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1998-10-21
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #509
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, October 22 1998 Volume 02 : Number 509
In this issue:
-
new Tzadik batch?
jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus
Re: new Tzadik batch?
Re: tzadik site
re: jazz/fusion
Re: new Tzadik batch?
re: jazz/fusion
Re: Re: Ill from music
jz's "music for children
London help
Re: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???)
Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne
Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
Re[2]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus
David Shea shows
Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 16:54:20 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: new Tzadik batch?
Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch?
Patrice (waiting for the Coleman and the Massacre).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:00:02 -0800
From: Anish Kejariwal <anishk@jps.net>
Subject: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
>Squarepusher. Whereas he is probably the most out-there drum programmer on
>the planet, his tracks tend to be the modern-day equivalent of the point where
>jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies.
In hopes of starting another cool tangent...can someone recommend some good
jazz/fusion. Any specific albums or musicians? I'm guessing Miles Davis
is a good place to start...
I guess what Frankco means by "jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies"
is that it too heavily concentrated and focused on technique, and this
resulted in stale, emotionless music. Any thing I should be aware of so I
know what to look for and what to avoid?
thanks in advance.
Anish
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:22:26 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus
On Wed, 21 Oct 98 10:43:25 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote:
>
> They did a reunion concert of sorts a coupla years back at Merkin Hall
> which I saw. Pretty disappointing. They essentially ran through the
> 'Geneve' repertoire, reproducing the songs virtually exactly,
> appearing rather bored. I didn't understand the point; could've simply
> played the record on stage to the same effect.
That's also my impression of QUARTET, his relatively recent LOLO record on
New Tone: like something in your fridge that has passed the limit date...
And I am (was) a big fan of LOLO!!!
> Gordon's releases under his own name since LOLO's demise I've also
> found pretty worthless. Van Tieghem's too, for that matter. Sometime
I disagree with you on that statement. INNOCENT is a varied and upbeat
record, and if you like LOLO, this one should not disappoint you. But because
LOLO kind of never died, maybe you stretch the "since LOLO's demise" more
than I assume :-).
> after the release of 'Geneve', Gordon briefly had a big band that I
> saw at La Mama (probably around 1982). Great group, with Lenny
> Pickett, Peter Zummo and a pre-fame Buster Poindexter, among others.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't you mean "post-fame David Johansen" :-).
> They put out a nice cassette, but that was that.
^^^^^^^^^^
Are you talking of:
023 - SECRET PASTURES (Ballet Suite): Peter Gordon/Love Of Life Orchestra
1984 - Artservices (CT)
BTW, the music here is not very different from the one available on
INNOCENT.
Concerning David Van Tieghem, I also disagree with Brian (when he says:
no good records after LOLO).
There were three records that I played non-stop in 1985:
*** - FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (1985 - Moers Music)
*** - ENVY: Arto Lindsay/Ambitious Lovers (1984 - Editions EG Records)
*** - THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (1984 - Warner Bros. Records)
THESE THINGS HAPPEN is a fantastic and luscious record. Lot of percussions
and electronics to produce a wide variety of landscapes. The music is so
expressive that each song triggers a different feeling. It seems like
every note on this record has been premeditated, and that very little room
has been left to slopiness. Could it be what bother you?
Also, this is not a drummer record at all! In fact, it is more like a
record of electronic music.
> I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person.
What do you mean by that? Where have you seen this name?
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:17:38 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: new Tzadik batch?
On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch?
>
> Patrice (waiting for the Coleman and the Massacre).
i see it right in my hands. thanks CDNow!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:39:02 -0700 (MST)
From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: tzadik site
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, m. rizzi wrote:
> Jason Tors, demi-God and Icon sez:
> >I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of
> >this site.
>
> I'm curious, in your opinion what are the problems
there are entirely too many loose ends and inconsistencies. mostly on the news
section, where there's excessive information given for tours or week long gigs
with the same personnel/specifications for each night, rather than just
listing th group once and then listing the dates and locations. and what's
with alphabetizing it by first names? and what's with listing at least half
what's there under the "urgent news" ? and what's with not updating the list
of cds that each person in the news section plays on. and what's with these
already disgraceful "updates" taking place once every 2 or 3 months? and
what's with using whatever format they used for the bulletin board that allows
all the bullshit to get posted automatically....forcing them to take it off
the website because it just wasnt worth it for anyone to say anything
significant anymore since there was so much ridiculous garbage.
> and how do you think they should be solved?
simple and logical maintenance! it doesnt seem like such a difficult task,
especially when i emailed tzadik@tzadik.com asking them to provide more
information on the Masada west coast shows and some other various things on
the news page and it was updated the next day. but why should we need to ask?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 18:46:37 -0700
From: "ADM" <ameyers@concentric.net>
Subject: re: jazz/fusion
I'd reccomend some Return to Forever (Chick Corea's fusion band). All I own
of them is a 2 disc anthology released on verve a couple years ago but its
great. Stanley Clarke plays bass on both discs and is pretty incredible.
Al Di Meola plays guitar on the second disc and its just about the only Al
Di Meola I actually like. Oh yea... I was the person you were gonna trade
with for the Rubber City tape. E-mail me.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:19:46 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: new Tzadik batch?
On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch?
The new Massacre is currently kicking my ass as we speak...well worth the
18 year wait between albums...hell, I was 3 years old when the first one
came out :)
The John Zorn album appears to have been delayed, at least here in the
U.S....I saw the new Gisburg disc at Tower.
BTW, the November batch of Tzadiks includes new albums by Alvin Curran,
Death Praxis (Ikue Mori & Tenko), David Shea, London/Skambler/Caine and
Annie Gosfield.
Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,
Paul
psaudino@interaccess.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:23:59 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: re: jazz/fusion
i guess u would kinda need i sing the body electric by weather report. if u
wanna check out jazz/fusion, its probably kinda mandatory.
of course, this assumes u already have bitches brew by miles davis...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 02:27:56 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Ill from music
when i worked at a studio, my friend would crank up the 20 khz when he was
biasing a 2 track and it would make my teeth feel funny. thanx to fletcher-
munson, u have to completely blast the frequencies at either end of the
spectrum to hear them, but damn can they do funny things to you.
also, i think the cilia responsible for receiving the higher freqs are more
fragile, so they are the first to go. and, if yr interested, the resonant freq
of the ear canal is around 3-4 khz...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:27:07 +0000
From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li>
Subject: jz's "music for children
hi fellow zornsters
lucky me. i thought i'd still have to wait for a few weeks after what
tzadik's swiss distributor had told me ten days ago. but - i got my copy
of jz's "music for children" this morning.
here are my first impressions:
1. fils des etoiles - performed by a. coleman/baptista
very sweet. coleman's celeste sounds excellent. baptista offers another
rhythmically great performance. and some nice, weird "singing"... -
music for children!
2. this way out - performed by lacamoire/wendell/johnson/sanesi/hudgins
this is the first of the tracks advertised as "naked city style
compositions". and that is exactly what it sounds like. although one can
hear that it is not performed by naked city. the overall sound of this
lineup is totally different to nc. music for children?
3. music for children - performed by abel/steinberg/winant
i'd seen this performed live, so i knew what to expect. - most of the
music is very quiet and "nice", but there are parts that are more hectic
& dissonant. the combination of piano/violin/percussion is not really my
cup of tea. winant's performance is great, and the percussion part i can
get into. the violin doesn't do it for me, the "plinky plonky" piano
neither. overall this is not the kind of classical music i'm usually
into. music for children?
4. bikini atoll
5. bone crusher - same lineup as on "this way out" plus jz
these are the other two tracks advertised as "naked city style
compositions". comment: see track 2. music for children?
6. dreamer of dreams - performed by ribot/friedlander/cohen
this is very laidback, and if you picture ribot/friedlander/cohen
playing together you'll be able to imagine what it sounds like. reminds
me of a track off of one of the filmworks cds. but do i care? not
really, since i love ribot's guitarplaying so much! music for children!?
7. cycles du nord (dedicated to edgard var=E8se) - performed by: zorn
over 20 minutes long. very atmospheric, ambient... and definitely weird.
some highpitched sounds start creeping in after about six minutes that
were almost too much for my ears to bear. zorn performed this on three
wind machines and two acoustic feedback systems, so you get the picture!
(my friend just said that cycles du nord reminds him of the residents'
eskimo lp.) music for children?
8. sooki's lullaby - performed by a. coleman
performed on a celeste music box. a sweet lullaby. very calming,
relaxing... - music for children!
i'd recommend this cd to anyone who appreciates zorn's classical
compositions; and to those who are into "torture garden" because of
tracks 2, 4 and 5. after having listened to the entire cd only once i
can't say if i'll play this very often, but it's definitely one of those
cds you have to sit down and listen to. can't really imagine it as
background music (except for tracks 1, 6 and 8).
looking forward to other people's reviews!
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:17:11 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: London help
so, I'm making my first trip ever to London the first week in November, and
I'm looking for record store suggestions and concert info, if anyone out there
has any. I'll be there from the 1st through the 8th. thanks, Jon.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:11:17 PDT
From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???)
I can only second the recommendation for the Dom & roland album. Great
soundz !! Can someone reflect on them a little. Like What other releases
do they have ...
- ----Original Message Follows----
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:48:06 +0200 (MET DST)
From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com>
Reply-To: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com>
Subject: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???)
To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> > I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he
has done
> > some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic
"Quadrant Six"
> > track which he did with Optical.
>
> Why not try the new "Mysteries of Funk" by Grooverider
> (also with Optical as engineer). Seventies Miles Davis-fusion
> (dark, no Squarepusher fender rhodes mellowness) with killer bass
> and twisted beats.
>
> Drum'n'Bass record of the year (I admit I haven't heard the new
I don't, and have never, liked Grooverider's style. The Dom+Roland I was
referring to above is very good. The opening track puts the whole
No-U-Turn
camp, plus the DHR camp, to shame. Very nice stereo effects in the
beginning.
Dom Angas is trying his hand at two-step, but for the first time ever I
like
what someone has done with this idiotic reduction in style. So I'd
recommend
this album.
Frankco.
- -
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:38:04 PDT
From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne
Sorry,
went last night in Brussels at the Beursschouwburg. It was amazingly
great. Especially the way Ribot announced the group : " we are the
lonesome zorro's of punkcuban music".
Verry interesting, sometimes reminded me of Tackhead stuff ??
The band had to come back 3 times satisfy the needs of the crowd!!
In short it was awesome! I wonder if the CD is equally good
See ya
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 05:53:46 PDT
From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
>In hopes of starting another cool tangent...can someone recommend some
good
>jazz/fusion. Any specific albums or musicians? I'm guessing Miles
Davis is a good place to start...
You betcha !! Check out "Bitches brew" "Phantalassa" (also the Laswell
remixes!!)"Live evil" ...
Also worth checking out are Herbie Hancock "Headhunters", "Mwandishi",
"Secrets", "Sextant", "Thrust", ...
Joe Henderson "Terra firma", "las palmas"
and of course Weather report, ...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 08:39:30 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus
Patrice wrote:
>I disagree with you on that statement. INNOCENT is a varied and upbeat
>record, and if you like LOLO, this one should not disappoint you. But
>because LOLO kind of never died, maybe you stretch the "since LOLO's demise"
>more than I assume :-).
Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree here. Gordon always, IMHO, had a bit of a
slick quality to his playing and composing but, early on in work like 'Extended
Niceties', juxtaposed it successfully with abrasive and noise elements (you
know, back when "post-modern" was fresh ;-)). With 'Innocent' and then
'Brooklyn', he crossed the line to these ears. BTW, another fine album w/Gordon
and his crowd from around this time was 'Music from Antarctica, Vol. 1 (never a
Vol 2?). Ned Sublette's 'I Ain't Afraid of Girls' remains an all-time fave.
>023 - SECRET PASTURES (Ballet Suite): Peter Gordon/Love Of Life Orchestra
>1984 - Artservices (CT)
>BTW, the music here is not very different from the one available on
>INNOCENT.
I think that's the one (my cassettes, in defiance of the rest of my
collection, are scattered in a drawer somewhere). If so, I'd
crystallize my case by comparing versions of 'This Hat' from the two.
To these ears, the cassette version is far superior.
>Concerning David Van Tieghem, I also disagree with Brian (when he says:
>no good records after LOLO).
>*** - FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (1985 - Moers Music)
>*** - ENVY: Arto Lindsay/Ambitious Lovers (1984 - Editions EG Records)
Both fine records, but more for the principal's contributions (any fans of
Chatham's incredible 'Die Donnergotter' here? Any recs on his recent work?). I
have no problems with Van Tieghem's drumming, but I haven't been crazy about the
stuff out under his own name. Though I do have fond memories of that video of
DVT drumming his way down West Broadway.
>*** - THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (1984 - Warner Bros. Records)
>THESE THINGS HAPPEN is a fantastic and luscious record. Lot of
>percussions and electronics to produce a wide variety of landscapes. The
>music is so expressive that each song triggers a different feeling. It
>seems like every note on this record has been premeditated, and that very
>little room has been left to slopiness. Could it be what bother you?
I remember hearing this and not being impressed, but the one I have from
around then is 'Safety in Numbers' which gets way too far over towards a
newagey ambiance for my tastes. Again, I'd be curious about any of his
more recent work.
>>I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person.
>What do you mean by that? Where have you seen this name?
Sorry, perhaps that's too cynical, but Gordon's mid 80's work doesn't
strike me as all that far from what you hear backing late night talk
hosts.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:22:07 +0200
From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl>
Subject: David Shea shows
Hi all!
I'm glad to announce two shows of David Shea in the University's
Theatre USVA in Groningen, The Netherlands.
November 14: video-art documentary Dial H.I.S.T.O.R.Y. with the
soundtrack performed live by David Shea
November 15: New solo works for sampler - Premieres.
Both shows start at 21.30 and the entrance fee is fl. 12,50.
Jeroen de Boer
music director
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:29:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org>
Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop)
On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Tim Schelfhout wrote:
> Also worth checking out are Herbie Hancock "Headhunters", "Mwandishi",
> "Secrets", "Sextant", "Thrust", ...
> Joe Henderson "Terra firma", "las palmas"
> and of course Weather report, ...
weather report? return to forever? fuck that crap! hancock's
_sextant_, miles davis' _on the corner_ and tony williams' lifetime
_emergency_ are the *raw* fusion. three amazing records that valued
genre-busting over proficiency.
b
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #509
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