was called Ecstatic Peace.  When they did that series of "Ass Run" vinyl
slabs together it was Ecstatic Yod.  But the Sire imprint bears a different
name altogther... seems as if it might have been a three-letter name but I'm
completely spacing on it.  Perhaps when I've got more time and energy - I
just got home from a three-day business trip - I'll do a search on the CMJ
site, as perhaps it's archived somewhere (that's where I read the news in the
first place).

Steve

>
>
> -




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:11:12 -0400
From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: winter winter

Jason Tors wrote:

> Does Winter Winter have a web info page?

Not to my knowledge.

> I want to find out about where they came from.

The label is a continuation of what Stefan Winter used to do with his
JMT label before Polygram bought him out and killed it.  It is also an
expansion of that label's activities beyond jazz into classical, world
music, and less identifiable things.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:27:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus

A Modern Jazz Symposium Of Music And Poetry WIth Charles Mingus was a
studio recording - I'd guess recorded in'57 (I think it was released in
'59) - as it's line-up is similar to the previously mentioned East
Coasting and also the fantastic '57 albums Tijuana Moods and The Clown (w/
_improvised_ spoken word by Jean Shepherd). I've got a '94 CD reissue
of AMJSOMAPWCM on Bethlehem so I suspect it's out there somewhere (I also
have an '84 vinyl reissue - anybody want this?)... An interesting point of
the Eye/Naked City discussion that I don't think has been mentioned is
that Eye's compositions for the Boredoms are composed and then performed
again & again with very very little improvisation. (though unfortunately
not notated...:-) And Patrice wrote:
> LOCUS SOLUS is the only document of Zorn's attempt to do free improv (at least
> his form of) with some rock elements. I guess Zorn might have agreed with you
> because it is not only the first, it is also the last.
Au contraire Patrice - Painkiller has been one one of his longest-running
projects...and is in a sense simply another Locus Solus free-rock trio,
no?





- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:46:21 +0100
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne

> From: "M.Ho" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: ackchote
> Can someone describe the Ackchote/Ribot/Chadbourne album Lust Corner
> for me?
> Thanks,
> Mary

No problem, IMHO this album is definetly worthwile your money. The album
is based around Ackchote. Half the album, he plays with Ribot, the other
half, he plays with chadbourne.
What to expect???? Definitly no guitar noise, but well composed songs
(only for two songs, there is some free (noise) style, but it doesn't
take longer than 2 minutes. As I mentioned, the rest are compositions
from the three guitarplayers and a beatiful cover of an ornette coleman
tune. The best song on the album is where Chadbourne brought in one of
his country songs (not his freaked out style, but the Frisell Nashvill
style).
So, get that album

- --
Stefan Verstraeten
NP Chadbourne 'Jungle Cookies'.... this is amazing, a double cd filled
with completly nutty people.... I dig this stuff.....

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:44:42 +0200 (MET DST)
From: FJG_Lamerikx <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ???

Taylor wrote:

> [on Photek]

> _Form & Function_ serves nicely as an introduction to Parkes' style and
> does give one a sense of how his work has changed over time by way of
> including the original versions of "Rings Around Saturn", "UFO" and "The
> Seven Samurai"; unfortunately, it also includes a bunch of recent (I think)
> remixes of this same material at the beginning of the disc which make for a
> good forty-five of same-sounding drudgery. While I absolutely love his
> clinical approach to rhythm, this is definitely a release that I can't
> listen to all the way through... I'd recommend that prospective listeners
> start out with just about any 12" that he has released (I'm partial to "The
> Hidden Camera", personally... conveniently and cheaply available on CD) and
> maybe his more-diverse-than-usual _Modus Operandi_ before trying to slog
> through almost eighty minutes of one set of drum sounds.

I definitely agree with you here. I stopped by to listen to the album
yesterday. The two new tracks (Santiago and Knitevision) are absolutely
brilliant, unparalleled mastery of restraint in beatism. The old tracks are,
of course, brilliant, but I already own the 12"-es. The remixes, including
the one Photek himself did of "Seven Samurai", are no good. I have a problem
with them anyway, since I don't think you can really improve on the originals.
So I'd stick with your recommendation to try out some of the 12"-es first.
The "Modus Operandi" 12" would be nice as well, especially since it features
the fantasticly sparse non-album track "Yendl" on the B-side. Plus, the A-side
can be played at both 33 rpm (laid-back jazz) and 45 rpm (mellow junglish)
(for vinyl-owners only).

Frankco.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:48:06 +0200 (MET DST)
From: FJG_Lamerikx <[e-mail]>
Subject: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???)

> > I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he has done
> > some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic "Quadrant Six"
> > track which he did with Optical.
>
>    Why not try the new "Mysteries of Funk" by Grooverider
>    (also with Optical as engineer). Seventies Miles Davis-fusion
>    (dark, no Squarepusher fender rhodes mellowness) with killer bass
>    and twisted beats.
>
>    Drum'n'Bass record of the year (I admit I haven't heard the new

I don't, and have never, liked Grooverider's style. The Dom+Roland I was
referring to above is very good. The opening track puts the whole No-U-Turn
camp, plus the DHR camp, to shame. Very nice stereo effects in the beginning.
Dom Angas is trying his hand at two-step, but for the first time ever I like
what someone has done with this idiotic reduction in style. So I'd recommend
this album.

Frankco.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:24:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Livingston <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ill from music

>From: Matthew Moffett <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Ill from music
>
>i never know if
>> this and recounts of japanese musicians working with tonal experiments
>>to make
>> the listeners loose certain bodily controls are true or just high brow urban
>> myths.
>>
>> -
>I don't know about japanese musicians, but I remember from my studio
>classes in college watching a video about a professor at Harvard doing
>studies of the effects of extreme high and low frequencies. I
>specifically remember him saying extreme low end causes the loss of
>bowel control, because I ended up stealing that tidbit for a short
>story.  I also remember, though, that the average speaker system would
>be incapable of reproducing the tones.


There is an interesting set of reprinted articles on experiments in the
effects of Infrasound (subsonic frequencies), how to construct an
Infrasonic generator, use of Infrasound as a weapon, an interview/
discussion between William Burroughs and Jimmy Page on the topic, etc.  in
the first (and possibly only) edition of the AMOK Journal (published by the
AMOK book store/publishing house(?) in L.A.).

 Not sure of the ISBN but any place that carries the RE/Search books is
likely to have this book in the same section, if they carry it.

- -James

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:17:31 +0200
From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne

Anyone going to Ribot y los Cubanos tomorrow at Vooruit, Gent ?

YVes


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:41:23 +0100
From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Buckethead CD

Hi Tim (yes, another belgian on the lists) and other listmembers,

I tried the website you mentioned, but as you can see, the site
definitly needs a huge update.

NP Merzbow: Mort Aux Vaches (Staalplaat Recordings). Harsh noise based
on home made metals... what a sound

Schelfhout Tim wrote:
> Maybe check out http://www.bucketheadland.com

> > From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
> > At 02:35 PM 10/20/98 +0100, Stefan Verstraeten wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >I noticed the new cd by Buckethead (Cobra Strike)
> > >Does anyone know the recordlabel or -even better- does someone know
> > how
> > >the album sounds like, who plays on it, ...
> >
> > I just posted on this on the Laswell list.  I will put the information
> > at
> > the web site in the next few days.
> >
> > It will be on Ion.
> > Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/
Stefan Verstraeten

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:50:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thurston's label

On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

> Father Yod, as I recall, is Byron Coley's imprint.  Thurston's indie label
> is/was called Ecstatic Peace.  When they did that series of "Ass Run" vinyl
> slabs together it was Ecstatic Yod.  But the Sire imprint bears a different
> name altogther... seems as if it might have been a three-letter name but I'm
> completely spacing on it.  Perhaps when I've got more time and energy - I
> just got home from a three-day business trip - I'll do a search on the CMJ
> site, as perhaps it's archived somewhere (that's where I read the news in the
> first place).

thurston and byron's collective reissue label is called k'ey.  allegedly
their first reissues will be coming out sometime in early 1999.  i heard
something about a sonny sharrock reissue.

I I
 I I
b

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:06:13 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus

On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:27:43 -0400 (EDT)  David Newgarden wrote:
>
> > LOCUS SOLUS is the only document of Zorn's attempt to do free improv (at least
> > his form of) with some rock elements. I guess Zorn might have agreed with you
> > because it is not only the first, it is also the last.
> Au contraire Patrice - Painkiller has been one one of his longest-running
> projects...and is in a sense simply another Locus Solus free-rock trio,
> no?

If you were right, nobody with an interest in (death/heavy metal/etc) rock
would dig Pain Killer. The improv in LOCUS SOLUS is of a different kind that
the one in Pain Killer. Hey, if adding improv and rock would create the same
product, we could even compare Henry Cow to Pain Killer :-).

Pain Killer = load of rock + improv
Locus Solus = free improv + snippets of rock

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:23:06 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Locus Solus

On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:01:32 -0400  Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love of
> Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album that
> may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red Meat".

He almost completely disappeared after the release of BROOKLYN in 1987
(at least from a record point of view, the only one I can really follow
leaving so far from NY).

I remember asking Kathy Acker, 3/4 years ago, what he was up to and she
said that she had never heard anything from him or his music (but she
might had some reasons not to...).

Anyway, he has been back on the record market thanks to the Italian
label New Tone. They reissued the two LOLO records, and put out three new
ones (LENINGRAD-XPRESS, STILL LIFE & THE DEAD MAN, and QUARTET). His last
record, to my knowledge, was THE YELLOW BOX with David Cunningham (1996).

    Patrice (who maintains a secret Peter Gordon discography).

PS: and David van Tieghem? Any clue what happened to him?
PPS: it would not hurt if Lovely Music decided to reissue STAR JAWS...

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 98 10:43:25 -0500
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus

     Joe wrote:

>Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love
>of Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album
>that may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red
>Meat".

     They did a reunion concert of sorts a coupla years back at Merkin Hall
     which I saw. Pretty disappointing. They essentially ran through the
     'Geneve' repertoire, reproducing the songs virtually exactly,
     appearing rather bored. I didn't understand the point; could've simply
     played the record on stage to the same effect.

     Gordon's releases under his own name since LOLO's demise I've also
     found pretty worthless. Van Tieghem's too, for that matter. Sometime
     after the release of 'Geneve', Gordon briefly had a big band that I
     saw at La Mama (probably around 1982). Great group, with Lenny
     Pickett, Peter Zummo and a pre-fame Buster Poindexter, among others.
     They put out a nice cassette, but that was that.

     I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person.

     Brian Olewnick
     (hoping to catch Zorn at Merkin tonight)



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Duricko <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Portsmouth Sinfonia

On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Lang Thompson wrote:

> Does anybody know if any of their albums have been released on CD?

As far as I know, no!

Jeff
(hoping to get a copy of one of their albums off of his music history
prof.)

                    "Kick the bagel!  Kick it!  KICK IT!!!"
                  http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657   ICQ#3883353



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:01:48 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sign of Four

In a message dated 10/20/98 7:19:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> I couldn't make it through the first ten seconds of each track.
>  Periodically, I take that thing off the shelf and say, "Well, I haven't
>  listened to 99% of this yet..."  I put it on and I've barely stepped
>  away from the stereo when...ugghhhhhh!  Stop! Stop!  For the love of God,
>  turn it off!!!
>  I take it off and replace it on the shelf.  I am in a sort of cold war with
>  that release.  Any long confrontation would result in mutually assured
>  destruction.
>
>  David "Sign of Four is plain old awful" K.

Sounds great, thanks for the glowing review!

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 15:36:54 -0400
From: Taylor McLaren <[e-mail]>
Subject: Interesting Photek and meat.

...and once again, Frankco wrote:
>So I'd stick with your recommendation to try out some of the 12"-es first.
>The "Modus Operandi" 12" would be nice as well, especially since it features
>the fantasticly sparse non-album track "Yendl" on the B-side.
Funny you should mention this... as a result of your comments, I spent most
of last night listening to the bulk of his recent output, and the "Modus
Operandi" single was the first thing that I had on (and it stayed in the CD
player for a whole lot longer than any other title). Between it and "The
Hidden Camera", people have got a pretty good idea of what the guy is
capable of producing. It's probably cheaper to buy the album than it would
be to pick up two singles, but missing out on "Hybrid" would be almost
inexcusable... "Yendi" is pretty slick, too.

In other not-quite-hip-hop news, I've got Meat Beat Manifesto's _Satyricon_
playing right now, and people with a soft spot for Depeche Mode-ish vocals
could do a whole lot worse than to look into this one. I'm always amazed by
his choice of oddball samples, and there's a fantastic low-key groove to
most of these tracks that I haven't felt in any of his releases since
(though "Phone Calls from the Dead" on _Subliminal Sandwich_ was groovy as
all hell).
  Yes, this is profound commentary.

- -me (does Jack ever do DJ spots anywhere?)


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V2 #508
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