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1998-10-18
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V2 #505
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, October 19 1998 Volume 02 : Number 505
In this issue:
-
Locus Solus
Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit
Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
Jane Cortez
Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor
Re: The book of heads
RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
Re: Jane Cortez
Re: Jane Cortez
RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
Re: Locus Solus
Re: Locus Solus
Naked City style jumps
RE: Locus Solus
Carl Stalling Project vol. 3?
Re[2]: Locus Solus
Re: Naked City style jumps
Re: Re: Naked City style jumps
Re: Naked City style jumps
Re: Naked City style jumps
| edward ZEIZEL |
Re[2]: Naked City style jumps
winter winter
Hikaru Hayashi
tzadik site
Re: Naked City style jumps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:38 +0200
From: Cerato Marco <g5003725@uts.univ.trieste.it>
Subject: Locus Solus
I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS".
Thank you in advance,
Marco
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:46:34 +0000
From: Dan Kuehn <smokey@maui.net>
Subject: Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit
Hey, I saw, or sort of saw, and heard Glenn B on the knet, i mean the
net. The RealAudio is a real challenge, but it serves to give us in the
hinterlands a glimpse, even if through a glass darkly. And when it
works and when it's good, it can be pretty good.
Glenn had some interesting comments before the first show. Apparently
in response to the Zorn incident (where he pulled the plug on the camera
after realizing it's ALWAYS on), there's now a sign in the Main Stage
dressing room that sez something to the effect "performers are advised
to refrain from personal conversation onstage" ... I guess one might
say music is a kind of personal conversation...
He then addressed all the people squinting at that little picture on the
computer screen and putting up with the poor audio (that's me)-- He
said, "Get a life!"
Actually, it wasn't bad, I'd never heard'im before
All noise no melody, but rich and changing all the time two guitars &
percussion, I think, but the picture really was bad.
I did tape, tho...
- --
Dan Kuehn
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 07:44:50 -0400
From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org>
Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
>I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a
>composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the
>archives.
Yes, he said this to me at a pre-concert discussion here. The question
asked was how he compared his own sweeping genre interests to those the
likes of John Zorn and Bill Frisell. It's also interesting that Mr. Byron
said Bill's (and Joey Baron, for that matter) interest in other genres was
really brought about by Zorn, that Frisell was a fairly straight-ahead
player before he met Zorn.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | |
| | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | |
| | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:08:10 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be>
Subject: Jane Cortez
Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez?
> >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it
> >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is
> >wonderful stuff.
> >
> >-Mary
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 23:10:10 -0400
From: philz <zampino@squidco.com>
Subject: Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor
Steve Smith wrote:
>
>If you can find "Haiku Lingo" by Hirsch and Weinstein, that's a fine one, but
>it took me years to track down.
I'm kind of late getting back on this one, but Hirsch and Weinstein's
"Haiku Lingo" was recently reissued on rere on cd. You might want to check
dmg/verge/cuneiform to see if they have a copy, it's definitely worth
having!
philz
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 10:15:40 EDT
From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu>
Subject: Re: The book of heads
>
> hi, im a new member of the list. i have just recieved the score to book of
> heads from zorn and am about to start working on it/studying it. anyone else
> have experience with it? i'd love to hear from you.
When Marc Ribot performed it in Richmond, he went through the score
with me after the show and Ribot basically said it dosnt make too much
sense without zorn sitting with you to explain it. Do you feel the
same. The score is written in a manner that can be taken with many
different interpretations. Do you think that was intended or do you
think zorn is adament about having his music played the way he wants
it to be played?
- -Mary
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:33:08 -0400
From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net>
Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
"a leader of men"
Don't they say the same about Ellington and Zappa.
jeff Kent
hijk@gateway.net
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:22:25 -0500 (CDT)
From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com>
Subject: Re: Jane Cortez
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Geert Buelens wrote:
> Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez?
Yes.
> > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it
> > >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is
> > >wonderful stuff.
Paul
psaudino@interaccess.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:13:41 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com>
Subject: Re: Jane Cortez
The compulsive preefreader in me notes that she spells her name "Jayne",
not "Jane". (Useful to know if you're doing a Web search on her name.)
- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:48:11 -0400
From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com>
Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
I agree (although I don't mean to discount his
talent as a composer). Zorn really brings out
the best in people! And he has enough good
sense to more or less let them do their thing.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Zitt [SMTP:jzitt@humansystems.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 17, 1998 2:36 PM
> To: Risser Family
> Cc: 'zorn-list@lists.xmission.com'
> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing
>
> Risser Family wrote:
> > I think that's why Zorn's stuff is so great, not just because his
> talents as a player and a composer, but as a... producer? Gatherer?
> Something like that.
>
> I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a
> composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the
> archives.
>
> --
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \|||
> ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
> |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
>
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Locus Solus
In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote:
>I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS".
>Thank you in advance,
>
>
> Marco
it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a
jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to
describe
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 08:57:46 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Locus Solus
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT Sulacco@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote:
>
> >I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS".
> >Thank you in advance,
> >
> >
> > Marco
>
> it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a
> jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to
> describe
One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing
terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense improv
with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart.
Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20.
Patrice.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:16:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu>
Subject: Naked City style jumps
In exmanining the Naked City output you would find that more often than not. A
steady style is maintained throuought the song. Most of the self titled disc
maintains whatever style is introduced at the beginning of the song. as does a
good portion of torture garden, All of Leng T'che, Absinthe, Heretic, and (with
the exception of the title track) Grand Guignol. So, if you like Naked City's
jump-cut style. I'd say go with the Self-titled disc, Torture Garden and Radio.
Most everything else though is pretty consistent. I guess it's just tunes like
Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike most listeners as the "naked city
sound".
jeff
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:49:12 -0400
From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net>
Subject: RE: Locus Solus
I love the new liner notes for this album.
Zorn says, "I was totally convinced that this was going to 'hit the
charts'. What charts? On Mars? I guess I've never been too in touch with
the marketplace."
Jeff Kent
hijk@gateway.net
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:51:13 -0400
From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net>
Subject: Carl Stalling Project vol. 3?
Does anyone know if there will be a Vol. 3 in the Carl Stalling Project
series?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 13:11:02 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Locus Solus
Patrice wrote:
>One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing
>terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense
>improv with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart.
>Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20.
Curious. While, as Steve's fond of pointing out, your mileage may
vary, I find 'Locus Solus' to be of far greater historical value than
strictly musical. It was actually the first Zorn record I ever bought;
I'd heard him as sideman with others, including the Palominos and
Frank Lowe, but this was my first exposure to his own conception. At
the time (around 1984-5?), I thought it was an interesting,
potentially promising, variation on things by DNA and other "No Wave"
bands, perhaps with freer improv and clearly with a strong, guiding
intelligence at work. Certainly, there are many "seeds" of Zorn's
later development in evidence here, but it strikes me that, shortly
thereafter, due to his exposure to the wonders of the recording studio
when doing the Monk and Weill tributes and/or simply a rapid
maturation as an artist, he shifted gears drastically (and, IMHO,
productively).
I happened to listen to 'Locus Solus' last week, and still find that,
to me, some pieces work pretty well (much of Sides C & D on the LP),
others sound immaturely experimental, in the manner of much of his
(and his cohorts') work of the late 70's and early 80's. I understand
that there is a tendency for backlash against an artist who's achieved
some level of success (Zorn's been around long enough for at least two
of these by now, I would think) and the nostalgia for that golden
pre-notoriety era (not accusing you of this, Patrice--I strongly
respect your judgment....usually ;-)). I caught a healthy dollop of
this genre of improv in the late 70's by many of JZ's crowd and for
every instance of something gelling, there were 9 or 10 would-be avant
posturings (seems a reasonable, not unexpected ratio, actually).
'Locus Solus' seems a mixed bag to me, music-wise. Worth hearing,
definitely, for understanding the ground from which Zorn emerged; not
earth-shaking otherwise. The difference between documentary
fascination and musical depth.
Just my two centavos. Others will surely pillory me.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:22:47 -0400
From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett)
Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps
At 1:16 PM 10/19/98, Jeff Gretz wrote:
> I guess it's just tunes like Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike
>most listeners as the "naked city
> sound".
It's funny (and I know in the past we've had simliar threads to what I'm
about to write), but even though those are the tunes that most people seem
to dig Naked City for, they tend to be my least favorite Naked City tunes
to actually listen to.
I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually
put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already
hearing it once or more.........
just my 2 cents more
- -Chris
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:30:07 EDT
From: Sulacco@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps
In a message dated 10/19/98 14:25:17, you wrote:
>I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually
>put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already
>hearing it once or more.........
if we're taking a poll, count me as one who listens to torture garden all the
way through rather frequently..
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 13:39:37 -0500
From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps
At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually
>put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already
>hearing it once or more.........
>
I for one listen to it quite often. I've found that the first time you
listen to the songs on Torture Garden you are overwhelmed by the force of
them. The more you listen to them, though, the more you can hear the
actual nuances of the songs.
I find now that I prefer to listen to it all the way through, as one
complete piece. This is why I have a hard time listening to the last third
of Grand Guignol - it's missing some of the songs which makes the listening
experience incomplete.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 14:48:53 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps
At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, Chris Barrett wrote:
>I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually
>put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already
>hearing it once or more.........
I listen to the first NC album the most often, as it has a large variety of
different kinds of music, from the thrash to the movie themes, etc. Next,
I listen to Absinthe, mostly because I'm listening more and more to drones
and electroacoustic improv (like Morphogenesis or the recent Parker EA
ensemble), and Absinthe seems to fit into that category. Periodically I
listen to all the NC albums in rapid succession, just to remind myself what
a great body of work it is as a whole (except for Leng T'che, which is just
too difficult to get through).
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
Computers are useless; they can only give you answers
- -- Pablo Picasso
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:11:05 -0400
From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com>
Subject: | edward ZEIZEL |
I am trying to regain electronic contact with said person, please ignore if
not applicable.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 14:56:55 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Re[2]: Naked City style jumps
Caleb:
>(except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through).
Arrggh! My favorite NC piece! One of my very favorite JZ pieces,
too--aims for a particular, if none too pleasant, target, nails it to
the wall and sustains.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:28:16 -0400
From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com>
Subject: winter winter
Does Winter Winter have a web info page?
I want to find out about where they came from.
JT
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 13:42:02 -0500
From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu
Subject: Hikaru Hayashi
(non-Zorn content, but I'd be amazed if JZ wasn't aware of the movie
and soundtracked referenced below)
Rented and viewed the Japanese movie 'Onibaba' this weekend, a
wonderful, brutal work from 1964 (directed by Kaneto Shindo). What
there is of a score is largely confined to the opening credits, but it
consists of a startling, fine free jazz piece (tenor, piano, bass and
drums, I think) that would stack up well with what was going on in the
US at the time. Doubly striking in that the movie's story takes place
during an undefined but apparently pre-European contact era. The score
is credited to one Hikaru Hayashi. Anyone know anything about this
guy? A quick Alta Vista search garnered some mention of classically
oriented pieces by him, but no listing of recordings or of any
jazz-oriented involvement.
Thanks.
Brian Olewnick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 15:45:49 -0400
From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com>
Subject: tzadik site
I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of
this site. Since JZ does not play at the knit anymore, he should break away
from knitmedia and have someone host/maintain who will do the job
correctly.
Am I alone in my observations about the Tzadik site?
It could still be enigmatic, just more functional.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 16:23:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Duricko <jad5657@is4.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps
On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Chris Barrett wrote:
> I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually
> put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already
> hearing it once or more.........
Funny you should mention that, as I was just having this exact same
conversation the other day with one of my friends. Yes, I would be
included in the group who listens to it all the way through, but the other
way I listen to it is with the shuffle as it remains to this day the only
album I listen to where I will actually do that. On most other recordings
I own, I would consider that heresy, but Torture Garden just screams to be
meddled with. And that actually plays a large role in why I do listen to
it so often.
Nyah,
Jeff
"Kick the bagel! Kick it! KICK IT!!!"
http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657 ICQ#3883353
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V2 #505
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